Vanessa McCoy Back Squats (245 for 10)

Training Powerlifting
41

[quote]Paperclip wrote:

[quote]Koing wrote:

Do you do any dips? If not I would do some dips as long as you have the required flexibility to rack a Clean properly which I’m guessing you have :slight_smile:

Koing[/quote]

What’s dip good for? And should we train the pecs if flexibility isn’t a problem?[/quote]

Protecting your elbows and for overall strength. I would get a lifter to do this for 3-4yrs (maybe more depending on age of lifter), maybe throughout the lifetime of the lifter. It’s not hugely important but it’s an exercise to do after lifting, squats [insert 1 strength exercise].

I’d do one pec exercise a week if flexibility isn’t an issue. If flexibility is an issue ditch the pec stuff. The person has more pressing matters.

[quote]brian.m wrote:
thanks Koing, do you prescribe deloads, or just man(/woman up for Alexus) up?[/quote]

Take the 4th session easier as in drop the volume to only do 3-4reps x 4-5sets. The decrease from 6reps x6sets makes a big difference.

Koing

42

[quote]debraD wrote:

[quote]Koing wrote:

[quote]debraD wrote:
Koing, how advantageous is upper body strength? Most of the female lifters I’ve been seeing videos of of course have the great legs but they don’t show a lot of shoulder or arm size. (Yet I was doing a bunch of c&j and snatches yesterday and my rear delts and traps are feeling it!)[/quote]

Do some pull ups, dips and a few curls every so often so you don’t injure yourself if you don’t catch weights in an ideal way. I’d do at least once strength exercise after squats each session. You don’t need to go overboard. IMO it’s a good way to prevent injuries. Your traps will ALAWYS feel if if you haven’t lifted for a while or put extra focus on it as they are suppose to be used in the OLifts. Delts are sore for some other reason, was the bar in front of you on the Jerks or Snatches?

Don’t be scared about posting videos. My lifts 11yrs ago was pretty ragged :stuck_out_tongue:

Koing[/quote]

One of my issues has been keeping the bar close and with my jerks I had a bad habit of pressing the weight. I think that’s where my delt fatigue might be coming from.

I think I need lots reps but I can’t feel it without some weight on the bar. I guess that is going to mean fatigue, doing it wrong, repeatedly! :smiley:

At this point where I am working on form, is it a mistake to do some cleans or snatches every day? I want to reinforce it right away when I feel I’ve clicked with it so I don’t want to go days without doing some more.[/quote]

When you mean lots of reps, how many? It’s more producitve to say limit to 2-3Jerks and do more sets instead.

Have you tried a Jerk balance (or whatever it’s called)? Jerk with your front foot out in front, dip and drive and only move your front foot. Your rear foot stays where it is. But be sure to bend the back knee and have the heel up as high as possible do the fore foot of your foot is bent.

On the Jerks, put some weight on the bar. Just don’t go crazy. Can you lock out your arms properly at the top of a Jerk? Get some videos, as it’s easier to see.

It’s fine to Snatch/ Clean daily, just don’t go crazy with the weights. Remember on your training days you want to be able to put up some moderate weight.

Koing

43

[quote]Koing wrote:

[quote]Paperclip wrote:

What’s dip good for? And should we train the pecs if flexibility isn’t a problem?[/quote]

Protecting your elbows and for overall strength.

Koing[/quote]

Sorry if I ask too many questions, but how could dips protect your elbows? A similar question was asked why the Chinese do bicep curls and it’s said that they do that in order to protect the elbows. So stronger bicep and tricep muscle = stronger elbows?

44

thanks again Koing

Paperclip, from my understanding its exactly that. If you’re routinely putting 3-400+lbs over your head on little girly arms, its gotta be stressful, especially when things don’t go perfectly smooth. Having a bit of extra strength seems to kffer a little more safety and longevity, particularly when minor adjustments/corrections need to be made mid lift.

45

[quote]Paperclip wrote:

[quote]Koing wrote:

[quote]Paperclip wrote:

What’s dip good for? And should we train the pecs if flexibility isn’t a problem?[/quote]

Protecting your elbows and for overall strength.

Koing[/quote]

Sorry if I ask too many questions, but how could dips protect your elbows? A similar question was asked why the Chinese do bicep curls and it’s said that they do that in order to protect the elbows. So stronger bicep and tricep muscle = stronger elbows?[/quote]
Like Koing says, it may help only marginally in the actual Olympic lifts, but if you mess up technique, it is good to have some ‘protection’ there as insurance so you don’t get injured. For example, if you jerk the bar, but the one of your elbows doesn’t quite get fully locked out, you don’t want a non-muscular/weak arm holding 315 lbs above your head. It is good to have some bicep/tricep strength/size for support so your elbow doesn’t get dislocated or something. At least that’s my take on it.

It’s also cool to have a bit of muscle mass, as well! lol

46

And I didn’t read brian.m’s post so sorry about that.

47

[quote]Koing wrote:

[quote]Paperclip wrote:

[quote]Koing wrote:

Do you do any dips? If not I would do some dips as long as you have the required flexibility to rack a Clean properly which I’m guessing you have :slight_smile:

Koing[/quote]

What’s dip good for? And should we train the pecs if flexibility isn’t a problem?[/quote]

[quote]Protecting your elbows and for overall strength. I would get a lifter to do this for 3-4yrs (maybe more depending on age of lifter), maybe throughout the lifetime of the lifter. It’s not hugely important but it’s an exercise to do after lifting, squats [insert 1 strength exercise].

I’d do one pec exercise a week if flexibility isn’t an issue. If flexibility is an issue ditch the pec stuff. The person has more pressing matters.
[/quote]
That’s actually what I’ve been doing. 5 sets x whatever reps of Dips once per week, 5x20-25 band pushdowns once per week, 5x8-12 bicep curls once a week, and 5x8-10 chins 2x per week. done and done. All on separate days.

48

[quote]Koing wrote:
When you mean lots of reps, how many? It’s more producitve to say limit to 2-3Jerks and do more sets instead.
[/quote]
I should have said sets. I’ve been doing sets of 3-4. Just lots of them.

I haven’t, but I’ll give those a try.

[quote]
On the Jerks, put some weight on the bar. Just don’t go crazy. Can you lock out your arms properly at the top of a Jerk? Get some videos, as it’s easier to see.

It’s fine to Snatch/ Clean daily, just don’t go crazy with the weights. Remember on your training days you want to be able to put up some moderate weight.

Koing[/quote]

Here’s a video of 50kgs:

[video]1956[/video]

(I hope it’s okay hijacking this thread with questions!)

49

oh yeah I forgot to mention. On the jerk, get a much bigger split and pop the head through. However with a bigger split you might slip on the carpet… which goes back to you buying Olympic shoes :stuck_out_tongue:

50

[quote]Paperclip wrote:
Sorry if I ask too many questions, but how could dips protect your elbows? A similar question was asked why the Chinese do bicep curls and it’s said that they do that in order to protect the elbows. So stronger bicep and tricep muscle = stronger elbows?[/quote]

Having muscles around a joint will help protect it as well as being stronger. Just one exercise per week imo after all the lifting, technicals and squats.

Remember you can’t lift when injured and if your lifting a lot it’s at least good to have some basic level of overall strength.

Koing

51

[quote]debraD wrote:

Here’s a video of 50kgs:

(I hope it’s okay hijacking this thread with questions!)[/quote]

Congratulations on doing the lifts and desiring the feedback to get better! I’ve just started with Olympic lifting myself last March at age 39 and these forums are a great source of continual learning/correction/motivation!

To my ‘still learning’ eye I can see the following:

  • the starting bar position should be over the base of the toes - you appear to have the bar too far forward which leads to
  • hips too high and shoulders too far forward.

When the bar is closer you can start in a more vertical orientation which will help with keeping the bar closer to the body and will be more efficient as the weights go up.

  • great flexibility riding the clean down to a deep front squat - if you can do the same with a full snatch you are ahead of the game already!

  • on the jerk: try to shorten the dip and drive up more forcefully - the jerk is really a leg movement not an arm/shoulder lift.

  • likewise on the jerk be more aggressive with the feet - the front foot should land to where shin is more perpendicular to the floor (think good lunge position).

The best things you can do if you want to excel at these lifts is to find a club/coach in your area and learn directly. I know in the US, USA weightlifting lists all the clubs/coaches for each city/area - not sure about Canada.

The second best thing you can do, IMHO, is to look at Glenn Pendlay’s California Strength Academy’s website - they have a series of videos for learning the snatch and clean from the top down - great teaching tool!

Third, take advantage of this forum - there are many willing and expert people here who love the sport enough to invest time in helping us out.

If you must lift on your own - video is your best friend. The camera doesn’t lie! As well, it will allow those here on the boards the ability to offer objective feedback.

Oh, and if your want to really learn - sign up for a meet - I learned so much at my first meet (4 months in)!

Best Wishes!

52

I’m super jealous of your legs :slight_smile:

I’m still learning, so I don’t know, but my guess would be that with respect to locking out the jerk there are two options:

  1. Drive the bar up more forcefully so your arms can lock out under it. So work on the dip-drive part of it.
  2. Get yourself under the bar faster / in a lower split so your arms can lock out under it. I think in this part of the lift people use the bar to help push themselves down faster than they could descend by simply dropping.

Probably some combo is optimal.

I don’t reckon I could hold 50kg locked out… I reckon you are pretty strong!

53

[quote]debraD wrote:
[video]1956[/video]

(I hope it’s okay hijacking this thread with questions!)[/quote]

Cleans Boss.

Do it with the bar and see how fast you can get under the bar with no weight. You should be fast with the bar. Your pull is solid, but your riding it down = not great.

It’s really hard to ride big weights down! Do it fast with an empty bar so you don’t ride it down, then add some 5’s and work up to your current weight.

Jerk, longer split, but your on carpet with socks on?! So that might be too dangerous.

keep it up!

Koing

54

Thanks for all the feedback!

I’m going to do some more clean and jerks tonight so I will take all your advice.

NewWorldMan, I do have a coach but I just started and have only met with her twice. I might see her this weekend. She has a busy schedule but we’re trying for once a week. She’s been a great help just in those two sessions.

Alexus, thank you! :slight_smile:

Koing, I will do some more gradual weight increases to practice the jerk. I can tell I’m still muscling the bar up instead of getting under it.

And I am going to work on the shoes! The carpet isn’t slippery that I’ve noticed doing lunges but I’ll make sure to be careful of that.

55

Good to hear Debra :slight_smile:

Koing

56

[quote]debraD wrote:

(I hope it’s okay hijacking this thread with questions!)[/quote]

  1. Starting position is too far out.
  2. Jerked it off the floor. I like more control until the knees, then explode.
  3. Didn’t reach full extension, you rushed the pull. Just by a little bit.
57

[quote]on edge wrote:

[quote]debraD wrote:

(I hope it’s okay hijacking this thread with questions!)[/quote]

  1. Starting position is too far out.
  2. Jerked it off the floor. I like more control until the knees, then explode.
  3. Didn’t reach full extension, you rushed the pull. Just by a little bit.
    [/quote]

Thanks on edge!

I am still struggling with all three things you have listed there. My biggest problem is keeping the bar close. My shins are so sensitive I think Im guarding them. I might have to bring out the ski socks so Im less afraid of the bar.

58

[quote]debraD wrote:

[quote]on edge wrote:

[quote]debraD wrote:

(I hope it’s okay hijacking this thread with questions!)[/quote]

  1. Starting position is too far out.
  2. Jerked it off the floor. I like more control until the knees, then explode.
  3. Didn’t reach full extension, you rushed the pull. Just by a little bit.
    [/quote]

Thanks on edge!

I am still struggling with all three things you have listed there. My biggest problem is keeping the bar close. My shins are so sensitive I think Im guarding them. I might have to bring out the ski socks so Im less afraid of the bar.
[/quote]

You should be doing pulls to mid thigh to mimic the 1st pull until your first pull is sound then you can forget about it and move on to proper pulls later on.

A rough guide for a person of normal height is that you should just about see your big toe under the bar or about an 0.5-1inch of it. Mix up the guide for your own personal shin/ limb lengths.

Koing