[quote]rsg wrote:
JJ wrote:
I think as a BB NOONE needs to go over 4 plates for reps on the DL and squat nor more than 3 plates on the BB Bench press for reps…
Sorry to go off-topic, but why?
If you are to get bigger, it may call for lifting more than 4 plates on a deadlift, or 3 plates on a bench.
Why do you think this?[/quote]
Good question, exactly what I thought as I read this.
[quote]rsg wrote:
JJ wrote:
I think as a BB NOONE needs to go over 4 plates for reps on the DL and squat nor more than 3 plates on the BB Bench press for reps…
Sorry to go off-topic, but why?
If you are to get bigger, it may call for lifting more than 4 plates on a deadlift, or 3 plates on a bench.
Why do you think this?[/quote]
It simply is not necessary, as a bodybuilder, to be able to DL 8 plates etc. It isnt the same sport…
Those arent exact fucking “restrictions” but the point is the same, for the sake of muscle - it is better for a bodybuilder to be lifting their DL for reps at that weight, that continue to focus on increasing 1RM with ME training.
It leads to injury and wear and tear that isnt necessary. It IS necessary for a PL so thats that…
For a BB it is good to train ME occasionally upto a certain level, when you can do 4 plates for 20 reps you need not use ME cycles anymore - the mass is there. The risk of further injury goes up 10 fold after a certain point - which would be different for all guys but for most lifting a 5-6plate a side DL max is as heavy as you’ll need to go to build maximum size.
JMO. I want to be able to still lift heavy enough when i am 40, 50 and 60. PL’s cannotdue to the nature of their sport… not an attack at them - that should be obvious.
JJ
I will address all replies here - let me make this clear. i am NOT saying that a bodybuilder doesnt need strength, nor that he shouldnt need to pull 4 plates a side!
If you read the post that should be clear… it does say “for reps…”
That would be ridiculous.
I am not saying a bodybuilder does not need strength - wtf? you obviously know nothing about the way i train.
I regularly incorporate ME cycles into my training.
I am saying that when a guy can pull around 6 plates for a couple and do 4(ish) plates for upto 20 reps, they need not continue risking injury on ME work like a PL does, as the size and frame is there… the size for the most part needs maintaining, without needing to continue to set new PR’s!
The MOST work in size goes on in the first few years of a bb life (maybe 20years but still…) - let me clarify, i am not saying after a certain point BB’s just stop bulking, again that would be ridiculous.
After the basic framework, the solid base is built… more refining takes place.
I hope that my post is clear, as a few of you questioned it - it obviously wasnt.
I am not giving a DEFINITE setpoint like - NEVER LIFT X WEIGHT. You hopefully know what i mean.
[quote]JoeG254 wrote:
JJ wrote:
i get ZERO extra weight with a belt.
I have built up my deadlift from 40kg to 160-170kg without needing one. I do it in bare feet, no belt - just straps.
I think as a BB NOONE needs to go over 4 plates for reps on the DL and squat nor more than 3 plates on the BB Bench press for reps…
And it is above those weights that the PL equipment comes into itas own.
PL equipment is there to MAKE A LIFT EASIER… Bench shirts, wraps and straps etc…that isnt what BB is about at all.
I use the straps to make the lift easier on my grip so my back can be overloaded…
The belt is there to push your abdomen against to get a large amount of pressure in the trunk to stabilize the spine, this is necessary when straining, a BB wouldnt be satrining on the first lift like this - if they were training max strength then that is a different matter of course!
In sub max work, the TVA should be doing the work that a PL relies on a belt to help with.
JJ
The belt helps someone keep tight to avoid injury, being injured isn’t terribly anabolic.
Why don’t you think bodybuilders need strength, I’m sure someone would be able to stimulate hypertrophy better if they are able to do reps with 5 plates on the deadlift rather than 4 plates. It seems like most successful bodybuilders have focused on getting strong (not necessarily for a single)
Sergio Oliva, Arnold, Ronnie Coleman, Dorian Yates etc. [/quote]
Sorry, i didnt mean low reps… hgh reps with that weight - i guess the 1RM would be nearer 6 plates.
Please dont use Coleman as an example in relation to ANYONE else on the planet! 
[quote]JoeG254 wrote:
http://www.flexcart.com/members/elitefts/default.asp?cid=205&m=PD&pid=1378
Awesome belt right there.
Belts don’t cause your abs and low back to weaken, I’ve seen studies where it increases activation of the abs and low back.
I see the belt as being useful in helping me keep tight, I find it much easier to stick my stomach into the belt and pull air into my stomach, than I would doing that without the belt.[/quote]
I’m the same way. I like using my belt for heavy deads or squats for helping me keep tight.
I find it really hard to believe you don’t get any extra weight with a belt, you must have a shitty one or are not using it right. Even most advance lifters will benefit greatly from a belt, especially in the squat.
I use to think I would always stay away from belts, even from max PRs. 2 weeks ago I got a bulging disc from rack deads going raw thinking I would be fine. I’ve been doing them for about 9 weeks raw (with a deload) and boy I finally hurt myself after coming back from a deload. I was able to hit a conventional deadlift of 395lbs for 6 reps raw a couple weeks back with no problems. However I’m considering buying a belt now ever since the pain of a bulging disc (which I was not able to get out of bed for 2 hrs without pain) mentally struck me in the head saying get a belt for your maxes.
[quote]shizen wrote:
I find it really hard to believe you don’t get any extra weight with a belt, you must have a shitty one or are not using it right. Even most advance lifters will benefit greatly from a belt, especially in the squat. [/quote]
“Even the most advanced…”? shouldnt it be even the most un-advanced?
I really dont seem to, no.
I used it for a few weeks on my heaviest lifts the last time i did a ME cycle, and it just afforded me a secure feeling while lifting, a solid trunk. But i wasnt noticeably stronger.
It is a shitty belt though, but a thick leather one all the same… what difference do the better belts make and how do you “use it right” then?
I have it a notch loose and push my abdomen out against it to increase the prssure and stability while lifting. Is that wrong?
Thanks!
While I don’t feel using a belt on a few heavy sets will actually set you back in any way, I can’t help but think when I’m in the supermarket, or Home Depot, that the workers who wear their belts cinched up all day are doing themselves a disservice. THEY will suffer the effects of constantly using a crutch (I KNOW IT’S A SAFETY ISSUE, but still)
S
Personally, I think part of the additional strenght I get from using a belt relates back to confidence. When doing squats or deads there is always that little nagging fear in the back of my mind that says “don’t hurt your back”. However, when I strap that belt on that fear subsides and I can really go for it! Very similar to when I have a spot when doing bench. The knowledge that I won’t get hurt lets me lift heavier.
[quote]slazeagle wrote:
Personally, I think part of the additional strenght I get from using a belt relates back to confidence. When doing squats or deads there is always that little nagging fear in the back of my mind that says “don’t hurt your back”. However, when I strap that belt on that fear subsides and I can really go for it! Very similar to when I have a spot when doing bench. The knowledge that I won’t get hurt lets me lift heavier.[/quote]
Yeah… i can see that being the case, seeing as i learned without the belt and never incorporated it until recently for a month or so… it gives me little to no extra support when i do use it, as i am used to performing my max squat or DL’s without it.
If i ONLY pulled max weghts with a belt then tried it without… shit, i doubt i’d want to do half the weight!!
I am glad i am conditioned to not use it… its bad enough i have the straps as the crutch that they are!
Some guys really do have it on from when they walk in the place on arm day! I think that comes from the pics of nasser el and dorian and ronnie in lumberjack gear with a belt on pulling an hands on hips most muscular, or doing curls - they think you need to wear it all the time, just cause they are posing with it!
I BET there are some lads here who use it for non-DL/Squat work!! lol!
JJ
It always annoys me to see those guys in the gym with the belt on from the moment they arrive to the moment they leave. The only things that bothers me worse, when they are way bigger and more ripped than me!
I belt when I workout about 92% 1RM for DLs and 95% 1RM for squats. For me this is for safety because in this range my zeal for weight can override my best judgement.
Under those percentages I have found it impeeds my core development and spinal stabilization. (READ - makes me a little lazy)
For 1RM I don’t use it in my warmups but it is belt on after that.
Wraps I use when my grip just wimps out. I go as long as I can until my grip fades then I strap up. Using any equipment ALL the time will build dependence on it and that is never ideal.
[quote] JJ wrote:
slazeagle wrote:
Personally, I think part of the additional strenght I get from using a belt relates back to confidence. When doing squats or deads there is always that little nagging fear in the back of my mind that says “don’t hurt your back”. However, when I strap that belt on that fear subsides and I can really go for it! Very similar to when I have a spot when doing bench. The knowledge that I won’t get hurt lets me lift heavier.
Yeah… i can see that being the case, seeing as i learned without the belt and never incorporated it until recently for a month or so… it gives me little to no extra support when i do use it, as i am used to performing my max squat or DL’s without it.
If i ONLY pulled max weghts with a belt then tried it without… shit, i doubt i’d want to do half the weight!!
I am glad i am conditioned to not use it… its bad enough i have the straps as the crutch that they are!
Some guys really do have it on from when they walk in the place on arm day! I think that comes from the pics of nasser el and dorian and ronnie in lumberjack gear with a belt on pulling an hands on hips most muscular, or doing curls - they think you need to wear it all the time, just cause they are posing with it!
I BET there are some lads here who use it for non-DL/Squat work!! lol!
JJ[/quote]
When I had a minor lower back injury I used it just for safety reasons, I could still lift but had that chance of re injuring myself with a bad tweak. Using the belt helped me still lift, and when it was better just took it off. I mean if there doing lots of lower back work, using the belt all the time isn’t going to hurt them that much. If you want to get bigger you need to lift heavy weight, which means using a belt at times.
Also most of the best bodybuilders use belts a lot, look at ronnie who lifts heavy weight he uses a belt almost all the time when moving that massive weight. I just hate people who are like ‘well ditch the belt and lift lighter weight’ no you should use the belt and lift HEAVY. Its in the same vain as people who are like ‘you should use perfect form with everything and just go lighter’ no the best bodybuilders do lift heavy and might not use the best form.
[quote]shizen wrote:
JJ wrote:
slazeagle wrote:
Personally, I think part of the additional strenght I get from using a belt relates back to confidence. When doing squats or deads there is always that little nagging fear in the back of my mind that says “don’t hurt your back”. However, when I strap that belt on that fear subsides and I can really go for it! Very similar to when I have a spot when doing bench. The knowledge that I won’t get hurt lets me lift heavier.
Yeah… i can see that being the case, seeing as i learned without the belt and never incorporated it until recently for a month or so… it gives me little to no extra support when i do use it, as i am used to performing my max squat or DL’s without it.
If i ONLY pulled max weghts with a belt then tried it without… shit, i doubt i’d want to do half the weight!!
I am glad i am conditioned to not use it… its bad enough i have the straps as the crutch that they are!
Some guys really do have it on from when they walk in the place on arm day! I think that comes from the pics of nasser el and dorian and ronnie in lumberjack gear with a belt on pulling an hands on hips most muscular, or doing curls - they think you need to wear it all the time, just cause they are posing with it!
I BET there are some lads here who use it for non-DL/Squat work!! lol!
JJ
When I had a minor lower back injury I used it just for safety reasons, I could still lift but had that chance of re injuring myself with a bad tweak. Using the belt helped me still lift, and when it was better just took it off. I mean if there doing lots of lower back work, using the belt all the time isn’t going to hurt them that much. If you want to get bigger you need to lift heavy weight, which means using a belt at times.
Also most of the best bodybuilders use belts a lot, look at ronnie who lifts heavy weight he uses a belt almost all the time when moving that massive weight. I just hate people who are like ‘well ditch the belt and lift lighter weight’ no you should use the belt and lift HEAVY. Its in the same vain as people who are like ‘you should use perfect form with everything and just go lighter’ no the best bodybuilders do lift heavy and might not use the best form.
[/quote]
I agree in that “ditch the belt and go light” is fucking backwards… we aint fuck-tional trainees here…!
BUT i still go as heavy as possible and dont use a belt. But if there comesa day when i need to use it to progress - well just try and stop me!
[quote] JJ wrote:
BUT i still go as heavy as possible and dont use a belt. But if there comesa day when i need to use it to progress - well just try and stop me![/quote]
Yeah I do the same thing really-so do most athletes and oly lifters-, but I see a lot of big guys at my gym who do use belts and I have no problem with them since they are lifting heavy when they do.
I would say it would help to avoid long term injury rather than using nothing at all.
first of all, we all obviously have different ideas of what “heavy” is so dont just say those huge guys lifting “heavy” are the only ones who could use a belt…and secondly, doing squats and deadlifts isn’t the ONLY time we could use belts…what about military presses???
heres a good article that sums things up pretty good i think: