Hey CT, i would like to know what would you do if u had to do one of them ? the lat raise or the upright row ? im doing it as an hypertrophie exercises : 10-8-6-20, i really like the upright row but is that better or doesnt matter ?
Give me your opinion about this, thanks you !!
i have another small question, with your favorite ramping ( 2 rm ), what are you doing after that ? ( your rep scheme )
thanks again !!
I know that a lot of people with shoulder impingement should shy away from upright rows.
[quote]Colbstar wrote:
I know that a lot of people with shoulder impingement should shy away from upright rows.[/quote]
… and lateral raises.
Speaking from personal experience, they both have caused me issues.
However, wide grip upright rows, sticking to the bottom end of the ROM seemed to be fine.
So, you know, you do what you can.
I have never had a problem with upright rows and prefer them to raises since they are a compound movement. In order to keep them safe, only row to nipple height, or until your upper arms are parallel to the ground ( same angle as the top of a lateral raise). If you row higher than that you get into external rotator cuff rotation and risk injury.
I personally never do upright rows and very rarely use it with clients. Not so much because of the injury potential but because that exercises isn’t better than any other exercise at doing anything. I’m not saying that it doesn’t work, but that I have better tools for what the upright row can give.
DB lateral raises I use more often with clients, especially with bodybuilders and figure athletes. I even do a whole workout of various “shoulder raises” with a high level olympic lifter I work with, to prevent shoulder issues.
I super-set lateral raises with DB upright rows. I don’t do BB upright rows anymore because they bother my left shoulder. DB upright rows don’t bother me at all.
–Brian
CT, could you give us a brief outline of the kind of shoulder raise exercises you give your olympic lifter.
Thanks in advance and sorry for the hijack!
[quote]shorty_blitz wrote:
CT, could you give us a brief outline of the kind of shoulder raise exercises you give your olympic lifter.
Thanks in advance and sorry for the hijack![/quote]
Keep in mind that this is to target his specific problem which is a lack of shoulder stability which hurts him in the jerk. This is due to a combination of very long arms and great shoulder mobility.
My goal is to thoroughly fatigue the delts THEN do an unstable pressing movement (push ups on rings). By having the delts fatigued, he must work extra hard to stabilize.
3 sets
3 sets
Full front raises (bringing the DB overhead in a front raise motion) with slow eccentric (4-5 seconds)
4 x 8-10 reps
Ring push ups
4 x max reps
Christian, if one would like to do a shoulderworkout with a clear emphasis on lateral delt growth and wish to limit anterior delt activation, what would you recommend? Only different types of lateral raises + possibly face pulls?
For shoulderwidth which do you consider more effective lateral raises in different forms or presses (anything that ends behind the ears).
Thanks in advance
[quote]Grod wrote:
Christian, if one would like to do a shoulderworkout with a clear emphasis on lateral delt growth and wish to limit anterior delt activation, what would you recommend? Only different types of lateral raises + possibly face pulls?
For shoulderwidth which do you consider more effective lateral raises in different forms or presses (anything that ends behind the ears).
Thanks in advance[/quote]
Thank you Lorez, I read that one.
I still want to know the optimal way to gain shoulderwidth without equal front delt activation in Christians opinion.
From what I have read from him before it seems he would recommend a mostly press-based program for shoulders BUT he also mentions using laterals especially for bodybuilders. I tried the savickas press and I myself mostly felt it in the front delts.
alright ! thanks you ! and what about the 2rm ramping rep scheme ?
[quote]LoRez wrote:
[quote]Colbstar wrote:
I know that a lot of people with shoulder impingement should shy away from upright rows.[/quote]
… and lateral raises.
Speaking from personal experience, they both have caused me issues.
However, wide grip upright rows, sticking to the bottom end of the ROM seemed to be fine.
So, you know, you do what you can.[/quote]
I’d bet your form is off on the lateral raises and/or the weight is too heavy.
Laterals actually have quite a few little technique nuances required to keep them shoulder friendly
[quote]Yogi wrote:
[quote]LoRez wrote:
… and lateral raises.
[/quote]
I’d bet your form is off on the lateral raises and/or the weight is too heavy.
Laterals actually have quite a few little technique nuances required to keep them shoulder friendly[/quote]
With 5lb plates, in the scapular plane, with my hands rotated just right they don’t cause any issues… but I twist my hand a little to far either direction and I can get some pretty bad impingement twinges.
The amount of mental concentration required to get and keep everything “just right” far exceeded any benefit I got from them.
That said, now that I’ve been working with a sports chiro and massage specialist, I can probably do these fine now. I haven’t tried for awhile.
Thank you for taking the time to reply to my question, much appreciated CT.
[quote]LoRez wrote:
[quote]Yogi wrote:
[quote]LoRez wrote:
… and lateral raises.
[/quote]
I’d bet your form is off on the lateral raises and/or the weight is too heavy.
Laterals actually have quite a few little technique nuances required to keep them shoulder friendly[/quote]
With 5lb plates, in the scapular plane, with my hands rotated just right they don’t cause any issues… but I twist my hand a little to far either direction and I can get some pretty bad impingement twinges.
The amount of mental concentration required to get and keep everything “just right” far exceeded any benefit I got from them.
That said, now that I’ve been working with a sports chiro and massage specialist, I can probably do these fine now. I haven’t tried for awhile.[/quote]
Just as a followup, yeah, I can do these pretty well now. There’s a few spots that are still a tiny bit touchy, but it’s a night and day difference.
If anyone wants to know… it was lots of work releasing tension in the pecs just under the collarbone, bicep tendons, and subscapularis. Some of that could be done with a tennis/lacrosse ball and foam roller. And then rehab is consisting of stretching the pecs and front of the neck, and lots of shoulder retraction work, some with bands, some without. Also repeated chiropractic adjustment of the shoulder, cervical vertebrae and collarbones.