In my current routine I alternate every week between:
Weel A:
Weighted Pullups 1 rep ME
One-armed Rows 2 sets 4-6reps
Sternum Chinup 1 set 8-10 reps
then forearms
Week B:
Weighted Pullups 3 rep ME
one armed rows 2 sets 4-6 reps
sternum chinups 2 sets 8-10 reps
pulldowns 2 sets 6-8 reps
straight arm row 2 sets 6-8 reps
then Trap work
In general I’m going up on most of this in weight, but in the last month I’ve plateaued on weighted pullups.
And I’ve always had problems going up on weighted pullups, even before I did them ME.
One thing is that tradeoff between ROM and load. If I bring my chin at my hands for 1 rep at 60 lbs then I bring the area between my mouth and chin right at to my hands at 65, did I go up? Should I keep increasing weight? It’s hard to decide.
Perhaps I should change up the ME exercise but I feel like the other upper back exercises are even moreso ones where the last part of the motion is much harder, and it doesn’t lend itself well to band work.
Maybe I should change it up anyway? What kind of upper back exercises would you recommend for ME work? ME for upper back is not something that’s discussed much.
My upper back has been the muscle that’s been weakest to grow, and after a good run for the last 5 months I feel like I should make some adjustments to help it out more.
I’ve had some progress combining R.E. and max effort work into one session for my back. Usually I’ll go for 3 sets of max reps on pull ups (as prescribed in ws4sb) and then for my next exercise I will do heavy weighted negatives.
Then again I’m pretty young so maybe I can handle this better?
Do HEAVY rack pulls for double or triples for your upper back. Shit, make the ROM 6 inches, you’re not doing them for your legs. Load up the bar with 150% of your max DL and you’ll DEFINITLY feel it the next day. My upper back has grown using heavy weight much better than lower.
Naphta,
Cool that someone else is doing this kinda routine.
3 sets? I thought you do only 1 work set of the 1-3RM set and just do warmups leading up to that with WS?
I like the weighted negatives
do you make a note to only count pullups that get to a certain elevation?
[quote]rrjc5488 wrote:
Your lat program sounds pretty good.
Do HEAVY rack pulls for double or triples for your upper back. Shit, make the ROM 6 inches, you’re not doing them for your legs. Load up the bar with 150% of your max DL and you’ll DEFINITLY feel it the next day. My upper back has grown using heavy weight much better than lower.[/quote]
thats what i started doing like 2 weeks ago. adn my back is growing like nothing else.
can u do this for the bench and get a chest or tricept boostor any muscle which it works???
[quote]Topathlete wrote:
can u do this for the bench and get a chest or tricept boostor any muscle which it works???[/quote]
As in loading on the weight and just doing partials? Yes. You can do board presses, or set up a bench in a power rack and practice lockouts from the pins.
I looked it up, seems like it’s more of a lower back exercise, like an supplementary thing to improve your lockout at the top of a deadlift. though it does seem real helpful for that as the top is the weakest part of my DL I don’t see how it’d help your upper back?
[quote]TheBlade wrote:
I looked it up, seems like it’s more of a lower back exercise, like an supplementary thing to improve your lockout at the top of a deadlift. though it does seem real helpful for that as the top is the weakest part of my DL I don’t see how it’d help your upper back?[/quote]
Deadlifts work your entire back, your upper back needs to be tense to hold the weight. Rack pulls allow you to add more weight to the bar. More weight to the bar allows for more muscle firing. Ultimately, it’ll cause more hypertrophy as long as you’re eating enough cals.
Just do a day with 5 sets of 5 HEAVY rack pulls. You’ll feel it the next day where your upper back comes in.
I like your upper back routine. You claim you’ve plateaued. When’s the last time you deloaded? You don’t have to go for a 1 Rep Max every week. You could set a new 3 RM or 5 RM. I’m sure you know that already.
Just from reading about Rack Pulls you’ll think they’ll just hit the lower back but it’s a great upper back builder. As a matter of fact I’m using Rack Pulls for 8-12 reps on my R.E. Lower Body Day. Rack Pulls for high reps are tough. Next cycle, I’m going to switch to low reps for Rack Pulls. For aesthetic reasons, I’m doing it so my traps explode! Strength wise, my lockout always held me back.
Deadlift variations are the only thing my traps respond to. I still do Shrugs for the icing on the cake. But the meat and potatoes for upper back development has got to be Deadlift variations.
My point is to give Rack Pulls a try and if you don’t feel it in your traps on that day. You’ll feel it the next day
Somehow set-up your days so that Rack Pulls don’t interfere with your Upper Back ME Days or vice versa. I noticed you’re doing forearm work and doing Rack Pulls with very sore forearms suck balls.
My routine:
Day 1: Chest and Abs (with ME singles on Chest)
Day 2: week A: Upper Back (with ME singles), forearms Week B: Upper Bakc (with ME triples and more volume and traps)
Day 3: Lower Body (as in quads, low back, hams) (with ME triples and more volume)
Day 4: Week A: Shoulders, Oly lifts, Traps Week B: shoulders, forearms
Day 5: Biceps and Triceps (with ME triples)
Day 6: Lower Body (with ME singles and low volume) and calves
So my upper back is right before my lower body ME triples (and higher volume) day. So where would I put in rack pulls, day 3? I figure if I put em in Day 2 I would be too sore for deadlifts on day 3. at the same time, if they really work upper back so much is doing them the day after working them gonna be a problem?
yeah, exhausted forearms from day 2 is occasionally a bitch for day 3, but I use shitloads of chalk so it so it’s not a problem. And it’s hard to make the routine, I want the distance between the two lower body days and also between chest and shoulders and chest and arms and upper back and arms.
structuring routines can be so fuckin hard, why must muscle groups be so cooperative with each other?
[quote]TheBlade wrote:
My routine:
Day 1: Chest and Abs (with ME singles on Chest)
Day 2: week A: Upper Back (with ME singles), forearms Week B: Upper Bakc (with ME triples and more volume and traps)
Day 3: Lower Body (as in quads, low back, hams) (with ME triples and more volume)
Day 4: Week A: Shoulders, Oly lifts, Traps Week B: shoulders, forearms
Day 5: Biceps and Triceps (with ME triples)
Day 6: Lower Body (with ME singles and low volume) and calves
So my upper back is right before my lower body ME triples (and higher volume) day. So where would I put in rack pulls, day 3? I figure if I put em in Day 2 I would be too sore for deadlifts on day 3. at the same time, if they really work upper back so much is doing them the day after working them gonna be a problem?
yeah, exhausted forearms from day 2 is occasionally a bitch for day 3, but I use shitloads of chalk so it so it’s not a problem. And it’s hard to make the routine, I want the distance between the two lower body days and also between chest and shoulders and chest and arms and upper back and arms.
structuring routines can be so fuckin hard, why must muscle groups be so cooperative with each other?[/quote]
Haha. I feel ya. Structuring cycles gets frustrating. Especially, when you have to fluctuate volume properly. Then, make sure the exercise complement each other. You always gotta be on point. Anyways, Rack Pulls should replace your Deadlifts. I do Rack Pulls on Lower Body Day. So YES, do Rack Pulls on Day 3 to replace Deadlifts. I won’t recommend pulling a 1 Rep Max on Rack Pulls. Go 3RM and 5RM. The chances of burning out are higher. At least I burn out faster from heavy Rack Pulls than Conventional Deads. I guess it’s because it’s an overload exercise. Plus, you want hypertrophy, right? So hit the 3RM and 5RM.
By the way, I always do Rack Pulls from knee level. Some may recommend higher but thats just me.
[quote]rrjc5488 wrote:
TheBlade wrote:
I looked it up, seems like it’s more of a lower back exercise, like an supplementary thing to improve your lockout at the top of a deadlift. though it does seem real helpful for that as the top is the weakest part of my DL I don’t see how it’d help your upper back?
Deadlifts work your entire back, your upper back needs to be tense to hold the weight. Rack pulls allow you to add more weight to the bar. More weight to the bar allows for more muscle firing. Ultimately, it’ll cause more hypertrophy as long as you’re eating enough cals.
Just do a day with 5 sets of 5 HEAVY rack pulls. You’ll feel it the next day where your upper back comes in.[/quote]
[quote]Kevin Haywood wrote:
As a matter of fact I’m using Rack Pulls for 8-12 reps on my R.E. Lower Body Day.
-Kev[/quote]
I know you said you agreed with me already, I’m just saying about your ‘high’ reps rack pulls. I feel, and I think plenty other people do too, that high rep deads or any of their variations can lead to a loss of form leter in the set.
For these reasos, I like to keep reps relatively low. Plus, the traps usually respond better to heavy weight anyway, so, lowering reps and upping the weight could lead to better results anyway.
[quote]rrjc5488 wrote:
Kevin Haywood wrote:
As a matter of fact I’m using Rack Pulls for 8-12 reps on my R.E. Lower Body Day.
-Kev
I know you said you agreed with me already, I’m just saying about your ‘high’ reps rack pulls. I feel, and I think plenty other people do too, that high rep deads or any of their variations can lead to a loss of form leter in the set.
For these reasos, I like to keep reps relatively low. Plus, the traps usually respond better to heavy weight anyway, so, lowering reps and upping the weight could lead to better results anyway.[/quote]
Haha, yes you’re right. Any basic compound movement done at high reps are tough and form breaks up. I was experimenting this cycle. The only way I would know if high rep Rack Pulls work for me is if I try them, right? I’ll see at the end of the cycle what hypertrophy gains I reap. Which will be in about 3 weeks. I’m doing another Deadlift variation through out the week using 5x5. Next cycle, I already planned to go 5x5 on Rack Pull’s ass.
[quote]TheBlade wrote:
My routine:
Day 1: Chest and Abs (with ME singles on Chest)
Day 2: week A: Upper Back (with ME singles), forearms Week B: Upper Bakc (with ME triples and more volume and traps)
Day 3: Lower Body (as in quads, low back, hams) (with ME triples and more volume)
Day 4: Week A: Shoulders, Oly lifts, Traps Week B: shoulders, forearms
Day 5: Biceps and Triceps (with ME triples)
Day 6: Lower Body (with ME singles and low volume) and calves
[/quote]
Day 5… Why? Why? Haha. That’s funny ME Arms Day. I may give that a try approaching the summer season.
Did you ever think about maybe taking out Day 5 just for a cycle to see what happens? Your Pull-Up strength may increase and you shouldn’t worry about your biceps shrinking. C’mon, your pulling frequency is pretty high already. That could be why you aren’t progressing on Pull-ups. Recovery is important.
[quote]TheBlade wrote:
My routine:
Day 1: Chest and Abs (with ME singles on Chest)
Day 2: week A: Upper Back (with ME singles), forearms Week B: Upper Bakc (with ME triples and more volume and traps)
Day 3: Lower Body (as in quads, low back, hams) (with ME triples and more volume)
Day 4: Week A: Shoulders, Oly lifts, Traps Week B: shoulders, forearms
Day 5: Biceps and Triceps (with ME triples)
Day 6: Lower Body (with ME singles and low volume) and calves
So my upper back is right before my lower body ME triples (and higher volume) day. So where would I put in rack pulls, day 3? I figure if I put em in Day 2 I would be too sore for deadlifts on day 3. at the same time, if they really work upper back so much is doing them the day after working them gonna be a problem?
yeah, exhausted forearms from day 2 is occasionally a bitch for day 3, but I use shitloads of chalk so it so it’s not a problem. And it’s hard to make the routine, I want the distance between the two lower body days and also between chest and shoulders and chest and arms and upper back and arms.
structuring routines can be so fuckin hard, why must muscle groups be so cooperative with each other?[/quote]
I had like this. I asked people and i got the same answer wide grip pull ups. I did that saw minimal growth then it seized. Than i read Muscle Gain Truth (by Sean Nalewanyj) and he said DEADLIFT, DEADLIFT, DEADLIFT. Not only will you see results in you upper back, lower back, traps. But your arms legs, butt, everthing gets worked with deadlift. I’m 18 years old and a senior in high school Istarted working out about halfway through my sophomore year. i was 120 pounds. Since taking Seans advice i’m at 180 pounds. with 8% body fat. The Romanian Deadlift is the most effective lift followed of course by squats.
[quote]TheBlade wrote:
Naphta,
Cool that someone else is doing this kinda routine.
3 sets? I thought you do only 1 work set of the 1-3RM set and just do warmups leading up to that with WS?
I like the weighted negatives
do you make a note to only count pullups that get to a certain elevation?
I’m pretty young too, I’m 20
rrjc,
what are rack pulls?[/quote]
I use them as a sorta max rep lift, not max effort. While I do heavy triples on chin ups, the problem is like you stated, making sure I reach the right height. Sometimes I’m not sure whether to count one or not.
As for my chin ups and pull ups, if my eyes don’t read the name of the power rack at the top ( and I mean right in front of my eyes) I don’t count it. It’s usually a sign for me to stop or switch to negatives.
[quote]rrjc5488 wrote:
Kevin Haywood wrote:
As a matter of fact I’m using Rack Pulls for 8-12 reps on my R.E. Lower Body Day.
-Kev
I know you said you agreed with me already, I’m just saying about your ‘high’ reps rack pulls. I feel, and I think plenty other people do too, that high rep deads or any of their variations can lead to a loss of form leter in the set.
For these reasos, I like to keep reps relatively low. Plus, the traps usually respond better to heavy weight anyway, so, lowering reps and upping the weight could lead to better results anyway.[/quote]
Totally agree with this. I’m only 18 and I already can’t pull for a while because of how bad I screwed my back on rep sets of rack pulls. It really makes me feel like an idiot and pussy when I can’t squat and pull.
Not to mention Hack squats and split squats are a whole lot more pain without the fun…
Kevin,
OK. I’ll do Rack pulls as my 2nd exercise aiming for 5 reps next week then try em out for 3RM when I get accustomed to the form. how much weight should I be doing? about the same as DL?
I was just thinking today and perhaps it would be good to switch the routine around to do:
Day 1: Current day 6 + oly lits
Day 2: Upper Back
Day 3: Chest and Abs (Day 1)
Day 4: Current Day 3
Day 5: Shoulders + forearms
Day 6: Arms
More distance between upper back and day3 and forearms now always after day 3
About Day5: I do 3RM ME for arms. I alternate every two weeks between Bar Curls and Dips and am packing some decent weight (140 on bar curls (not strict form tho) and 135 for dips).
I couldn’t imagine arm day hurting my upper back, I mean there’s a whole half week between them. could that really be an issue? My arms are not easy to grow so I definitely like having a separate arm day. On a regular Chest+Sh+Tri, Back+Bi, Legs split my arms gain fuck all
ExNole,
Yep. And no I don’t suffer from any overtraining symptoms
cccp,
I definitely deadlift. Don’t do the Romanian variation but am planning to add it in at some point.
Naphta,
OK, I’ll set a standard, like chin at my hands, and stick to it