I agree with A-baum - it’s one thing to ask for some proof for a story that’s as unusual as this one is and an entirely different thing to lauch ad hominem attacks against someone. Xen’s a member of the community, and should have been afforded some respect and the opportunity to answer any questions raised about his story without people resorting to name-calling.
That being said it’d be nice to see a movie or a picture of some lifts or of practice if only to bury this debate.
[quote]Xen Nova wrote:
Kuz wrote:
sigh
Ok, I hate to do this (since I always like Xen’s posts), but something about all of this is just not adding up with me.
So we started off with Xen showing his interest in trying out on this thread:
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=920506
I think everyone thought “Why not? Give it a shot!” I know I did and would never dissuade someone from chasing their dream, even one as hard as this.
BUT… the one thing that caught my attention were his lifting numbers which, according to A-baum 72 on that thread:
First off, your numbers are out of this world, IF they are legit. For instance, your bench and your squat would be the best in the country for USAPL (single-ply powerlifting) at your age and weight class, and with your dead you would have the best total in the country!
That made me more than a little bit suspicious, quite frankly. Lifting numbers that would be the best in the country and without any PL gear. Impossible? No, of course not… but still… gave me pause. I figured I would just let it go.
So onto this thread which is where I got even more suspicious, quite frankly. He went into spring try-outs for one of the most elite college football programs in history… and waltzed in without not even bothering to learn any of the terms or what the pass routes were? And the coaches did not boot him out of practice right then for wasting their time???
And then he tells the coaches about his legs hurting from running at top speed (even admitting pass stress fractures) and they continue to work with him on things??? As opposed to telling him to just go home since the practice squad is really not a ton more than glorified tackling dummies to prep the starters where they don’t have time for hurt players???
I decided to check out the USC spring football web sites and found a few different ones about the spring squad and every single defensive back has some kind of football experience at some level:
http://graphics.fansonly.com/photos/schools/usc/sports/m-footbl/auto_pdf/06-spring-fb-prospectus.pdf
http://www.teamandras.com/USC/2006_USC_Football_Charts_Rev07_2006_03_11.html
I cannot find a single DB without any football experience.
So seriously, Xen… what gives? Am I just being a dick here or is there something completely bizarre going on here and you were just f-ing with us? I simply cannot be the only person who thinks that looking at this story in total sounds completely off.
http://elitefts.com/documents/arnold_2006.htm
Brian Schwab
Brian competed in the 148lbs class this year and opened up with a huge 705 squat. I knew this was P.R. for his first attempt and was holding my breath. He blew this up and also squatted 722 in his Metal Ace Squatter. He finished the day with an 1836 total and another world record bench press (508). Brian might be in the 148lbs class but he is a thick SOB.
I’m 180lbs… My lifts aren’t impressive at all. They’re not shit really in comparison to guys like that. Who are also best in the country. Equipped or NOT.
I’m not going to dispute my lifts, I live in southern california and go to USC. Anyone here can come lift with me at the school gym if you want.
I said I was going out for the spring practice team. I made that team and have 15 practices to see whether or not I can make the main roster. Even if I make the main roster I’ll never play, and only dress for home games.
I’m aware that I’m not good enough to play and that I’ll just be a tackling dummy.
Thats if I even MAKE The main roster. Which in all probability I will not.
There were worse kids at tryouts. Some of these guys barely knew to swing their arms when they were running. I’m flexible, strong, fast, and agile I had little things to work on but I they felt I was good enough to let they’re boys beat up on me… which I’m fine with.
I’ve had pain sprinting EVERY DAY… I ran anyway. I mentioned to the coaches afterwards that I had some pain running THAT DAY and that I’ve had shin splints in the past. They wanted me to make sure I’m ok, like I said it was a joking environment as in “oh ya i’m sure you have arthritis, hahaha” They really think it’s just cause I didn’t break in my cleats, but I requested time to get a physical anyway…they shrugged and said ok.
I told you guys that I’ve had stress fractures not the coaches. A physical doesn’t take any time from the coaches themselves, and it is something that was missed in my previous physical. Physical is tuesday, they tell me whether or not I’m an insurance risk Thursday. Thats basically what they care about, being sued.
I’ve said all of this before. So lets review.
I NEVER SAID I WAS STARTING!
I NEVER SAID I PRACTICED IN PADS!
I NEVER SAID I WAS GETTING SPECIAL TREATMENT!
– All they’re doing is sending me to the doctor, and thats not even free, it goes on my USC fee bill, takes no time from them and spring practice doesn’t even start till next week.
Remind not to post here again…[/quote]
I cannot speak to the criticism anyone else has lodged on this thread (especially since a lot of it just went off in a bunch of directions I never really intended for one… I don’t post here every single day either, so a delayed response was simply not a huge deal to me).
My whole point was not to focus on single things like lifting numbers or anything else - it’s everything in total It’s simply the fact that I have an extremely hard time believing that between those numbers and the notion that the coaches at USC would have any patience with someone who did not know how to run a basic pass patterns and talked to them of injuries would last 5 seconds on their practice squad. That’s not “special treatment” in that you are going to the doctor… it’s just why would they even bother at all? It’s not a completely off comparison to watch “Rudy” and have a flavor for how much patience college football coaching staffs have for their practice teams.
I know you never claimed to be a starter or anything, but even still, this is a tough story to swallow. And you have to admit, your own posts clearly indicate that you are already eyeing up the guy you want to replace in the line-up.
Anyway, I didn’t post all of this to be a dick (and I think you can tell from the way I posted it was I seeking to be clear and logical, not flying off the handle or swearing up a storm)… just, I dunno. I am not buying this one. Sorry.
If I am completely wrong and you made the practice squad and all of that, then great. More power to you and that would be a huge accomplishment (as I’ve written in these threads before)… but come on. I think even you can see why someone would have at least a raised eyebrow about the story.
[quote]A-baum 72 wrote:
http://www.usapowerlifting.com/newsletter/ranking/2005/men_t3.html
Ok, so there is one 19yr who is stronger than Xen @ 181. Cut down to 165, haha. I supposed Xen’s lifts are unequipped, so maybe he could squeeze more out of some gear. 545+315+495 = 1355 I think…
Xen: that is a huge fucking total. Comparing yourself to Brain is not a smart thing, that would be like comparing myself to Chuck, which would be like a walk-on football player comparing himself to Ray Lewis. Comparing yourself to people in your actual age group, drug tested, and single-ply is accurate. Brian is a great lifter I am not insulting him, he lifts more than me and I weigh 275. What I am saying is do not be an idiot. You are very strong, and if you chose to powerlift you would be more than competitive.
I hate how nobody can be accurate. Either they are too humble or too proud. I also hate how my words were used to start an attack against someone. If my original post is read, I am very positive towards Xen; however, I urge him that trying out for football is impulsive and a was of his time. I still stand by that. It had nothing to do with his athletic ability, it has everything to do with it being impossible to play college football and still be a student. Football becomes your life, and academics become extracurriculars.
I feel the only reason Xen is trying out is because he goes to USC. I asked in my original post if he would do this if he went to stanford. The answer is no; it might be the water polo team though, because they are one of the best in the country. I feel Xen is doing this to challenge himself and see if he can. I feel his time is better spent focusing on something (like MMA or powerlifting) and becoming great (Like Brian Schwab). That is just me, my personality, and my advice. This is just a post on a bodybuilding forum… so who really cares?
I posted on this topic because I love football. I am sorry Xen if any of my words were offensive. I just am suprised someone quoted me, I thought all my posts were too long and nobody read them. You should really compete in powerlifting, it is fun.
[/quote]
Ok, first off, let’s keep something in mind here. Your post was not the entire basis of my response to Xen. You raised a point about the lifting numbers and I thought it was a good one. If you read most of my posts in these threads up to that point, you will see I am attempting to be positive as well about all of this. I would never dissuade anybody from taking up a huge challenge like trying to make any kind of team associated with USC football. Again, the point of my post was not about just lifting numbers, but looking at an overall story that (to me) did not add up.
[quote]Xen Nova wrote:
snipeout wrote:
If you go back to the original football thread I pointed out how last month he wanted to be a super power ranger, elite navy seal force recon delta force guy. Then just following spring try outs he starts with questions about bounty hunting. A few months back he also stated that his family is already rich and he is already successful yet yearns(sp?) for more excitement in life. Needless to say I called bullshit way back when even before he stated he could do roughly one burpee every 1.05 seconds for 15 minutes.
Its called mental masturbation. I think about stuff… I ask questions regarding it.[/quote]
I agree on this. I am not sure how Xen wanting to do a bunch of different stuff in his career has much to do with the football story. I mean, he’s 20. How many 20 year olds have everything they want to do with their life all figured out?
Here is what I think(if anyone cares):
There are a lot of people on here that do believe you Xen, and I think a lot of people would like to see you keep going with this. Obviously, you’re going to do whatever you’re going to do regardless of what some guy on the internet says. That being said, I think it would be pretty cool if you kept us updated since I (and others, I’m sure) found your situation pretty interesting and (yea) very inspiring.
Whether you do decide to keep posting or not- Good luck.
M
Practicing w/o pads? Interesting. I know teams do this, but not really before deciding on players, so this is out of the norm. Not saying it’s untrue.
Good luck when the pads come and remember the harder you go, the less it will hurt.
I never really doubted your story, but I did doubt that someone w/o experience could even hang with a USC type team…especially when the contact starts.
All I have to say is that if this is not true, it would be the second greatest troll job in the history of the world (the first being the fact that Prof X is actually a 120# 13yo white kid).
[quote]Rockscar wrote:
Practicing w/o pads? Interesting. I know teams do this, but not really before deciding on players, so this is out of the norm. Not saying it’s untrue.
Good luck when the pads come and remember the harder you go, the less it will hurt.
I never really doubted your story, but I did doubt that someone w/o experience could even hang with a USC type team…especially when the contact starts.
[/quote]
I’ve never heard of a team go out in pads first thing. There is always some type of conditioning (usually in just helmets) for a few days before the pads go on.
I’m sure they wouldn’t take the time to fit pads to every doofus who thinks they have what it takes to walk-on before even seeing them run.
[quote]Xen Nova wrote:
Its called mental masturbation. I think about stuff… I ask questions regarding it. Never said my family is rich, we’re pretty middle class. But I’ve done well enough for myself to pay my own school bill here at USC.
And those burpee’s didn’t include a pushup someone already called me on that, so they’re more of a sprawl, so technically those didn’t count.
[/quote]
Seriously? You pay a $34,000 yearly tuition bill on your own? I find this very difficult to believe given your assertion that you are self made.
[quote]doogie wrote:
Rockscar wrote:
Practicing w/o pads? Interesting. I know teams do this, but not really before deciding on players, so this is out of the norm. Not saying it’s untrue.
Good luck when the pads come and remember the harder you go, the less it will hurt.
I never really doubted your story, but I did doubt that someone w/o experience could even hang with a USC type team…especially when the contact starts.
I’ve never heard of a team go out in pads first thing. There is always some type of conditioning (usually in just helmets) for a few days before the pads go on.
I’m sure they wouldn’t take the time to fit pads to every doofus who thinks they have what it takes to walk-on before even seeing them run.
[/quote]
Someone who can run fast and jump high but can’t hit or take a hit should not be on a football team.
How can they assess this if all the tryouts are is to sprint and run pass patterns?
I’m no Pete Carroll, but…
Something I wanted to say in reading through this thread.
On this site, punches are not pulled in any way, shape or form. Anyone who posts should fully expect to be questioned, argued with, doubted and so on.
It’s the nature of this beast and really what gives this site its character. Now, just going on ridiculous ad hominem attacks on people is not “dangerously hardcore” or anything like that… it’s just lame.
Xen does not have to prove a single damn thing to me or anyone else on this site if he doesn’t want to. But let’s keep in mind that he did post this story freely and willingly on this site, so the rules mentioned above were implicitly accepted.
I did not put together some cheap, personal and hostile attack… I went through everything in a clear and logical fashion. I’m a lawyer - it’s just what I do.
All we have on this site are our words to represent us. Sure, we can place up photos and videos too, but even those can be doubted at times.
At the end of the day, your level of credibility on this site comes down to what you say, how you think and how articulate you are in your own defenses when people call you out.
Perfect example: Professor X. You get a bunch of people on here who hate him and feel like he struts around on the site to pat himself on the back and that anyone who admires him is just being some kind of toadie.
People who think that way are pretty much idiots I ignore because the reason I like and respect Professor X is not because he is a huge dude, but because he is a thoughtful guy with some very strong opinions… who does a completely kick ass job of defending those views. If your words do not do a great job of expressing your views and defending them, expect to get called out on it. In a way, this site is owed that by those who frequent it.
If Xen comes on here and shows something that proves me wrong, I will be the first one to admit it, congratulate him and apologize. Until that time, I have expressed my doubts about everything and even with his responses, I still have them. Part of me wonders whether his original posts just more overstated things more than they were, thus leading us to the point we find our discussion at today.
But in the end, I stick by my assessment and wait to see if anything comes of it. If something does, then fine. If not, it’s not a huge deal to me.
[quote]BigPaul wrote:
Seriously? You pay a $34,000 yearly tuition bill on your own? I find this very difficult to believe given your assertion that you are self made.[/quote]
Is USC that expensive?
I thought state schools were relatively cheap, assuming it is a state school.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
BigPaul wrote:
Seriously? You pay a $34,000 yearly tuition bill on your own? I find this very difficult to believe given your assertion that you are self made.
Is USC that expensive?
I thought state schools were relatively cheap, assuming it is a state school.[/quote]
Universities are more expensive than state. Cal State University Sacramento (State) University of California Davis is a (UC) and more expensive. If it starts with a U in California it it more expensive than any Cal State school.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
BigPaul wrote:
Seriously? You pay a $34,000 yearly tuition bill on your own? I find this very difficult to believe given your assertion that you are self made.
Is USC that expensive?
I thought state schools were relatively cheap, assuming it is a state school.[/quote]
USC is private, UCLA is public
[quote]Rockscar wrote:
Practicing w/o pads? Interesting. I know teams do this, but not really before deciding on players, so this is out of the norm. Not saying it’s untrue.
Good luck when the pads come and remember the harder you go, the less it will hurt.
I never really doubted your story, but I did doubt that someone w/o experience could even hang with a USC type team…especially when the contact starts.
[/quote]
Its pretty common knowledge that most college and pro teams practice quite a bit without pads during training prior to the season. These guys know how to hit and tackle at this level, no reason to go with pads.
If this guys ran full steam with pads on 24/7 they wouldnt have a team left come the start of the season, they would kill eachother.
[quote]Kuz wrote:
Xen Nova wrote:
Kuz wrote:
sigh
My whole point was not to focus on single things like lifting numbers or anything else - it’s everything in total It’s simply the fact that I have an extremely hard time believing that between those numbers and the notion that the coaches at USC would have any patience with someone who did not know how to run a basic pass patterns and talked to them of injuries would last 5 seconds on their practice squad. That’s not “special treatment” in that you are going to the doctor… it’s just why would they even bother at all? It’s not a completely off comparison to watch “Rudy” and have a flavor for how much patience college football coaching staffs have for their practice teams.
Anyway, I didn’t post all of this to be a dick (and I think you can tell from the way I posted it was I seeking to be clear and logical, not flying off the handle or swearing up a storm)… just, I dunno. I am not buying this one. Sorry.
If I am completely wrong and you made the practice squad and all of that, then great. More power to you and that would be a huge accomplishment (as I’ve written in these threads before)… but come on. I think even you can see why someone would have at least a raised eyebrow about the story.[/quote]
Kuz,
I have to say that you can’t take anything from a movie as reality other than the bones of a “true” story. I’ve known guys that were walk-ons at a top level D1A program. These weren’t guys that I would consider great athletes, nor would I have suspected they played FB if I didn’t know better. I also had several fraternity brothers that were football players (a couple were All-Americans too and went on to have NFL careers),I mention this for credibility, so you don’t think I’m off-the-wall crazy here.
Your assertion that assistant coaches wouldn’t give the time of day to someone in Xen’s shoes is not necessarily true. I’m not all that familiar with the asst coaching ranks at USC, but often, the guys at the lower asst level are right out of college and some might even have gotten started like Xen - as walk-ons. I find it very believable that they would be interested in him on a personal level because of the story of a guy with no FB background going out for the team.
They often use guys like Xen as motivational examples for the top players (i.e, are you gonna let that guy come out and outperform you, blah blah blah). Coaches love guys like Xen on the practice field. At USC, guys with nearly unlimited potential are a dime-a-dozen. It’s the guys that are limited that bust-ass that are the exception.
Granted, Pete Carrol may not ever give him the time of day, but the assts might.
Good Luck Xen.
Keep us posted,
DB
[quote]dollarbill44 wrote:
Kuz wrote:
Xen Nova wrote:
Kuz wrote:
sigh
My whole point was not to focus on single things like lifting numbers or anything else - it’s everything in total It’s simply the fact that I have an extremely hard time believing that between those numbers and the notion that the coaches at USC would have any patience with someone who did not know how to run a basic pass patterns and talked to them of injuries would last 5 seconds on their practice squad. That’s not “special treatment” in that you are going to the doctor… it’s just why would they even bother at all? It’s not a completely off comparison to watch “Rudy” and have a flavor for how much patience college football coaching staffs have for their practice teams.
Anyway, I didn’t post all of this to be a dick (and I think you can tell from the way I posted it was I seeking to be clear and logical, not flying off the handle or swearing up a storm)… just, I dunno. I am not buying this one. Sorry.
If I am completely wrong and you made the practice squad and all of that, then great. More power to you and that would be a huge accomplishment (as I’ve written in these threads before)… but come on. I think even you can see why someone would have at least a raised eyebrow about the story.
Kuz,
I have to say that you can’t take anything from a movie as reality other than the bones of a “true” story. I’ve known guys that were walk-ons at a top level D1A program. These weren’t guys that I would consider great athletes, nor would I have suspected they played FB if I didn’t know better. I also had several fraternity brothers that were football players (a couple were All-Americans too and went on to have NFL careers),I mention this for credibility, so you don’t think I’m off-the-wall crazy here.
Your assertion that assistant coaches wouldn’t give the time of day to someone in Xen’s shoes is not necessarily true. I’m not all that familiar with the asst coaching ranks at USC, but often, the guys at the lower asst level are right out of college and some might even have gotten started like Xen - as walk-ons. I find it very believable that they would be interested in him on a personal level because of the story of a guy with no FB background going out for the team.
They often use guys like Xen as motivational examples for the top players (i.e, are you gonna let that guy come out and outperform you, blah blah blah). Coaches love guys like Xen on the practice field. At USC, guys with nearly unlimited potential are a dime-a-dozen. It’s the guys that are limited that bust-ass that are the exception.
Granted, Pete Carrol may not ever give him the time of day, but the assts might.
Good Luck Xen.
Keep us posted,
DB [/quote]
DB,
Your point is well-taken, but I think it’s fairly clear from my posts I am not making it seem as if “Rudy” is some kind of gospel on practice squads. That being said, I still do not buy USC assistant coaches (regardless of their backgrounds) giving this kind of leeway. These guys are in a hyper-competitive field to get the job done and win games… so I would have a hard time believing that they would have any feel-good type of reaction in this situation.
Also, the guys who are 2nd and 3rd string on the team are incredibly talented beyond most of our collective comprehension, so I have a hard time believing that many of those guys are mailing it in when they are trying to make starters.
But, reasonable minds can disagree on this point. Just expressing my overall doubts on the story which still stand.
Kuz
[quote]elliot007 wrote:
USC is private, UCLA is public [/quote]
[quote]Rockscar wrote:
Universities are more expensive than state. Cal State University Sacramento (State) University of California Davis is a (UC) and more expensive. If it starts with a U in California it it more expensive than any Cal State school.[/quote]
LOL. the reason UCs are more expensive is simply because they are world-class institutions.
Xen, you’re a tough kid. whether or not you post in this thread anymore, don’t let the X-Series in the Sex forum die out.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
BigPaul wrote:
Seriously? You pay a $34,000 yearly tuition bill on your own? I find this very difficult to believe given your assertion that you are self made.
Is USC that expensive?
I thought state schools were relatively cheap, assuming it is a state school.[/quote]
Price of tuition 2006-2007:
http://www.usc.edu/admission/undergraduate/fa/costs/
It could have been more like $32,000 or $33,000 last year, but that is still about 65% of the median US household income.
Rudy! Rudy! Rudy!