Under-Age Marriage Pic

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
If someone grows up owning slaves how is it wrong?

Exactly. Its only when people learn that humans have a right to their own life that slavery is understood to be morally unjustifiable. Before that happened slavery was perfectly acceptable and was indeed the norm.[/quote]

This girl was essentially sold into sexual slavery you know.

Thank god the British stood against the slave trade for years and thank god the abolitionists in the US finally got their way. Would you have opposed them because slavery was the norm?

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Also Zap, slaves still exist in remote locations of Africa but we sit on our hands because they have nothing we want.

[/quote]

And not so remote parts too.

[quote]

Collectively, we’re a pretty moral nation, huh?[/quote]

Yes we are but at this point in time we are not willing to risk the lives of our soldiers to stop the slavery and it would take force to remake the areas that practice slavery.

Unfortunately the fix is not so simple as paying more for chocolate.

I agree with the sentiment I am just trying not to look at it with western eyes. These practices have been going on for a long time and this girl doesn’t know the difference. The real shame would be if she were to be emotionally put upon by learning that her cultural practices are “immoral”. In her culture she will have little to worry about…that isn’t such a bad thing in my opinion.

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Also Zap, slaves still exist in remote locations of Africa but we sit on our hands because they have nothing we want.

Collectively, we’re a pretty moral nation, huh?[/quote]

I thought countries didn’t have morality…

Marriage and sex should occur between consenting adults.

If you feel that an 11 years old girl qualifies as an adult, then you should give her all the rights and responsibilities that an adult enjoys.

She should be able to purchase firearms, alcohol, tobacco; drive a car and get a job where she might have to make decisions that directly impact your life.

If she commits a crime, she should also expect to do hard time and even be executed in some nations/states.

She should be allowed to vote in every and all elections, as are other adults.

If you think an 11 year old person is not ready, not mature enough to deal with those kinds of matters, then she has no business being married or engaging in sexual activities with adults.

She’s either a full adult able to give reasoned consent, or she isn’t. That some cultures see child abuse as “normal” and “acceptable” doesn’t make it so.

[quote]tedro wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Also Zap, slaves still exist in remote locations of Africa but we sit on our hands because they have nothing we want.

Collectively, we’re a pretty moral nation, huh?

I thought countries didn’t have morality…
[/quote]

If you haven’t figured it out yet…morality is relative. It depends on what you learn to be right. If you growup learning slavery is acceptable it cannot be considered immoral. Once you LEARN that individual have the right to their own life it becomes immoral. It is completely relative to what you know!

[quote]pookie wrote:
That some cultures see child abuse as “normal” and “acceptable” doesn’t make it so.
[/quote]

Well there is little use in debating it unless you are willing to storm the gates and “rescue” these “poor, oppressed” people and take them from everything they have ever known because you feel it is in their “best interest” to become westernized.

That to me seems just as wrong…

You have your beliefs and they have theirs and it is all relative to what you “know”.

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Exactly. Its only when people learn that humans have a right to their own life that slavery is understood to be morally unjustifiable. Before that happened slavery was perfectly acceptable and was indeed the norm.[/quote]

Relativist absolutism?

You just ran the gamut in one three-line post.

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
If you haven’t figured it out yet…morality is relative. It depends on what you learn to be right. If you growup learning slavery is acceptable it cannot be considered immoral. Once you LEARN that individual have the right to their own life it becomes immoral. It is completely relative to what you know![/quote]

This is absurd.

I will borrow an argument from you. I believe you stated we have natural born rights to life. By claiming that I have a right to life, I must accept that other human beings also have a right to life, lest I be immoral. Does the fact that they have not been introduced to this train of thought affect the morality of the issue? Absolutely not. Babies, toddlers and to a certain extent adolescents do not have a grasp on “life”, but we still must respect their right to life. We also must respect littler girls in the Middles East’s right to life. I bet Mohammed here wouldn’t like to be married off as property.

You are confusing morality with acceptance. It is accepted in Afghanistan because they have not all learned that they have rights and they do not have the abilities to rebel against it, but it is not moral.

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Well there is little use in debating it unless you are willing to storm the gates and “rescue” these “poor, oppressed” people and take them from everything they have ever known because you feel it is in their “best interest” to become westernized.[/quote]

Ridiculous pseudo-intellectual drivel as usual. There is middle ground between blind cowardly acceptance and “storm the gate” genocidal solutions. Like denouncing and condemning acts that are objectively wrong.

Look at the Saudi rape case that got pardonned by their king this week. International outrage and denounciation surely played a large part in the king’s decision. It’s still a drop in the ocean, but solutions involving no violence are possible.

That’s because it is. Think it through.

Pure Grade-A bullshit. Children cannot enter into deals/marriages/contracts on an equal footing with adults; there are no cultures where 11 years old kids are as mature and responsible as older adults. It’s not relative to anything, it’s simply a fact.

[quote]tedro wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
If you haven’t figured it out yet…morality is relative. It depends on what you learn to be right. If you growup learning slavery is acceptable it cannot be considered immoral. Once you LEARN that individual have the right to their own life it becomes immoral. It is completely relative to what you know!

This is absurd.

[/quote]
Well let me ask you, how do you know what is wrong or right without learning it first? When you were a little lad you had to be taught not to fight…you didn’t understand it as a moral imperative.

It is relative to what you know. Where does the basis of morality come from if not from knowledge of the natural order – which always must be discovered? Just because you understand what is “right” doesn’t mean it is so.

[quote]pookie wrote:
-snip-

[/quote]

Twice in one forum check, you’re on a roll Pookie.

My sentiments exactly.

[quote]pookie wrote:
Pure Grade-A bullshit. Children cannot enter into deals/marriages/contracts on an equal footing with adults; there are no cultures where 11 years old kids are as mature and responsible as older adults. It’s not relative to anything, it’s simply a fact.
[/quote]

Sure they can…and they are.

You can debate what “should be” but it has nothing to do with the way things are.

This girl doesn’t know the difference. What would happen to her and what would change if you told her she was a victim?

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

If you haven’t figured it out yet…morality is relative. It depends on what you learn to be right. [/quote]

No it’s not. What’s right is right and what’s wrong is wrong. A 40 yr old fucking an 11 yr old is wrong on any planet at any time; she’s a kid. She is miserable. Killing is wrong, stealing is wrong, raping is wrong, etc.

There is no gray area here, harming others for selfish gain is wrong. There is nothing relative about it. It really doesn’t make a fuck if wrong things are “accepted” by society. Not to long ago slavery was “accepted”, but it never ceased being wrong.

[quote]tGunslinger wrote:
Relativist absolutism?

You just ran the gamut in one three-line post.
[/quote]
There are only personal absolutes. It is relative to the observer.

When measuring a distance between two objects wile moving one will measure something completely different than a stationary observer. To me the measure is absolute yet relative to my frame of reference. There is no getting around relativity.

[quote]pat36 wrote:
What’s right is right and what’s wrong is wrong.[/quote]

Sure. But how did you learn it to be right or wrong? Before you learned it was it right or wrong as you understood it and could it be considered moral or immoral?

Morals can only be based on what one knows; how else would one define them otherwise?

[quote]lixy wrote:
I don’t endorse any of this crap. The guy is clearly abusing his position of power. I wouldn’t consider it rape though.

Anyway, the little girl’s fate is still a lot more dignified than the following:

News, Breaking News, Latest News, News Headlines, Live News, Today News CNN-News18 [/quote]

Outside of Sharia Law, having sex,(forcing sex, actually) with an unwilling participant is rape! I guess in islam it’s considered foreplay?

Every this smelly old geezer plugs her hairless hole, he is raping her. And there really is no hell hot enough for people who sexually abuse children. Her everyday reality is a living hell.

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

This girl doesn’t know the difference. What would happen to her and what would change if you told her she was a victim?[/quote]

That she doesn’t know the difference is exactly my point. That’s what makes this situation wrong.

Telling her she’s a victim would change little to the situation, as she’s too young to understand what she’s a victim of and why.

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
pat36 wrote:
What’s right is right and what’s wrong is wrong.

Sure. But how did you learn it to be right or wrong? Before you learned it was it right or wrong as you understood it and could it be considered moral or immoral?

Morals can only be based on what one knows; how else would one define them otherwise?[/quote]

What is learned and what is fact are not the same. What is perceived and what is reality are not the same. Ignorance may absolve your culpability to a certain degree for a “bad” behaviour, but it won’t change the fact that it was “bad”.

[quote]pat36 wrote:
What is learned and what is fact are not the same. What is perceived and what is reality are not the same. Ignorance may absolve your culpability to a certain degree for a “bad” behaviour, but it won’t change the fact that it was “bad”.[/quote]

But my point is how does one act with the proper intention without knowing what is proper in the first place? Kicking sand in someone’s face on the playground is wrong but how did I know it without learning it?

If we cannot first define morality then there is no basis to judge ones actions as moral or immoral. We do not hold ignorant children to account for their actions because they do not know the difference between right and wrong. It has to be learned. Once it is understood it becomes a moral imperative.