(Un)Official 2024 T-ransformation Challenge

Training
890

Interesting discussion regarding diet, hunger, satiety, etc…. One thing I notice about myself is that I do not enjoy discussing or thinking about eating strategies. I will not track calories or macros, or spend time thinking about over- or under eating approaches. My philosophy is “eat real food”, and look at ingredients and not macros. If a bar is high protein and low carbs but has chicory root fiber, brown rice syrup, carrageenan, and sucralose, I won’t eat it. If it is high fat but is made of almonds, honey, and whey, I will.

I guess I would be called a moderate eater. I eat about the same things in about the same amount at about the same time each day. I am at a conference now, and I really miss my raw almonds at lunch and my kefir at breakfast (they actually have pretty good food, though, so no real complaints). I crave an apple after dinner, and I crave a bag full of raw nuts, seeds, and goji berries after lunch. I don’t enjoy the feeling of being too full, and I don’t enjoy the feeling of being too hungry. So the way I eat is very easy for me.

That said, it also means I weigh about the same and look similar throughout the year. Depending on one’s goals, this is a good or bad thing. At 50, though, I have a resting HR in the 40’s, low blood pressure, and low body fat so I’m happy with my approach. For some, it to be mundane and completely unappealing.

891

OK, this made me go back read my original post. Firstly I love that you gave me a solution to the problem that you saw. Being able to eat to satiety and then not eat again until hungry later sounds like a great way to go.
My original post was merely to give an update on how I was going with the changes discussed with the group previously. It certainly wasn’t a cry for help and whilst (now I have re - read it) it did sound like I was complaining about feeling hungry it was really just an observation.

I think some history and context are also important so i’ll try to make this brief but give some background and understanding. Maybe not looking for a solution (or maybe deep down I am) but loving the conversation and wanting to continue it.

I think we all have such different histories with food that our feelings and thoughts towards food are often on different pages.
I know you talk about growing up as a kid that was maybe a little overweight. Well I was the total opposite of that. Youngest and smallest kid in my year at school, very skinny, often didn’t finish a meal, had very little interest in eating. When i started training as a teenager I started to eat more but really didn’t understand what eating a lot of food looked like until in my late 20’s. Even today I find the act of eating a chore, and I don’t derive that much pleasure from eating. I have just trained myself to eat a set amount of food as required by the training I do and the results I want. Now lets not get this confused with whether I can eat a lot of food. The capacity to be able to eat lots and the enjoyment of the meal or desire to sit and eat are not the same thing.
So where does hunger or the feeling of being empty vs full sit within this whole puzzle. I will be honest and say I don’t really know. For me the feeling of hunger is more observational. I can feel hungry and easily decline a fresh donut at work, or I can feel full and easily keep eating. The feeling of hunger does not tend to drive my food choices but as you said, it would probably be nice to exist without having to observe that feeling unless I actually needed food.
My biggest concern with removing boundaries around food intake and eating in a similar manner where I just eat until I am done and then eat later when I feel hungry. Is that I would simply not eat anywhere near enough to support my training. I would definitely lose weight though.

I am not miserably hungry or miserably full at any time. My wife does say I am often miserable but that is not food related. :wink:

Deff not heated and I appreciate the input from everyone here. Not many people I know face to face want to talk about or understand this stuff.

This is definitely true and why this chat is so interesting

I think this is key and maybe its a leap of faith that this old bloke isn’t ready for.

892

too late, sanity went the way of the Dodo.

Am I still eligible for results, at least?

893

I 100% agree with this. I’ve talked a couple of times in here about my little grapes problem. I’ve never been a fruit person before. I don’t hate it, just have preferred other things. Now that I’ve cut almost all sugar and am limiting sugar substitutes (greek yogurt, protein shakes, and chewing gum) the fruit has become a joy of my life.

While meanwhile, whether because my head is in the right place or because of the dietary changes - I honestly can’t tell - I don’t feel at all drawn to the candy at work or the crap that’s still in the house for my husband and the kids.

One of the things you’ve said that I particularly liked is that if you’re going off-plan, to do it meaningfully. The homemade cookies you enjoy, or crescent rolls. My birthday is in a couple of weeks and I asked my boss not to bother with a cake for me. I won’t eat it. However, I absolutely will eat cake with my family. A) it won’t be a grocery store cake, and B) my family!

This is how I hope to come out of this cut. More selective. Continued high protein, healthy carbs with occasional off-plan days to enjoy with my family. If I ever go back to Key West, I’m going to do exactly what I did in February, which was to eat every delicious thing without worry or regret. To me, this is @QuadQueen’s happy, sustainable place.

894

I really like this; you’ve done the work 90% of the time, so go really celebrate. That’s using all this to improve your life.

Contrast that with the “every day looks like a cheat day” lifestyle; that vacation doesn’t even feel special (and your way less capable of enjoying any activity outside of eating).

As pointed out above, I think we’re all not the norm based on the sample bias this website provides. We’re more talking about is it ever ok to chill out vs how do I first get my BMI into an acceptable range.

895

Exactly. Here is my dinner last night and the night before and also Saturday. My daughter ASKED for this stuff (though we had nice asparagus with it - later in the week I was just dumping whatever veggies on it). It’s a very light chicken cooked in chicken broth and white wine with celery, onions and peppers “wine-y chicken.” No normal person’s feast!

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Meanwhile (and why I do this) my pants are riding low today. I should probably throw a belt in my bag in case they stretch too much over the course of the day.

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896

Absolutely FANTASTIC results @EmilyQ !

So glad you found this useful. I saw a bit of reframing that was really eye opening for me.

We say “cheat meal”, or “cheat on our diet”, but what is cheating? Cheating is when we break rules to gain an ADVANTAGE at something. If we break the “rules” of our diet and all it does is create guilt and make us fatter/sicker, that’s not cheating: that’s sabotage. However, if we break the rules of our diet and what we gain is community, togetherness, spiritual healing, etc: THAT is cheating.

Cheat: don’t sabotage.

897

Yes, for just five easy payments of $29.99. :wink:

898

I don’t let my clients call it “cheating” or “cheat meals” instead we call them “treats” - and every treat needs to be a cognizant choice. Every single bite enjoyed. If something starts tasting less than awesome and/or the point of satisfaction is reached - that’s the cue to stop eating that food. No stuffing it all in because it’s “cheat day” or “cheat meal” or just because it’s there and you can. Mindful enjoyment is the goal. Done that way, there’s room for “treats” in every eating plan.

899

Absolutely love it! I was definitely a victim of cheating turning to binging. “This is my one chance so I better do it big!” And I’d eat SO fast to make sure I could eat SO much that I wasn’t even tasting or enjoying it, so it really WAS cheating myself: I cheated myself out of the enjoyment.

We’re such a stupid species.

900

I’m happy to see everyone’s discoveries around their diet and relationship with foods.

The “cheat meal” discussion is interesting in that it suggests that the “healthy foods” you’re eating taste bad or don’t make you feel good. That you need an escape from it.

I think it’s worth learning how to make the “good for you” foods taste good, so that you look forward to eating them.

I grew up as a midwestern American, where vegetables either came from cans, or it was a “salad” of flavorless iceberg lettuce and watery tomatoes, with croutons, cheese and salad dressing to get it down. Or, raw vegetables and a “dip”.

I didn’t really eat them.

When I started dating my now-wife, she would always complain about how restaurants never had any vegetables. To me I thought that meant “vegetarian food”. But she grew up with cooked and seasoned and tasty vegetables as part of every meal. It took me awhile to come around.

Eventually, I learned how easy it was to cook vegetables, with very simple seasonings, and can make them taste delicious. It’s not a matter of forcing them down, or “sneaking them in”; instead you want to eat them because they taste good.

Also once you start shopping more in the produce section, you can start appreciating how fresher, better food actually tastes better. That in-season food, or fresh-from-the-garden is actually that much better. (Organic isn’t necessarily better, but fresh and in-season is always better.)

Meats are the same way, but I think most people have had delicious meat with minimal seasonings.

I just think if people had more experience eating (and cooking) delicious meat and vegetables, and stuffed their faces with them because it’s delicious, that we’d never have the “cheat meal” discussion at all.

(And I think this is a place where using seasonings for palatability is entirely appropriate.)

901

Preach! Good cooking doesn’t need to be complicated.

Eggs, soy sauce, sugar, ginger, celtuice, bone in pork belly (belly on top of ribs), pork butt, garlic, vinegar and shitake mushroom are enough to make a decent 8 dish, low skill meal

  • pickled celtuice stem and garlic
  • stirfried celtuice stem with pork
  • egg dumplings in spare rib soup
  • braised spare rib
  • red braised pork belly
  • stir fried celtuice leaves
  • steamed egg with soy sauce and shitake
  • crispy skin roast pork belly
902

It would be really awesome to see a thread with basic techniques and recipes for these.

903

I’ll start a thread once I get out of class

904

And on the other side, there’s the monotony of being relentlessly on plan. I start to feel resentful. Like, why do I have to do this when everyone else gets to live a happy life free of these self-imposed constraints? For me, after that comes I’m not even fat! Working at the diet center I watched this turn into the yo-yo lifestyle. I’ve never gotten there, but that’s largely because I have more good habits than bad. The last time I ate fast food breakfast regularly I was 21 and worked in a gym. I taught my 9:00 class and then grabbed an egg McMuffin. When I come home from vacation I’m happy to return to clean eating. It feels like detox to me. But the idea of living in a detox world takes it too far for me. I need pleasure and I want to feel well. One or the other is not workable for me.

I agree. I don’t think of any of it as cheating. Have I blown off my workout? Then I have! Did I fall apart at a birthday party and eat like an asshole? Then I did! In fact, “ate like an asshole” much better describes how I frame it to myself. It can be good or bad, depending. I was talking to someone who was also cutting about vacation right before I went to Key West and noted that I was not going to worry about diet beyond making decent choices, which I always do (seafood!). He was on vacation the following week and joyously announced that he planned to eat like an asshole, too. Because sometimes we need the freedom that the oblivious people enjoy, I think. I do, anyway.

I worry that these ^^ are in response to my wine-y chicken. It’s tasty! But very light, especially piled with vegetables. Again, my non-dieting daughter requested it for our Frontier House-athon dinner. We ate it all the time when she was little, and then the whole family got sick of it and we haven’t had it in years and years. It is seasoned, though, lol. I like tasty food and eat out at good restaurants enough to know what it tastes like.

What I don’t like are heavy sauces and mucky foods. Alfredo comes to mind as something I enjoy one bite of every few years, and that’s quite enough of that. At home my ideal is seasoned meat (steak, chicken, fish) on the grill with a potato lightly buttered and amply salted and tons of steamed or roasted veggies. Or whatever thrown onto rice, which I love so much. A big success for me in this challenge has been holding myself to one cup of rice. I think that comes from moving my TV snack to straight after dinner. I stop eating the dinner because next up is grapes or a yogurt with blueberries. It’s almost like being a smoker. You stop eating because you want a cig. It’s made a big difference, I think.

On that note, I’m down a couple of pounds this morning, for a total of 11.3 since Jan 1st. Six weeks or so to go. I’m excited to see what they bring!

905

It definitely wasn’t a judgment of this :slight_smile:

After we got the kids to bed, and their school lunches made, there was still some leftover steak and zucchini that became my “snack on while watching TV”. I was also scrolling the whole “cheat meal” discussion while doing that, and reflecting on it.

And reflecting on the “seasonings” discussion, and thinking about what I actually eat. My protein and vegetables get seasonings. But often the seasoning is just salt, and it’s the cooking technique that brings out flavor.

Broiling works well with asparagus and broccoli, roasting with cauliflower. Blanching in salt water then sautéing in a pan works for a lot of others (broccoli, green beans). Spinach and chard can go straight in a pan, with a bit of oil, fresh garlic and salt, and optionally finished with some acid (I like sumac with chard personally).

Steak-sized chunks of meats can get some salt and a 10-20 minute rest before cooking. Or brined for a few hours in salt water or a salt-sugar mixture (3:1). You can wipe the salt off before cooking. If you chop it into smaller pieces, you can do a quick 10-20 minute marinade of something salty and a wine. Soy sauce with sake, or sea salt and white vermouth, etc.

And then those things can be combined, chop up some pork tenderloin, marinate it for a couple minutes, then cook it in oil and garlic with some chard and salt and pepper. Squeeze some lemon juice on at the end.

Didn’t mean to get sidetracked on cooking stuff.

Did mean to mention that my 13yo nephew visited recently. He lives on a diet of canned Chef Boyardee and microwaveable meals, which is a step up from mac and cheese every day.

One of the more surprising things was: We served him some simple sautéed garlic and broccoli while he was here, and he not only asked for seconds but for thirds. That seemed like a win.

906

I’m going to admit to being really basic, because I love food so much with very limited intervention. Honestly, I regularly have to offer an “omg, so good” through a mouthful of simple salmon (bit of olive oil, salt and pepper, baked until almost done then broiled to finish) or grilled steak with Montreal seasoning with plain steamed broccoli or cauliflower…like, moaning with pleasure. To an extent that’s embarrassing! I like the food at restaurants that take more time and use more fats and such, but not more than I like the minimalist stuff at home, if that makes sense. I just like them both. 10/10!

I have to imagine that @T3hPwnisher is even more prone to detect yummy than I am, as he seems delighted by stuff I’d turn my nose up at and I seem the same relative to others of the posters here. If so, it’s a blessing.

907

Hell yea! Great work.

908

Folks, great conversation here, I started trying to catch up but can’t keep up with the pace. However, I love it! So much great information being written here.

Unrelated to the topic of the moment, an update on my journey this year.

My eating habits have been getting cleaner and cleaner, to the point where I’m downright monkish. Yet the past couple weeks I’m feeling very disgusted with myself. My dad-bod belly feels (subjectively) like I’ve grown, and I’m 195lbs. I’ve only really been that heavy when deliberately eating huge and trying to grow my powerlifts, so how the hell did it sneak up on me?

Some observations:
I used to walk daily. 2-3 miles in a day was typical, and I likely averaged 10-14mi per week. Now? I don’t. The family doesn’t walk as much any more for a variety of reasons that I won’t belabor at the moment.
I do walk at times but I don’t have a lot of surplus time.

I used to engage in 20-minute saturday conditioning sessions. I don’t do that any more. I don’t have the garage setup, and haven’t filled my sandbag. I can clearly improve on this.

Lifting at the gym… I’m realizing it’s different than it used to be for me. There used to be times I’d do 60 minutes EMOM - 20 might be cleans, 20 might be snatches, and 20 might be clean-and-press. THAT is a good session. My sessions now aren’t giving me that cardiovascular hit.

At the beach when I first moved here, I used to bring a sled, fill it with kids or sand and drag it. Now I don’t. I can improve on that.
(I AM active at the beach, but sled drags are a special kind of work)

Anyway, there’s still time for me to look good by the end of this challenge. The next stage in my nutrition journey is going to be portion control, since I’m not looking to further restrict ingredients at this point.

909

It absolutely is! One of the teachings in stoicism is the ability to delight in simple joys. When I go to Texas de Brazil, my friends get a chuckle out of how every bite I take just absolutely brings me joy. Or like when I tackled that eating challenge and spent the whole time saying “Oh these burgers are great, ooh the cheese is fantastic, or the bacon is delightful, oh my goodness PEANUT BUTTER!”

And it’s funny too: there this prestige about having a sophisticated palate, and I get that but man…what a burden to carry. Much like how I can appreciate some high brow humor, but I’ll still watch the Three Stooges and have a wonderful time.