Ultimate Supplement Program?

Hey guys I was reading through one of the other mags and found this info and wanted to get your thoughts on this supplement program and timing.

Wake Up:
3 g Arginine
5 g BCAA’s (4 - Biotest BCAA’s)
1.5 g acetyl-L-carnitine

WHY:
“Take these amino acids on an empty stomach.
Arginine is best known for it’s ability to stimulate growth hormone and nitric oxide production. NO increases blood flow to muscles and optimizes muscle growth.
BCAA’s Promote muscle growth and recovery
L-carnitine enhances fat metabolism aids in muscle recovery and enhances the function of testosterone”

After Shower:
20 g Whey Protein (1 - scoop Isopure)
2 Tbsp Honey

WHY:
“When consuming a fast digesting protein like whey after sleeping you provide an alternate source of amino’s for your muscles to use for fuel and you replenish what your muscles lost. The honey provides a source of carbs to restock your liver and muscle-glycogen levels which stop your body from looking for amino acids to fuel it.”

Lunch:
Multivitamin
Mineral (3 - Biotest ZMA)
1 g Vitamin C
3 g Fish Oils (4 - Biotest Flameout)

WHY:
“Vitamins and minerals need whole food to optimize digestion and uptake. Providing these early in the day allows them to support muscle growth and aid metabolism.
Fish Oils help prevent muscle breakdown, improve muscle growth, joint healing, brain function and aid fat loss”

2 Hours Pre-Workout:
1.5 g acetyl-L-carnitine

WHY:
“taking L-carnitine before you train makes it available to enhance recovery following the workout. It also provides more testosterone receptors for the increase in T-levels that follow a tough work out.”

1 Hour Pre-Workout:
500 mg Tribulus Terrestris (2 -Biotest TRIBEX Tribulus Gold)

WHY:
“Take only on training days as it immediately increases muscle strength by enhancing firing of nerves that stimulate muscle fibers
It also works to help temporarily boost testosterone without causing long term blunting of its levels”

30 Minutes Pre Workout:
3 g Arginine
5 b BCAA’s (4 - Biotest BCAA’s)

WHY:
“Arginine increases blood flow to muscles. Enhanced blood volume delivers more oxygen, nutrients and anabolic hormones to your muscle cells.
BCAA’s act as fuel for your muscles to get through the workout also extra BCAA’s prevents your stored muscle BCAA’s from being broken down.”

Immediately Pre-Workout:
MRP Containing: (3 - scoops Biotest Surge)
20 g Protein
40 g Carbs

5 g Creatine

Immediately Post Workout:
5 g BCAA’s (4 - Tablets Biotest BCAA’s)

30 Minutes Post Workout:
MRP Containing:(3 - scoops Biotest Surge)
20 g Protein
40 g Carbs

5 g Creatine

Dinner:
1 g Vitamine C
3 g Fish Oils (4 - Biotest Flameout)

30 Minutes Before bed:
3 g Arginine

Just Before Bed:
40 g Casein Protein (2 - scoops Biotest Metabolic Drive)

What would you change? ADD or Subtract? Where would you add a fat burner like HOT-ROX?

Did they include a goal that this supplement regimen would help attain?

You simply fit the HOT-ROX in as directed, twice per day six to eight hours apart. First dose in the morning staggered in with your morning supps and the second in what ever order is convinient for you in the afternoon. Are you eating whole foods as well? Meat, fruit, and vegetables?

D

Doug Adams
"Did they include a goal that this supplement regimen would help attain? "

Yes, this program is for “Explosive Muscle Growth” and was written by: Jim Stoppani, PhD

  1. lose the arginine and have ZMA before bed

  2. everyone should have their supplement plan tailored to their own schedule and goals and only after diet has been reviewed.

  3. HOT-ROX Extreme and TRIBEX in morning and 6-8 hours later, skip the TRIBEX on weekends if taking long term.

  4. may have to up Surge intake.

  5. skip the creatine before workout, keep it for the end. take the money you save off the arginine and get some BETA-7 to go with that creatine. i no longer have the urge to puke after repeated sprint workouts.

  6. eat as much veggies and fruit as you can.

  7. in morning, 2-3 scoops Metbabolic Drive with as much fruit as you feel like, add a scoop of greens+ to the shake. add greens+ to your prebed shake too.

[quote]Dedicated wrote:
You simply fit the HOT-ROX in as directed, twice per day six to eight hours apart. First dose in the morning staggered in with your morning supps and the second in what ever order is convinient for you in the afternoon. Are you eating whole foods as well? Meat, fruit, and vegetables?

D[/quote]

Dedicated: Hi, yes my diet is pretty straight right now. I keep a food log on fitday.com using these guidelines:

Caloric Requirement Calculations

Caloric Target Calculations should not be based on total bodyweight, but rather Lean Body Mass (LBM). There is no reason to include fat mass in the calculation unless you wish to maintain the fat. Simply take the subject’s total weight and multiply it by (1 - BF%) to get his LBM.

Example For Fat Loss Phase:

230lbs X .76 (24%) = 175lbs LBM

Protein: 1.35 x 175 = 236 grams X 4
= 945 CALORIES = 44%
Carbs: 1 x 175 = 175 grams X 4
= 700 CALORIES = 33%
Fat: .3 x 175 = 53 grams X 9
= 477 CALORIES = 23%

= 2,121 TOTAL TARGET CALORIC INTAKE

Example for Mass Phase:

230lbs X .76 (24%) = 175lbs LBM

Protein: 1.86 x 175 = 326 grams X 4
= 1304 CALORIES = 38%
Carbs: 1.5 x 175 = 263 grams X 4
= 1052 CALORIES = 31%
Fat: .75 x 175 = 131 grams X 9
= 1181 CALORIES = 34%

= 3,537 TOTAL TARGET CALORIC INTAKE

Do you have any thoughts on this program. I just ordered $$$$$$ what I need to try it for a month. It’s not cheap but I am a believer in Biotest and I have tried everything here at one time or another with good results so we’ll see how it goes.

[quote]KraigY wrote:
Dedicated wrote:
You simply fit the HOT-ROX in as xdirected, twice per day six to eight hours apart. First dose in the morning staggered in with your morning supps and the second in what ever order is convinient for you in the afternoon. Are you eating whole foods as well? Meat, fruit, and vegetables?

D

Dedicated: Hi, yes my diet is pretty straight right now. I keep a food log on fitday.com using these guidelines:

Caloric Requirement Calculations

Caloric Target Calculations should not be based on total bodyweight, but rather Lean Body Mass (LBM). There is no reason to include fat mass in the calculation unless you wish to maintain the fat. Simply take the subject’s total weight and multiply it by (1 - BF%) to get his LBM.

(EXAMPLE)

230lbs X .76 (24%) = 175lbs LBM

Protein: 1.35 x 175 = 236 grams X 4
= 944 CALORIES = 44%
Carbs: 1 x 175 = 175 grams X 4
= 700 CALORIES = 33%
Fat: .3 x 175 = 53 grams X 9
= 477 CALORIES = 23%

= 2,121 TOTAL TARGET CALORIC INTAKE

Do you have any thoughts on this program. I just ordered $$$$$$ what I need to try it for a month. It’s not cheap but I am a believer in Biotest and I have tried everything here at one time or another with good results so we’ll see how it goes.
[/quote]

Sorry,

but I don’t see ‘massive muscle growth’ on 2100 cals for a 230lber. This can’t even be maint. cals!! If you were on some type of cut, I might be more inclined to go along–even then I would say that is an awfully low total.

My suggestion would be about 12-15 cals (x) bw for total cals. Now you are looking at between 2700 and 3500 cals a day. Of which I would look for a 30/30/40 or 40/30/30 p/c/f. Your calories and especially your fats are way to low for my liking. You are spending all that money on supps that along with proper diet and exercise their goal is to increase mass and strength and you are starving your body. Worry about the weight until after your ‘cycle’ is done. Frankly, I think you are way–WAY overspending and over supping for your level, but at least give them a chance to do what you are thinking and paying them to do.

[quote]

Sorry,

but I don’t see ‘massive muscle growth’ on 2100 cals for a 230lber. This can’t even be maint. cals!! If you were on some type of cut, I might be more inclined to go along–even then I would say that is an awfully low total.

My suggestion would be about 12-15 cals (x) bw for total cals. Now you are looking at between 2700 and 3500 cals a day. Of which I would look for a 30/30/40 or 40/30/30 p/c/f. Your calories and especially your fats are way to low for my liking. You are spending all that money on supps that along with proper diet and exercise their goal is to increase mass and strength and you are starving your body. Worry about the weight until after your ‘cycle’ is done. Frankly, I think you are way–WAY overspending and over supping for your level, but at least give them a chance to do what you are thinking and paying them to do.[/quote]

Thanks for the heads up I have added my mass phase calculations. Let me know what your thoughts are on that. What do you mean supping over my level? How can you have any idea of my level?

Persoanlly, I think that is a over the top supplementation plan by anyone short of a pro. And your original mass equation made me believe you were not at that level.

Listen, I’m for doing anything you want to do that you feel makes better, but I think you are way overthinking and way over spending. That’s just my gut opinion.

Eat healthy.
Whey, creatine, fish oil, and for me L-glut. are more than enough for even moderate to advanced trainees.
Get plenty of rest.

Oh yah, work out hard and consistant.

The rest is maximizing lab potential. The cortisolyou produce from trying to keep to that schedule will probably negate any benefit.

With 24% bodyfat, maybe you should only have max 1 serving of Surge, and have it during your workout.

That, or have about 5 grams of BCAAs during and/or before and/or after your workouts.

Ignore what I said, I just read your profile, and realized that 24% was only an example.

[quote]sasquatch wrote:
…I think you are way overthinking and way over spending…
[/quote]

I think he’s right. You want to base your training and nutrition on sound science, such as we presently have it, but guys who shoot for the level of precision (and supplementation) you are usually end up with unrealistic expectations and in the end disappointment.

Just being honest.

Ultimate supplement program = multi vitamins, whey protein, maltodextrin powder, fish oils, peanut butter, milk, rice, and dead animals.

Do that, and you’ll be set for life.

[quote]homer1 wrote:
Ultimate supplement program = multi vitamins, whey protein, maltodextrin powder, fish oils, peanut butter, milk, rice, and dead animals.

Do that, and you’ll be set for life.[/quote]

I’ve never understood why anyone would consider foods supplements. Obviously, they are not.

Nor would I consider multi vitamins, whey protein, maltodextrin powder, and fish oil the “ultimate supplement program.” A very basic one maybe, but nowhere near ultimate.

[quote]ChrisKing wrote:
I’ve never understood why anyone would consider foods supplements. Obviously, they are not.

Nor would I consider multi vitamins, whey protein, maltodextrin powder, and fish oil the “ultimate supplement program.” A very basic one maybe, but nowhere near ultimate.[/quote]

The guy is saying that he needs to concentrate more on foods and less on supplements which I believe is correct. Even the truly “ultimate supplement program” will not do any good when married to a sub optimal diet.

Supplements put the razor’s edge on an already sharp diet. Most guys I see here with a funnel in their mouth pouring in supplements are not eating anything like an optimal diet for their stated goals if their goals are even clearly stated.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
ChrisKing wrote:
I’ve never understood why anyone would consider foods supplements. Obviously, they are not.

Nor would I consider multi vitamins, whey protein, maltodextrin powder, and fish oil the “ultimate supplement program.” A very basic one maybe, but nowhere near ultimate.

The guy is saying that he needs to concentrate more on foods and less on supplements which I believe is correct. Even the truly “ultimate supplement program” will not do any good when married to a sub optimal diet.

Supplements put the razor’s edge on an already sharp diet. Most guys I see here with a funnel in their mouth pouring in supplements are not eating anything like an optimal diet for their stated goals if their goals are even clearly stated.

[/quote]

Exactly. I don’t literally thing food is a supplement. But people seem to focus so much on having a good supplement program, they think it will sub a good diet. They are an addition. They supplement the diet. And their benefits are nothing compared to what people make it out to be.