UFC 74: Respect

[quote]Mick28 wrote:

There is something that mma has that boxing does not, and that is the tap out. If the guy can’t see then he can tap out and end the fight. Deans response to the complaint should have been “keep fighting, or tap out.”

[/quote]

Exactly. What happens if a fighter takes a big body shot and gets clinched up against the cage, and says, “I can’t breath.”

Do you stop the action, question him with a doctor and give him enough time to recover? Gonzaga couldn’t see because he has blood in his eye, and the little break allowed him to wipe it out and get a breather which is blatantly unfair and disingenious. It’s a terrible precedent to allow a fighter to literally call a “time out” when the legal course of action in a fight is causing him a problem.

Im not so sure this wasn’t a language barrier issue for Dean. I’d want to be certain that the fighter knew what he was doing before calling the fight given English is not GG’s native language.

Was it a cheap move and should Gonzaga of known better? Definitely.

Does this make Herb Dean a bad ref? Absolutely not.

I’m no expert in the art of ref’ing fights but I have to imagine that the ref’s first and foremost concern in an MMA fight is stopping it as soon as possible when someone either taps out, is KO’ed/TKO’ed, submits or is choked out. Failure to do so in a timely enough manner could case serious, permanent injury or possible even death in some cases.

The very LAST thing the UFC wants is for a fighter to DIE or be permanently blinded, suffer brain damage, etc. during one of its fights. The outcry against the sport might then all but shut it down.

So if a fighter who is obviously severely banged up and has so far had the piss all but beaten out of him, with blood all over his face, says to him, “I can’t see,” I’ve got to imagine Herb Dean wasn’t just thinking that that meant he needed to wipe some blood/sweat from his eyes, but possibly that his vision was blurry or foggy from taking some serious shots from Randy.

Brain damage and the like are scary things. Imagine for a second if Gonzaga didn’t have any blood on his face, so blood in the eyes wasn’t an issue. But he had of course taken some shots to the head so far during the course of the fight. Then he says to the ref, “I can’t see.” The possibility of blindness or serious brain damage of some sort from an ill-placed head shot is no small issue.

Herb had to make a split-second decision. He didn’t know what the cause of Gabe’s vision loss was. Could he have handled it better, like some suggested, and just asked him to either tap out or not tap out, without separating them? Probably, but it’s not something he can take lightly.

When Gonzaga first said he couldn’t see, since it didn’t look to me like he had blood in his eyes at all, my first thought was that some of the shots he took to the head might have seriously fucked him up, which is kind of scary.

So I don’t fault Herb Dean too much.

Now, when he stood up CroCop and Gonzaga, THAT was a shitty call.

Apparently Randy may have broken his arm in the fight and may be sitting on the shelf until early next year, if he returns.

http://ufcmania.com/2007/08/27/report-couture-breaks-arm-in-ufc-74-win-over-gonzaga/

Gabriel Gonzaga�??s nose was not the only thing that got broken during the heavyweight championship bout this weekend at UFC 74: �??Respect.�??

Division titleholder Randy Couture sustained a �??nightstick fracture�?? of his left forearm when blocking a �??Napao�?? high kick, according to FightNetwork.com.

Here�??s the snip:

�??�?� Randy Couture was informed Sunday by doctors that he�??d broken his arm during his third round TKO stoppage of Gabriel Gonzaga. Couture sustained the injury Saturday blocking a Gonzaga right high kick with his left forearm, cleanly separating the ulna bone�?�. The injury placed the UFC heavyweight champion�??s arm in a splint for six weeks. The appendage will not need a cast.�??

Fortunately, the injury does not seem serious. Perhaps it is a blessing in disguise, providing the training and public relations workhorse with some much-need time off.

Here�??s a snip from �??The Natural:�??

�??It�??s not displaced, so the doctors think it will reattach in about a week and a half.�??

Watching the fight it seems hard to believe that he was able to finish of the monstrous Brazilian with a bum wing. I guess it just adds more mystique to the legend that is Randy Couture.

[quote]LillGuy001 wrote:
Still wish they would of played the fight that showed whoever got that bloodied up to stain the canvas so bad.[/quote]

I believe it was this one…
http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/search/ufc+74/video/x2uaae_renato-babalu-sobral-vs-david-heath_extreme

Anyway, unnecessary move on the part of Babalu, even if it was only about three seconds he held on after the tap. Playing head games before the fight is one thing, but this is a professional sport. If things like this make precedent, next time you’ll see someone holding on ‘just a few seconds longer’ and snapping the other guys arm.

[quote]Donut62 wrote:
Apparently Randy may have broken his arm in the fight and may be sitting on the shelf until early next year, if he returns.[/quote]

I just read about it too.

Edit: Slimjim already posted it.

6 weeks in a splint is great news. I had terrible visions of LeBanner’s injury against Hoost where he was out for a year from blocking a high kick with his forearm and has had several surgeries. Thanks, slimjim.

[quote]Mick28 wrote:

I agree, the guy should be fined and or suspended. MMA does not need that sort of nonsense, it only adds fuel to the fire for politicians to enact anti-mma legislation.[/quote]

This from ufc.com:

“Sobral will reportedly be fined half of his purse by the Nevada State Athletic Commission and may also face other disciplinary action.”

Looks like he is the one who is going to get taught a lesson.

http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/search/frank+mir/video/x2uig8_frank-mir-vs-antoni-hardonk_sport

Frank Mir fight, I don’t know anything about the other guy but good to see Frank doing well again.

[quote]Mick28 wrote:
RickyBobby wrote:
Mick28 wrote:
RickyBobby wrote:

You are a fucking idiot. Herb Dean is a great ref. You never have to worry about a premature stoppage. Go watch some more TUF reruns jackass.

I can understand your point, but remember when you’re 14 years old sometimes things can get all confusing to you. Now run along and let the adults discuss this.

Did the other 8th graders actually think that was funny? You are obviously an MMA mental midget.

Try this…

Read more

Post less

I just figured out where I’ve read one of your other immature posts. It was over on the “Ultimate Internet Tough-Guy” thread. This is the crap that you spewed over there:

if he was on T-Nation throwing threats people like you would call him an idiot for not backing up his cvlaims. Now that he DID back up his claims, hes a stupid fool?

grow up.

hero

This little idiot actually backed up the worm who tracked a guy down and killed him because of an Internet argument.

Now you’re on an mma thread talking more trash. You really need to give it rest kid, no one’s impressed.[/quote]

Actually dumbass, that was Irish Muscle’s comment NOT mine. Feel free to check again…

http://www.T-Nation.com/tmagnum/readTopic.do?id=1663900&pageNo=2

I merely posted a picture [u]WITHOUT[/u] any text.

Reading comprehension obviously isn’t your strong suit.

I still can’t believe they didn’t show Clay Guida’s fight after his last performance against Griffin.

[quote]Kalle wrote:
http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/search/frank+mir/video/x2uig8_frank-mir-vs-antoni-hardonk_sport

Frank Mir fight, I don’t know anything about the other guy but good to see Frank doing well again.[/quote]

Love Frank Mir! He’s never been quite the same since his accident. Congrats to Randy for deivering a straight up beating!!! That guy is a freak of nature.

I had no problem with what Herb Dean did in that instance. The most important thing a ref does is look after a fighter’s safety, Gonzaga told him he couldn’t see so he had to do something, he stopped the fight for a second to confirm with Gonzaga, I do not believe he called the doctor in, the doc came in on his own slowing down the process even more. Once Dean confirmed that Gonzaga was able to see he restarted them.

So many times these refs find themselves in awkward situations, if he had stopped the fight outright at that point, the other half of the fans would be up in arms saying he stopped the fight prematurely.

Further, I don’t think there should be warnings about grabbing the fence, if a fighter grabs the fence hard enough to stop a takedown, he should be penalized a point automatically, too many outcomes are affected by fence grabbing to allow it to continue unpunished.

GSP’s wrestling looked spectacular, I’d love it if they replayed Koschek saying, “He’s going to outwrestle me? ME?!!??!” in the postfight interview