Anyone think something like compubox stats would help in decisions? Do they use them? Rua should have won the fight from the “effective striking” and “aggression” parts of the scoring explanation.
[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
Valor wrote:
XiaoNio wrote:
coolp3ople wrote:
it wasn’t a bad decision, it was a pretty even fight.
1 - shogun proved he could do what? leg kick. ohh boy thats a real champion right there.
2 - Lyoto landed actual punches and defended take-downs, shogun didn’t land much except the leg kicks.
I felt like the judges failed at first but after some thoughts on the matter i didn’t really see shogun proving himself as a true ufc champion in the judges eyes.
- Obviously you’ve never felt the damaging effects of a series of leg kicks and body kicks. Did you not notice Machida progressively slowing down and then stumbling around while covering up?
Here’s some examples of leg kicks winning fights:
- Shogun landed some good punches and elbows. Also, since when does defending take downs net you points? Getting a take down can, but defending one shouldn’t. Kind of like defending a submission shouldn’t win you points.
Not to be living in the past, but if this was Pride, Machida definitely would have lost on the “damage done” clause. Then again, even without damage, I would have thought Shogun would have won on the UFC’s “cage control” and aggression metric.
Anyway, I would have a hard time giving any round to Machida. I would give a slight edge to Shogun in the beginning just for landing more strikes and say he pulled away in the later rounds as Machida clearly started stumbling and covering up. Machida definitely landed a few strikes, but on a per round basis, I don’t think he ever dealt more damage than Shogun.
What did Lyoto do? He did nothing in that fight! Clearly Shogun did more damage. Neither fought a great fight, but at the end of the day Shogun, without question, did more damage, controlled every aspect of that fight.
Neither fought a good fight? Please tell me this was your first time watching MMA.
Shogun fought an amazing fight. He had a gameplan and stuck to it perfectly. I can see an argument that a judge might give round 1 to Machida because it was close and he is the champ. Round 3 possibly you can give to Machida for the flurry. But please tell me what he did in an y of Rounds 2, 4 and 5?[/quote]
I’ll give you that Shogun had a gamplan and stuck with it. I said before, no way did Machida win that fight, it was not even close. But Shogun could have pushed the action more.
Both guys respected the others power and didn’t take a lot of risks. While that may make for a good game plan, it doesn’t always make for a great fight. And this wasn’t a great fight. It also leaves you open to this kind of decesion, which was total fucking bullshit.
The rematch will not headline a PPV card.
[quote]Valor wrote:
The rematch will not headline a PPV card.[/quote]
LOL!
EDIT
Maybe I shouldn’t just “LOL”…but come on dude. What some argue as probably one of the worst decisions in MMA would no doubt be one of the most anticipated rematches.
I can understand if you’re just saying that the rematch will be a co-main event…BUT still I think it can headline a PPV card. People want to see this rematch…and soon.
[quote]Therizza wrote:
Anyone think something like compubox stats would help in decisions? Do they use them? Rua should have won the fight from the “effective striking” and “aggression” parts of the scoring explanation.[/quote]
The stats were posted in one of the early posts. Rua outstruck Machida in pretty much every round. That doesn’t always tell the whole picture though because the judges are judging based on the exchanges not the individual strikes.
[quote]Valor wrote:
I agree that Lyoto should some real toughness. I also think Shogun made the mistake of letting this fight go to the judges…[/quote]
Letting this fight go to the judges?
Shogun won hands down, that’s quite unanimous amongst MMA fans, but let’s not get carried away here.
When he got an opportunity, he did attempt to finish it, like when machida slipped, he was all over him in a split second.
[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
Valor wrote:
The rematch will not headline a PPV card.
LOL!
EDIT
Maybe I shouldn’t just “LOL”…but come on dude. What some argue as probably one of the worst decisions in MMA would no doubt be one of the most anticipated rematches.
I can understand if you’re just saying that the rematch will be a co-main event…BUT still I think it can headline a PPV card. People want to see this rematch…and soon. [/quote]
This isn’t about quality MMA matches, this is about what the average fan wants to see. What was the buy rate for Lesner’s last fight compared to this?
[quote]Valor wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
Valor wrote:
The rematch will not headline a PPV card.
LOL!
EDIT
Maybe I shouldn’t just “LOL”…but come on dude. What some argue as probably one of the worst decisions in MMA would no doubt be one of the most anticipated rematches.
I can understand if you’re just saying that the rematch will be a co-main event…BUT still I think it can headline a PPV card. People want to see this rematch…and soon.
This isn’t about quality MMA matches, this is about what the average fan wants to see. What was the buy rate for Lesner’s last fight compared to this?[/quote]
nevermind…LOL!
You’re talking in circles…last time I checked the average fan wants to see quality MMA matches…and I think the talk surrounding Machida/Shogun speaks for itself in people wanting to see a rematch. I don’t understand why you can’t see the obvious.
[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
Therizza wrote:
Anyone think something like compubox stats would help in decisions? Do they use them? Rua should have won the fight from the “effective striking” and “aggression” parts of the scoring explanation.
The stats were posted in one of the early posts. Rua outstruck Machida in pretty much every round. That doesn’t always tell the whole picture though because the judges are judging based on the exchanges not the individual strikes.[/quote]
Machida was timid and giving ground almost the entire fight. He didn’t establish anything. He hardly did any damage at all.
[quote]Im Yolked wrote:
Valor wrote:
I agree that Lyoto should some real toughness. I also think Shogun made the mistake of letting this fight go to the judges…
Letting this fight go to the judges?
Shogun won hands down, that’s quite unanimous amongst MMA fans, but let’s not get carried away here.
When he got an opportunity, he did attempt to finish it, like when machida slipped, he was all over him in a split second.
[/quote]
I think if you rewatch the 5th round you’ll see my point.
Not buying the argument that this wasn’t a robbery being justified by round by round scoring. One of those fucking judges scored round 4 for machida, really all i needed to know. Further, you’re telling me that almost every single credible media outlet (actually everyone i’ve seen or talked to) saw that fight for shogun, but on that night the fucking stars aligned and the three judges who scored the fight were the anomaly rather than the rule. I mean, I could see how it DID happen, but there is no way to justify that bullshit. machida did not do anything to justify a decision in his favor while shogun clearly did the most damage, controlled the pace of the fight, and took it to machida.
Just fuel to the fire, but…
Machida claims he won the first 4 rounds.
[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Nikiforos wrote:
ZEB wrote:
What he may have said to Shogun AFTER the fight is not nearly as important to me as what he said to the judges, or to people who talked to the judges BEFORE the fight. What do you think he had to gain by handing Bisping the win over Hamill when Hamill clearly won the fight? It’s called money, big ppv dollars from England. Similar motivation with a Machida win. He’s a big undefeated drawing card and Dana White will do whatever he can to keep the big money flowing in. Him saying what he said to Shogun after the fight is pure theater.
You really think Lyoto is more marketable than Shogun…? I disagree! Oh well.
I think this way for the following reasons:
-
Machida has a background in Karate and thus brings in more traditional karate fans, many who have thus far questioned mma. You know the guys, the ones who are saying things like, “in a street fight my sensei would beat Fedor, bla, bla, bla”. Well these guys now have a karate hero of their own who has climbed the mma ranks and is now champion. New fans mean new dollars and Dana White loves new dollars. Besides he is surrounded by mystique, a karate guy champion of the UFC? Someone who drinks his own urine? Okay, this guy is different and different sells tickets.
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Up until the Shogun fight Machida had not only never lost a fight in the UFC, but never even lost a round! That means more ppv hits when this guy fights. People want to see an undefeated fighter for two reasons, some want to see him lose the others win. Even though their was corrupt judging involved, many will tune in again to see Machida lose (or win) but they want to see him fight because of the bad call with the Shogun fight. Remember wanting to see Bisping get his head handed to him by Henderson?
There was no corrupt judging involved. I am telling you that as a 100% fact.[/quote] But you can’t as you don’t know every (or probably any) of the parties involved.[quote] Any proof comes out that the UFC has a hand in a corrupt decision and they are over, done, finished.[/quote]
Allow me to clarify this somewhat. The word corrput has many connotations. I am using as one that is “morally debased”. I’m not at all claiming that there was a pay off, or even that Dana White himself told any of the judges that he’d like to see Machida win. However, I think there is an understanding in advance. The judges know what Dana would like to see and play into that. One only has to look at the Bisping/Hamill decsion to realize that the judges, without any sort of urging from Dana, know which way to flip. White wanted that English ppv dollars and hence wanted to keep Bisping’s career alive. Bisping was always better than average but never deserved the promo’s he received. Why do you think they built him up? It was for the very same reason they gave him a victory when in fact he lost. It’s called MONEY.
Was the Machida/Shogun decsion corrupt?
YOU BET IT WAS!
Close fight, not really. Had there been one more round it looked to me like Machida would not have servived. How many rounds did Machida win? Every major sports organization which scored the fight gave it to Shogun, every one of them. Are they crazy? Did they all have a bad seat? Please.
[quote]
The scoring system in MMA needs to be improved[/quote]
I’ve seen only a few bad decisions. The ones I’ve seen seem to always help Dana White and company make more future money for the UFC, funny how that happens.
[quote]XiaoNio wrote:
Just fuel to the fire, but…
Machida claims he won the first 4 rounds.[/quote]
Yes, he does, and that’s actually funny.
Did anyone watch the post fight confernce. A reporter asked Machida how he felt about Shogun being the first fighter to push him and beat him up. He said he already had been in his sixth fight which we know is his fight with BJ PENN. Thought that was cool.