Trying... I Think

Diet and Nutrition
1

Long story short, I lost 40lbs from March 2012-August 2012. I was a serious fatty at 228lbs and only 5’9.5" but am now 5’11" and 189lbs. I am not skinny but everyone at school was like, “Dayum you lost weight man.” It’s great but after losing all that weight I want to start adding muscle. I am doing Kris Getin’s DTP to kick start this off as it looks pretty solid and is, so far, kicking my ass. Anyway, here is my nutrition:

Morning:
4 Egg Whites
Cup Oatmeal
Protein Shake mixed with Almond or Skim Milk

Morning Meal 2:
2tbs Natural Peanut Butter, Algood Natural Grape Jelly, Sara Lee Wheat Bread
Red Apple

Lunch: Brown Rice or Whole Wheat Pasta
Chicken Breast
Romaine Lettuce (1 serving) and sometimes a fruit
Olive Oil

Afternoon Meal 2 (1 hour before workout):
Greek Yogurt
Blueberries (2 servings)

Postworkout:
Glutamine/BCAA
Whey Protein
Skim or Almond Milk

Dinner (Post Workout Meal):
Carb: Sweet Potato or Brown Rice or Wheat Pasta (I cycle them)
Vegetable(2 servings): Romaine Salad or Asparagus
Almost Always Broccoli (2 servings)
Protein: Wild Caught Salmon or Sirloin Steak or Chicken (Cycle them, too)

Pre-Bed:
Casein with Almond or Skim Milk

So, how does this look to you guys for bulking? My overall macro break down is
190g of Protein
250-320g or Carb
45-75g of Fat
Calories: 2250-2800

As stated my goal is to bulk a lot but I really do not want to go through another weight loss, I feel great that I lost that much, and am BY NO MEANS THIN YET >:( , but seriously am not ready to go through it again. I can understand why some people fail, losing weight had to be one of the hardest things I have ever done. Temptations were everywhere and not looking like a fool while carrying around that food to work or anywhere really was hard, I knew it was all for the best though. :smiley:

2

Follow for 2 weeks and assess your progress. If not gaining, very first thing I would do is eat the WHOLE damn egg.

The next thing I would do is include more veggies.

If still not gaining after switching to whole eggs or it stalls, then go for whole milk if you don’t have any problems with milk consumption, though I’m not a fan of regular milk consumption.

Essentially, I’d include more veggies and fat in the diet if not gaining. Look to throw a TBSP of coconut oil in one of your shakes as well at some point and/or nuts.

Key is follow what you have laid out now and reassess.

3

So I did good? :smiley:
And I am going to be getting a can of unsalted mixed nuts to have around for snacking in between meals because I get hungry and would love to be able to just grab a few nuts.

4

At 5’11" and 189 lbs, 2800 calories per day is pretty low for bulking. We all have unique metabolisms no doubt but you may want to consider upping your calories.

Look up an energy expenditure calculator encompassing your training and day to day expenditure. Won’t link other sites but they are easy to search. Not an exact science but will give you general guidelines to consider and you can make personal adjustments as you get in to it. Remember to eat over your maintenance level, how much over depends on personal factors you will be calculating for.

Also if low fat, high carb is the diet style you prefer, check out a guy named Ellington Darden. He was an understudy of Arthur Jones (nautilus) and successfully coached body builders on his own after working with some legends while at nautilus (Mentzers, Viator most notably). Anyways, he recommends a carb dominant diet and reading his stuff as it seems to mesh with you might be helpful.

Not to mention the article archive on this site.

5

Alright, sounds good. The only reason I am doing a low fat/high carb is because I was recommend to try it as it works for a lot of serious teen builders. Kris Gethin’s DTP is only a 4 week program and seems like a great place to start but I have been told that people actually see great added size with it. The program being 4 weeks I figure I will do this nutrition style of low fat/high carb for a few weeks and if it works then I will stick with, otherwise I will add nuts to several meals for the fat/protein content.

6

Uhm…I am scared now. I am using an energy expenditure calculator that claims I burn, roughly, 3500 calories a day. I know I am only 16 but when I was losing weight I had to eat about 1850 calories a day to lose 2-3 lbs a week. I cannot imagine that eating 3400cal a day would do anything but make me fat again. As you can tell I am very scared of putting bad weight back on so for now I will stick with 2500cal a day, minimum, and go up 500cal if I do not see any results.

I have a separate question though. Is it possible I am losing weight while still putting muscle on, I know some people may think this sounds crazy but Kris directly talks about how he loses fat and still goes up in muscle mass when he does a 6 week DTP. I am not saying I will but you have to think, I am 16 at 189lbs. Still around 18% body fat. Now I do not have a constant body fat calculator or anything but you get my point.

7

Low fat, high carb diets do work, just through different pathways than low carb, high fat.

I do understand your hesitancy but you should know building muscle is metabolically expensive. As much as you had to cut calories to lose mass, you need to provide calories to create it. If you are following gethin’s routines, your body will appropriate energy to building muscle instead of fat but it does need energy to do so.

Again, 3500 to maintain isn’t set in stone but if I were you, I would start there for a few weeks and see what my body did, then adjust up or down. And I’m guessing up.

8

This is why I said follow your plan and adjust. Focusing on all the bullshit in internet/fitness land you’ll drive yourself nuts and likely just spin your wheels.

Follow said plan, adjust, fuck what any calculator says.

And if you want some nuts to grab, I hope you’re not a in frat.

9

Also, at 18% bf, I would say you are still in cutting mode. See a thread titled “psychology of feeling small while cutting” in the bodybuilding forum. Give it a few pages and it will apply.

10

Shit, and to answer your question:

I do think it is possible. You should check out this sites Chris Shugart and his Velocity diet too.

11

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
This is why I said follow your plan and adjust. Focusing on all the bullshit in internet/fitness land you’ll drive yourself nuts and likely just spin your wheels.

Follow said plan, adjust, fuck what any calculator says.

And if you want some nuts to grab, I hope you’re not a in frat.[/quote]
Lol, don’t follow scientifically backed tools, just grab nuts because I, a 150 lb dude according to posts in another thread said so on the internet.

Talk about bullshit on the internet.

Anyways, making personal adjustments is smart, nobody disagrees. It is just smarter to start at a more likely vantage point for growth.

However, at 18% you still shouldn’t be focusing on bulking, imo.

12

I went and read the “Psychology of feeling small while cutting” thread seems to be aimed more at the guys who thought they were getting strong when they were, really, just fat. (sounds like the varsity football team) Anyway, I am not worried about losing muscle or anything with cutting, it’s just after 5 months of dieting and going to the gym, with no deviation form what I was doing, I feel beat and out of it. I figure going through a bulking phase will get me re-energized and ready to go at it again.

13

My $.02:

Honestly the diet looks okay (ie good balance of whole foods, whey, veggies, etc.) Like others have said, try it for a while, access, and make changes accordingly. Get your body fat measured every few weeks and see if you are gaining muscle and losing fat and adjust your macros accordingly.

Since you didn’t mention much about training, I am assuming you lost most of that weight through diet and cardio. At your age, I think the best thing to do would be to learn to squat PROPERLY, and hit that hard and heavy twice a week. Seriously, but the book Starting Strengh, Rip knows his shit. If you squat hard and get plenty of protein and carbs before, during, and after your workout, trust me, you will pack on muscle.

14

[quote]CargoCapable wrote:

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
This is why I said follow your plan and adjust. Focusing on all the bullshit in internet/fitness land you’ll drive yourself nuts and likely just spin your wheels.

Follow said plan, adjust, fuck what any calculator says.

And if you want some nuts to grab, I hope you’re not a in frat.[/quote]
Lol, don’t follow scientifically backed tools, just grab nuts because I, a 150 lb dude according to posts in another thread said so on the internet.

Talk about bullshit on the internet.

Anyways, making personal adjustments is smart, nobody disagrees. It is just smarter to start at a more likely vantage point for growth.

However, at 18% you still shouldn’t be focusing on bulking, imo.[/quote]

Nothing you said has any relevance to the advice I gave… And maybe I’m mistaken, but aren’t you the same guy that told someone to “boost” their metabolism to jump rope after they run a 5k… apologies if you’re not, if you are, pot/kettle

I agree with your point about OP bulking if he is 18% BF, but who am I to say what he should or shouldn’t do if it’s what he wants. I just provided advice to his original question about his diet.

While I think it has room for improvement, no one really knows till he tries it.

15

[quote]CargoCapable wrote:

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
This is why I said follow your plan and adjust. Focusing on all the bullshit in internet/fitness land you’ll drive yourself nuts and likely just spin your wheels.

Follow said plan, adjust, fuck what any calculator says.

And if you want some nuts to grab, I hope you’re not a in frat.[/quote]
Lol, don’t follow scientifically backed tools, just grab nuts because I, a 150 lb dude according to posts in another thread said so on the internet.

Talk about bullshit on the internet.

Anyways, making personal adjustments is smart, nobody disagrees. It is just smarter to start at a more likely vantage point for growth.

However, at 18% you still shouldn’t be focusing on bulking, imo.[/quote]

More specifically I didn’t care for his “just grab some nuts if I’m hungry” as they can add a lot of extra calories… I was more taking a jab at the “grab nuts” immaturity on my part :wink:

16

1/ What kind of training are you doing ? bodybuilding routine ? strength training ? what is your experience with lifting ? do you squat heavy, dl heavy, bench heavy a lot or are you a rookie ?

2/ Your maintenance level is at least equal as what you are eating now for bulking.

3/ Shakes are the source of nearly 50% of your protein intake. This is too much. More steak.

4/ you will gain fat during your bulk but you won’t wake up with 20 pds of fresh fat. Relax, watch and adapt, and lift basically with heavy full body lifts.

17

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:

[quote]CargoCapable wrote:

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
This is why I said follow your plan and adjust. Focusing on all the bullshit in internet/fitness land you’ll drive yourself nuts and likely just spin your wheels.

Follow said plan, adjust, fuck what any calculator says.

And if you want some nuts to grab, I hope you’re not a in frat.[/quote]
Lol, don’t follow scientifically backed tools, just grab nuts because I, a 150 lb dude according to posts in another thread said so on the internet.

Talk about bullshit on the internet.

Anyways, making personal adjustments is smart, nobody disagrees. It is just smarter to start at a more likely vantage point for growth.

However, at 18% you still shouldn’t be focusing on bulking, imo.[/quote]

Nothing you said has any relevance to the advice I gave… And maybe I’m mistaken, but aren’t you the same guy that told someone to “boost” their metabolism to jump rope after they run a 5k… apologies if you’re not, if you are, pot/kettle

I agree with your point about OP bulking if he is 18% BF, but who am I to say what he should or shouldn’t do if it’s what he wants. I just provided advice to his original question about his diet.

While I think it has room for improvement, no one really knows till he tries it.[/quote]
The point I made which you seem to think is internet “bullshit” is that for a 5’11" 189 lb male on a bulk, 2,500 calories will not cut it. He’s not even at maintenance. While his diet is fine considering nutrient choices he is better off starting with a higher calorie diet and adjusting as necessary. Perhaps some people are confused on terminology?

He’s so far from the mark he will be wasting significant time on his very short bulk routine if he isn’t at least close to his caloric needs. This absolutely ties in to what you’ve said. A scientifically backed expenditure calculator will absolutely be closer to the mark than you telling him 2,500 calories is fine for a bulk and “hey, just grab some nuts some times”. It’s unlikely his body will tap his fat reserves while preserving muscle and especially building muscle if he is significantly under maintenance on a bulking style lifting routine. He is headed for catabolism and frustration.

And I absolutely did recommend jumping rope after a 5k in a thread asking for tips to boost metabolism. Mixing a low intensity activity with high intensity is highly effective at burning calories, elevating metabolism and boosting EPOC. Just saying “that’s stoopid” after an author disagrees (most likely to pitch himself and the theories he sells, drops in a bucket) and carrying what you feel will safely be the popular opinion because of it is stupid.

A 5k isn’t all that taxing and, just like a weight room, you need variety, volume and increased workload to advance. 3 miles would be like hitting the 200 lb bench press benchmark in the conditioning world. Stick with bench only and you will eventually plateau. Add some dips and see if you don’t continue growing.

The body will adapt to a 5k a day too, including the metabolism. You do the math. It isn’t complicated and shouldn’t take an explanation.

18

[quote]RootX wrote:
1/ What kind of training are you doing ? bodybuilding routine ? strength training ? what is your experience with lifting ? do you squat heavy, dl heavy, bench heavy a lot or are you a rookie ?

2/ Your maintenance level is at least equal as what you are eating now for bulking.

3/ Shakes are the source of nearly 50% of your protein intake. This is too much. More steak.

4/ you will gain fat during your bulk but you won’t wake up with 20 pds of fresh fat. Relax, watch and adapt, and lift basically with heavy full body lifts.[/quote]

I have to disagree with 3. Try taking in 300+ g protein every day from lean meats. Some days your jaw just needs a break.

19

Alright first off, I was joking when I said grab some nuts guys, I have mixed nuts actually fit into my diet as they seem to keep me full and they work. Currently I am eating 3200cal and am going to go get my body fat tested in like 2 days. Also, I do not get frustrated with myself body wise because I was pissed off when I saw I was 228lbs of, mostly, fat. I am just happy to be down to where I am, not really satisfied yet which is why I am probably just going to stop bulking for the moment and keep cutting.

It just seems a little more logical considering how many people seem to be flipping their lids about my 18% bf. I will do 12 more weeks of cutting, I already know the plan I am following and everything. Also, I do not design my own workout plans because A) I am still a rookie, only been in the gym for 6 months of which I was only doing 3 days lifting and 4 days of cardio B) There are loads of decent plans on the internet, which, sure they are not designed for me but they are a lot better than me making a plan and I screw up a muscle or something

20

[quote]Sn4zzle wrote:
Alright first off, I was joking when I said grab some nuts guys, I have mixed nuts actually fit into my diet as they seem to keep me full and they work. Currently I am eating 3200cal and am going to go get my body fat tested in like 2 days. Also, I do not get frustrated with myself body wise because I was pissed off when I saw I was 228lbs of, mostly, fat. I am just happy to be down to where I am, not really satisfied yet which is why I am probably just going to stop bulking for the moment and keep cutting.

It just seems a little more logical considering how many people seem to be flipping their lids about my 18% bf. I will do 12 more weeks of cutting, I already know the plan I am following and everything. Also, I do not design my own workout plans because A) I am still a rookie, only been in the gym for 6 months of which I was only doing 3 days lifting and 4 days of cardio B) There are loads of decent plans on the internet, which, sure they are not designed for me but they are a lot better than me making a plan and I screw up a muscle or something [/quote]

This, in my opinion, is good. Hopefully you realize the “grab some nuts” comment wasn’t an attack. It was pointing out the stupidity of one poster recommending guesswork over scientifically backed tools of measurement, and with attitude.

Following pre-written plans is a great idea as they too remove guess work and are excellent tools in the same vein until you learn enough to put your own together.

In the beginner forum on this site, TC (the editor) has a must read thread linking two articles from Christian Thibedeaux (sp?) that are full of general information. I suggest you read them purely for educational purposes as you are on a routine and should absolutely stick it through.

The info. to be inferred from the “psychology of feeling small” thread is that fat levels over 15% are generally are considered high by people who clearly know their stuff. Some of those guys are competitive bodybuilders.

As you measure your fat, remember it is a percentage solving for lean mass too. Even if fat does increase alongside muscle you are looking at a ratio.

Cutting and bulking are two totally different goals though. Again, to cut size you do need calorie reductions but to build you need a surplus over maintenance, lifting causes your body to build muscle with them instead of storing fat.

If you are going to continue cutting 3,200 is still below maintenance so you will lose but if results slow or halt, reduce again. I know this may sound confusing but cutting and bulking are heads and tails different. You have to separate the two goals and the steps to each.

I do think you’re on the right track.