Truth About Bulking and Dave Tate

Training Bodybuilding
141

Keeping in mind the medium by which we are communicating my advice would be to continue to train hard and eat enough calories so that you are gaining weight.
A lean 200 for a goal is fine. I would say get to a not so lean 210-220 and then drop some weight/fat. Realistically, you could be at or near your goal physique by next late spring/early summer.

Look to gain a pound or so a week. 3lbs a month. Seeing as you consider yourself not to thin right now, this will allow for continued muscle development and limit some of your fat gain. Realistically, this puts you at 205-215 by then end of April. At that point you could decide what your goal will be. You may surprise yourself and decide that you still want to get bigger. You may be uncomfortable and want to drop 15-20lbs. [/quote]

I appreciate the advice guys. I think I will try to hit 215 by the end of april and where to go from there.

142

[quote]Ramo wrote:
Roland:

You’ve questioned my intelligence, reading skills, reasoning ability, and some other stuff. You say that I’ve missed your point, or that I’ve failed to address it. I must admit that you are right. I happen not to care in the least what your point was.

The thing is, with regard to building muscle, a person in your position has no business making points. You should be learning from people who actually HAVE SOME MUSCLE!

As for my point, it was this: When I first discovered this forum, there were a number of serious lifters posting here. Jay Floyd, Ross Bowsher, Patricia Smith, Landon Evans, Erica from Diablo, even Whit Baskin posted once in awhile(former WSM competitor). These people have all actually accomplished something as lifters. They got sick of the forum and left precisely BECAUSE OF PEOPLE LIKE YOU.

You are a mental masturbator. You are not a lifter. You don’t sound anything like a lifter, and I’ll bet you don’t look anything like one.

If it were up to me you wouldn’t frequent these (or any other) strength/lifting forums any more. Of course, it’s not up to me. So I posted because I feel, and I think there’s some sentiment here among REAL LIFTERS, that there are too many mental masturbators here. You don’t contribute anything worthwhile; you just have an opinion that you think is fit to share with serious lifters. Guess what? None of us want to hear it, if that means anything to you.

If you really wanted to get better at whatever your pursuit (bodybuilding/powerlifting/underwear modeling, whatever), you would talk less, listen more, and pour a little of the effort you expend being a jackass on the internet into lifting some heavy shit.

All the best.

You fucking clown.[/quote]

Nice, you chose a personal attack rather than respond to my questions or points.

Good luck in all that you do.

143

[quote]Roland Fisher wrote:

Nice, you chose a personal attack rather than respond to my questions or points.

Good luck in all that you do.[/quote]

Just to make a point, if you walked into a gym and approached a group of guys all weighing over 260lbs who were all doing squats at the time (eacg of which had arms about as large as your thighs), how many do you think would be interested in your points?

144

[quote]Ramo wrote:
As for my point, it was this: When I first discovered this forum, there were a number of serious lifters posting here. Jay Floyd, Ross Bowsher, Patricia Smith, Landon Evans, Erica from Diablo, even Whit Baskin posted once in awhile(former WSM competitor). These people have all actually accomplished something as lifters. They got sick of the forum and left precisely BECAUSE OF PEOPLE LIKE YOU.[/quote]

I spoke with one of the afore mentioned serious lifters a couple of years ago at a meet I was lifting in.

The person I spoke with told me they quit posting because the site had ceased being a sanctuary for hardcore lifters and was being morphed into more of a mainstream men’s health type of enviroment to attract a larger customer base. This person didn’t seem to be harboring any animosity about the situation, simply wasn’t their cup of tea anymore.

145

[quote]Professor X wrote:
<<<I think those who approach this as if they have forever to make very small amounts of progress are approaching this wrong. No one accidentally gets huge after being much smaller.[/quote]

This very thing has been an itch in my brain lately. I refuse to die before I weigh a reasonably lean 240 at least and I’ve wasted too much time already. I will get there, but not on egg whites and low fat yogurt.

146

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Your body doesn’t grow linearly. You may go a couple of months making very slow progress but then increase in weight and strength rapidly over the course of a week.

The guy holding back on his intake or otherwise not eating enough to supercompensate during that time period would miss out on that period of faster growth. The person getting their body fat percentage checked weekly is no doubt going to fall into the same trap.

If anything, the mirror and pictures should be your greatest tool when gaining along with strength increases. Worrying about the specific numbers too much that often can set you back in the long run in terms of lean body mass. That mass is fluxuent and based on many factors that could skew results from body hydration to how many carbs you took in that week.[/quote]

Hey Prof, we’ve disagreed on some stuff, but this is the most intelligent post in the entire thread. The fact that you don’t grow linearly and may have “growth spurts” is the best argument for eating everything in sight even if there is a risk of gaining lots of fat.

147

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Roland Fisher wrote:

Nice, you chose a personal attack rather than respond to my questions or points.

Good luck in all that you do.

Just to make a point, if you walked into a gym and approached a group of guys all weighing over 260lbs who were all doing squats at the time (eacg of which had arms about as large as your thighs), how many do you think would be interested in your points?[/quote]

None, not while working out, but I’ve been involved with groups that included a few of the guys you describe and we actually discussed training like adults over a beer or after the session. They didn’t listen to me, they listened to reason. An idea worth thinking about is an idea worth thinking about regardless of it’s source.

I’ll also note that I never once tried to give advice on this thread. Not once. All I did is present a couple of points that not one person was able to refute, not one person showed a flaw in any of my points… save you actually, you responded to one of my posts that gave me pause for thought.

Most others just responded like teenagers. I was surprised to click on their profile to learn that they are older than 17. A few, yourself, sasquatch, tiribulus, etc. made good points without showing the maturity of drunk donkey.

This is an internet forum, people are only reading words, nothing else can be verified. A wiser person will read a post and respond, if they wish, to the post, nothing more, nothing less. Someone who cannot respond to the words are just not getting that we are in a forum of words on screen.

Professor, I respect, hell even admire you for your logical posts that show great experience and intelligence. Not once did I give you advice, in fact I was explaining a point that ended up being almost exactly the same as yours.

Ramo claims to be a law student, the profession of argument, yet he has shown the reasoning skills of a child. I hope he never argues in court like he did here, he would end up very embarrassed indeed.

In the end, I cannot see a reason to present any ideas here, this is not bodybuildings think tank, it is bodybuildings playschool.

So many of you may do a dance of joy, you won’t have any posts from me that actually challenge you, you may go on enjoying the juvenile back slapping.

By the way X, that isn’t directed at you… even though I’d guess you’d rather I leave too, lol.

Later.

148

You hone those debate skills man, they’ll have you HYOOOOGE in no time.

149

[quote]Roland Fisher wrote:
In the end, I cannot see a reason to present any ideas here, this is not bodybuildings think tank, it is bodybuildings playschool.

So many of you may do a dance of joy, you won’t have any posts from me that actually challenge you, you may go on enjoying the juvenile back slapping.

By the way X, that isn’t directed at you… even though I’d guess you’d rather I leave too, lol.

Later.[/quote]

Who have you challenged? This is a BODYBUILDING FORUM. I could truly care less what every guy under 160lbs has to say about bodybuilding regardless of how much they claim to know. Why? because they have no clue what it is even like to build your body to the degree I am after.

Theory has its place…but not in front of experience. Just like any doctor will tell you that the learning process doesn’t really take place until AFTER school is over, theory is baseless without any experience to back it up.

If your argument is that we don’t want to learn, you couldn’t be farther from the truth. I read BOOKS on the subject while getting my biology degree in college. My basic understanding of physiology is better than most people’s will ever be. That is because I wanted to learn everything involved. That is what makes me laugh even more at guys who are newbies, have only read a couple of authors, yet think they know enough to “school” guys much bigger and stronger than they are who have lifted years longer.

It’s laughable. That doesn’t mean you should leave. It means you need to learn to shut the fuck up sometimes and learn your damn self…very often from the same guys you think don’t know much but outweigh you by 60lbs.

150

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Roland Fisher wrote:
In the end, I cannot see a reason to present any ideas here, this is not bodybuildings think tank, it is bodybuildings playschool.

So many of you may do a dance of joy, you won’t have any posts from me that actually challenge you, you may go on enjoying the juvenile back slapping.

By the way X, that isn’t directed at you… even though I’d guess you’d rather I leave too, lol.

Later.

Who have you challenged? This is a BODYBUILDING FORUM. I could truly care less what every guy under 160lbs has to say about bodybuilding regardless of how much they claim to know. Why? because they have no clue what it is even like to build your body to the degree I am after.

Theory has its place…but not in front of experience. Just like any doctor will tell you that the learning process doesn’t really take place until AFTER school is over, theory is baseless without any experience to back it up.

If your argument is that we don’t want to learn, you couldn’t be farther from the truth. I read BOOKS on the subject while getting my biology degree in college. My basic understanding of physiology is better than most people’s will ever be. That is because I wanted to learn everything involved. That is what makes me laugh even more at guys who are newbies, have only read a couple of authors, yet think they know enough to “school” guys much bigger and stronger than they are who have lifted years longer.

It’s laughable. That doesn’t mean you should leave. It means you need to learn to shut the fuck up sometimes and learn your damn self…very often from the same guys you think don’t know much but outweigh you by 60lbs.[/quote]

A: I’m not under 160
B: I’m not a newbie, I do have years of experience
C: I have an advanced education in kinesiology yet ask more questions than I answer
D: I wasn’t giving any advice, not once
E: I never once said or even implied that I know more than you or anyone else here
F: Many here don’t know how to respond to a post without emotional attachment which leads them to false conclusions, false assumptions, and reveals themselves as know it alls.

You’ve implied I’m a know it all, you’ve said I need to shut the fuck up and learn, I never once gave advice!. All I did was post some points that very few even read before jumping all over me.

I assume that you won’t read this either before asserting you are hooooooge and everyone else should shut the fuck up.

If you had fucking read anything, you’d know I agreed with you all the fucking way.

Have your bodybuilding forum, the quality of discussion here is nil.

Roland.

151

Weren’t you supposed to be leaving or something? Bye.

152

Wow, where the fuck have I been? I spent the last 2 days bulking, and missed this whole thread.

Some people will always be more concerned with being lean all year, and because of it, they will sacrifice putting on a lot of muscle. Some of those people may…(I’m sorry to use this phrase)…not want to get too huge. They may actually like looking like the underwear model.

However, they may also possess the skills and knowledge to put on quality muscle. You can’t assume that everyone wants to be 275 and ripped.

Having said that, I am not one of those people, 275 and ripped sounds just fine. I do understand the fear of eating too much and getting too fat. If you’ve been there, you have probably had the same fear at some point. However, most of those people got too fat from eating sloppy and not training hard enough.

I’ve found (as have most of you, I’m sure) that you can eat a surprisingly large amount of food, as long as it is relatively clean, and not gain too much fat. Paired with the right lifting mentality, you can put on a significant amount of muscle with a tolerable amount of fat. You can always lose that later.

I think it is important to realize that not everyone is going to have the same goal as you or me. That doesn’t mean the lack knowledge or motivation, they may just have different goals.

But, if your goal is to get huge. In my opinion, you can’t be afraid of gaining a little fat. It’s just the nature of the beast.

153

[quote]Roland Fisher wrote:
A: I’m not under 160[/quote]

You’re damned close. Why quibble?

[quote]
B: I’m not a newbie, I do have years of experience[/quote]

Why are you 160 lbs.?

[quote]
C: I have an advanced education in kinesiology yet ask more questions than I answer[/quote]

Since you haven’t been able to put this knowledge to use, why bring it up?

You were giving your (worthless) opinion. Same thing.

But you just mentioned that “advanced degree.” Funny.

In some subjects (like applied sciences like bodybuilding), you can’t separate the speaker from his ideas.

Unless you are big or have trained people who are big, your “advanced degree” and “years of experience” are worthless pieces of paper.

You’re like a lawyer who has never tried a case giving advice to Gerry Spence on how to try cases. “But I aced trial skills in law school!” would not impress any trial lawyer.

Similiarly, this advanced degree and alleged years of training experience mean nothing.

154

[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
You’re like a lawyer who has never tried a case giving advice to Gerry Spence on how to try cases. “But I aced trial skills in law school!” would not impress any trial lawyer.
[/quote]

That analogy is PERFECT. One can talk theory all you want, but unless one has walked the walk (i.e. bulked up himself or bulked up a ton of clients) one’s advice is pretty much worthless.

155

This was a very good thread before it went down the shitter.

156

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

If you needed to be told, in the year 2006, that it takes pharmaceutically enhanced exceptional genetics to perform at the top of the pro ranks then OK. I’m going to grab me some gear and a Bowflex now. I’ll see ya at next years Olympia.[/quote]

Lol. Great words Trib. Maybe I can make it to the Masters with Deca and my 7 spring chest expander.

157

[quote]aussie486 wrote:
This was a very good thread before it went down the shitter.[/quote]

Actually there are a few jewels in the cesspool. You just have to look long and deep.

158

There is still almost nothing to do at work for about one more day, so what the hell, I’ll respond.

[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Roland Fisher wrote:
A: I’m not under 160

You’re damned close. Why quibble?
[/quote]You have no idea or way to verify, your point means nothing.[quote]

B: I’m not a newbie, I do have years of experience

Why are you 160 lbs.?
[/quote]See above, plus my weight is irrelevant, I was only addressing it because of the context of the post I answered to another poster. Read not your post. But if you need to know, I don’t mind sharing, I’m skinny fat and heavier, due to injuries that left me unable to walk or lift my arms I got really pathetic fast.[quote]

C: I have an advanced education in kinesiology yet ask more questions than I answer

Since you haven’t been able to put this knowledge to use, why bring it up?
[/quote]I have, you keep making claims that you cannot possible know, this really reduces your credibility.[quote]

D: I wasn’t giving any advice, not once

You were giving your (worthless) opinion. Same thing.
[/quote]Maybe for you opinion equals advice, sorry to hear, it must be quite frustrating to not know the difference.[quote]

E: I never once said or even implied that I know more than you or anyone else here

But you just mentioned that “advanced degree.” Funny.
[/quote]It was addressing the specific post. Also by mentioning it I still didn’t imply that I know more, if you feel that it does imply that, I’m sorry to hear about your insecurity.[quote]

F: Many here don’t know how to respond to a post without emotional attachment which leads them to false conclusions, false assumptions, and reveals themselves as know it alls.

In some subjects (like applied sciences like bodybuilding), you can’t separate the speaker from his ideas.
[/quote]Why? Ideas stand alone, and on any internet forum you do not have access to the person to begin with.[quote]

Unless you are big or have trained people who are big, your “advanced degree” and “years of experience” are worthless pieces of paper.
[/quote]Finally a point that makes sense, no matter how irrelevant.[quote]

You’re like a lawyer who has never tried a case giving advice to Gerry Spence on how to try cases. “But I aced trial skills in law school!” would not impress any trial lawyer.
[/quote]I suggest you look up analogies in the dictionary. This one is missed used, it has too many assumptions that are not true, or verifiable for that matter.[quote]

Similiarly, this advanced degree and alleged years of training experience mean nothing.[/quote]

Agreed, but not the point, it has nothing to do with bulking.

You’ve said nothing.

159

[quote]alownage wrote:
CaliforniaLaw wrote:
You’re like a lawyer who has never tried a case giving advice to Gerry Spence on how to try cases. “But I aced trial skills in law school!” would not impress any trial lawyer.

That analogy is PERFECT. One can talk theory all you want, but unless one has walked the walk (i.e. bulked up himself or bulked up a ton of clients) one’s advice is pretty much worthless.[/quote]

I think that you missed that I didn’t give any advice.

160

[quote]aussie486 wrote:
This was a very good thread before it went down the shitter.[/quote]

Agreed 100%, now I’m responding because I am stuck at work with nothing to do… I would have thought it would be more fun.