It is a forum. Very few forums just like businesses have zero rules. I’m certainly free to go into wal-mart and shout all sorts of horrible things but they are free to kick me out. It’s not some “loophole.” Been that way for a long time and pretty common knowledge here in the US.
T-Nation is incredibly lenient compared to most places but it’s in the terms of service what is and isn’t acceptable. Doesn’t mean every little offense to that is changed and I think Chris really doesn’t want to step in ever but he will certainly do so if necessary. And by making a username and posting on the forum we agree to those terms and services. You probably checked a box when making your name. Been so long since I made my account I can’t remember.
A bit of a stretch to equate the societal need of say unemployment insurance (which is actually funded by someone’s contribution) and the thought of hey everyone deserves $2000 a month from the government because participation trophy. Or the usefulness of citizens being adequately educated to a society. Or commonly funded transportation system. Or abject poor need food/medicine.
These are what humans do collectively. Me demanding more of the income you are earning to educate and raise your children, and then buying a 4’ longer RV is against the fabric of this society.
The Bible is all I need here - he that won’t work, shall not eat & when you take care of the least of these, the widows and orphans, you have done it for me.
Not sidetracked by your non question.
You went to church for 20 years, and know that means those unable to fend for themselves - for those that didnt go to church
LOL, so it is subjective depending on if you determine if they should or shouldn’t be able to work. Old veteran with PTSD on the streets should go apply at McDonalds, but the old widow of course can’t work.
I think creating a system that is objective is better than relying on people’s interpretations of unclear and often contradicting instructions found in the Bible.
Don’t get me wrong, the church has done good things for the poor. However, I think if it was all on the church, things would be a lot worse for the people who can’t help themselves.
This might come as a surprise, but I don’t think it’s black and white. I don’t think we can have a survival of the fittest approach to the economy or politics in general. Could we tell American workers that they have to get paid as little and work under the same conditions as Chinese workers?
I get the gist of the passages. The issue is that there are things that very few people understand when it comes to being able to work. Mental health issues can hide under the surface of a capable body. Those people were largely ignored as lazy bums for most of history. Many people following the teachings of the Bible left these people behind.
The survival or prosperity of the fittest thing isn’t appealing on the whole for me. Sure I think productive people should be rewarded, but that doesn’t have to mean that the less productive people get left behind to live under a bridge.
Many people still (supposedly) following the teachings of the Bible continue to leave these folks behind. I personally know pastors and folks in some denominations that truly believe all mental health issues can be traced to “not being right with God” regardless of the amount of literature that comes out showing it is mostly tied to chemical processes in the brain.
I will also restate that I think the church has done many good things. However, in this example as you have said, the teachings of the Bible have not been enough. Perhaps they are misinterpreted, or not followed, but at the end of the day it isn’t enough.
I have heard more extreme evangelicals who hate paying taxes for social safety net type programs say they think the church should handle it all. That would be fine if those people didn’t want to abandon the mentally ill, and actually had a means to support the people who need the help. Until that happens, I think the government should have a role in creating a society in which those people are not left behind. We are not where we should be IMO with the government plus the church and other charities, but we should strive to improve.
One thing these “freedom fighters” seem to have in common is an utter ignorance of how things work. One guy sent a selfie from the Capitol to his girlfriend’s brother… who is a federal agent. Cameras everywhere, yeah, that’s exactly when you want to commit a crime.
There are literally billions of Christians now and past, living the precepts of the Bible, who help others, attempt to live righteous lives, accept the downtrodden in their many forms and disavow get rich preachers etc.
Using a tiny minority that I also disagree with, doesn’t firm up a weak argument
I know lots of them similar to what you describe. Many of them take the “you don’t work, you don’t eat” passage literally. Some of them seem to think that helping the homeless is doing them a disservice.
Do you think we would be better off just allowing the Church and charities handle all the needs of the needy?
I think the number of won’t work is far overstated and long has been. I’m not saying the number is 0 but I think the pull yourself up by the bootstraps crowd thinks most people who can work don’t. Many people who don’t work can’t. And some that don’t work in an area don’t because the area they live in has shit jobs. It’s why western Kansas is dependent on illegal immigration. These are terribly taxing jobs that pay like shit. I mean we can say lazy Americans this that and whatever all day long, but many of us on here are probably lying to ourselves if we say oh I’d go do that. I’m not sure I think the answer is make conditions so bad for people that they want to go do shitty jobs with shitty pay just so we can say well at least people are working if they can! Instead of looking to improve jobs and wages to incentivize that effort.
Plus when you dig into the numbers you realize that in some of these “actual labor percentage” they
Also many parts of our economy are designed to separate poor and/or poorly educated people from their money. And politicians make careers out of convincing people that things would be better for these people if only it wasn’t for “this” problem. Which is often centered around poor/uneducated people that have a different identifier (race, sex, etc). It’s why I see so many Trump fans right now talking about the high stock market numbers on my Facebook when they are poor and the vast majority likely don’t have any money in the market.
It’s almost never centered around the incredibly wealthy. That’s why we’ve convinced poor people that if only the super rich weren’t taxed highly things would be better. It would all come down to them. Or that an increase in wages for our poorest workers is a death sentence for all business owners without looking at the difference between mom and pop store down the street and a giant corporation with executive salaries increasing non stop for decades.
I would agree with this though I would say it’s very true for people who aren’t Christian as well. I’m not and my entire job is working to help the downtrodden. And many of the things my wife and I do unpaid to help in these areas.
At the same time I don’t think it’s bad to point out that some religious people do what I was talking about and separate people from their money. They have large political influence and these churches have been a grift for a long time. These people are hypocrites and cons to the highest level. The main reason they are viewed as worse is because of how obvious it is.