TRT “add on” made me feel good

Pharma / TRT
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Some background - before I got on TRT I had a long illness in 2018 that was a mystery for a few months. It caused muscle wasting, flu like symptoms, and low energy hungover feeling - plus it wrecked my hormone profile.

I got on TRT after that and that did help to add weight back on and make me feel better, but I tried this compound before getting on prescription TRT in an effort to heal as this has a GH Secreteogouge

I won’t list the product by name (not sure if that’s against board rules) but it was OTC … below is the ingredient profile

Anamorelin - 50mg
MK677 - 25mg
LGD-4033 - 10mg
RAD140 - 20mg
Methyldiazirinol - 30mg
M1T - 5mg
5 alpha hydroxy laxogenin - 25mg

If I recall correctly I took one pill PWO and one before bed. I slept really well on this and got much stronger in a hurry (was on it for one month).

I am not promoting taking this product, but I am curious why I felt so good on it. I have heard a lot of guys say they felt their mood lift - or their anxiety or depression resolve - once their TRT kicks in, and I am curious if the androgens in this pill did that for me. I felt calm, no general anxiety, and I didn’t need adderall or AdHd meds while taking this, so I would assume this affected Dopamine levels?

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My advice, stay as natural as you can, don’t become overly preventative as it might come back to bite you. If you have a deficiency and something that you cannot resolve through dietary changes, then supplement.

You may be compensating for something else amiss, search for the reason why you need these substance to feel optimal and fix that directly.

RAD140 can cause liver injury.

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A good common practice is to not take things which have only ever been clinically tested on lab rats.

I’m not saying it won’t work, I’m saying we don’t know what the long term effects of it are.

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I want to point out that some of these substances are either true anabolic steroids and others are SARMs which have similar side effects to steroids (while being less potent). Let’s look at some of the ingredients:

MK677 - 25mg: This is a nasty one. It is a growth hormone secretagogue. Which means that it increases your production of growth hormone. This obviously sounds good. BUT the main problem is that it will KILL your insulin sensitivity and lead to high blood sugar. See, growth hormone does increase the release of the glucose stored in the muscles and send it to the blood stream (btw, that’s one of the reasons why bodybuilders who use a lot of GH also use insulin: to lower their blood sugar levels). Now, GH itself is short lasting. And when a bodybuilder injects it, it only increase blood sugar level for a short period of time. But the way MK677 works is that it essentially constantly elevate GH (to a small extent) all the time. Which sounds good, but in reality is really bad. It will lead to chronically elevated blood sugar level (which is BAD for arteries damage and heart issues). It will also makes you less responsive to GH really quickly, by making more of the lignant protein that binds to GH an inhibits it. MK677 will also make you retain a boatload of water (which you will notice more if you are lean. If your body fat is fairly high you might just mistake that for muscle gain, it isn’t). On top of looking bad, it will raise blood pressure significantly. MK677 will also dramatically increase hunger. One of the worst PED that someone could take.

LGD-4033 - 10mg
RAD140 - 20mg : These two are SARMs. They are drugs, not supplements. The reason why they can still be sold over-the-counter (as well as MK677) is a loophole in the current regulation that makes them “not illegal”. But they are still drugs. Very similar to steroids. With similar side effects (increase in blood pressure, heart, kidney and liver stress, shutting down your natural test production) while providing you with less gains.

Methyldiazirinol - 30mg: That’s an actual steroid. It’s a DHT derivative that is liver toxic and comes with all the other side effects of more well-known steroids. The reason why it can be sold is that it was never actually marketed or registered by pharma companies. It’s one of the hundreds of steroids that were create when they were looking to design steroids with best “results to risk” ratio. The fact that it wasn’t retained and registered tells you that it’s either less effective that the steroids that make it to the market or more dangerous (or both).

M1T - 5mg: That’s an actual steroid too. And a very powerful one at that. Technically, it is illegal. But I guess that some companies are willing to take the risk to include it in a formulation. It is one of the most liver-toxic products ever. Worse than most other oral steroids. I will also increase blood pressure.

5 alpha hydroxy laxogenin - 25mg: This is pure crap. Like Turkesterone, it doesn’t do anything (even if some popular influencers, who make money from selling the stuff, claim it to be great). From what I read, most of the lean mass gain they can provide comes from organ growth, not muscle growth.

So, essentially, you took 70mg of oral steroids/day and 60mg steroid-like substances per day (a total of 130mg of steroids or similar substances. Which is a more than moderate steroid cycle when added to TRT) and the shitty, “I would not give it to my worse enemy” MK677.

Now, why did you feel good? Steroids do have an impact on neurotransmitters and their system.

A lot of steroids increase beta-adrenergic sensitivity (making you more responsive to your own adrenaline). If pushed to the extreme (e.g. large doses of tren, halotestin, mibolerone, etc.) you can become aggressive. But if the doses are moderate it can simply make you more “awake”, confident, active, motivated or driven.

M1T, as a strong androgen, certainly does that. Methyldiazirinol, as a DHT, likely does that too, or has more of central nervous system impact.

Some steroids can also increase dopamine stimulation. So that might be happening here.

That’s why steroids can become addictive: not only because of the gains, but when you come off, it is possible to have real physiological withdrawal symptoms.

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Great info @Christian_Thibaudeau - I really appreciate the insight.

I’ll begin by issuing a disclaimer - I wasn’t condoning this product. And I only took it due to a prolonged illness that left me weak with significant muscle wasting. That said I did go into this knowing that it probably contained “grey market” products but I went ahead and took it due to the possible benefits of the MK and the anamorelin, as I was attempting to fast track my healing. Plus, I am a former athlete and have always taken care of my body, so to be this depleted, I wanted to jump start my training and put back on healthy weight asap (right or wrong).

So the nature of me asking about these ingredients isn’t because I want to take this product again, it’s that I want to know why I felt good while taking it. For the last 4 years I have done research on these compounds to unpack this mystery and most of my focus has been on the GH boosting compounds, specifically anamorelin, simply due to the fact that I slept so deeply while taking this. I could go to bed at midnight and wake up refreshed and brimming with energy and an overall positive mindset at 6am, where normally I can go to bed at 8 and still struggle to feel refreshed in the am. I understand that GH makes you rest more deeply, so I assumed the MK or anamorelin should get the credit.
However, more recently I have focused my research into the oral steroids in the pill and how those might have created a sense of well being. I understand M1T is extremely strong, so even at a low dose it can create great strength gains, and I was hoping someone could give me insight to the “feel” of that one… and maybe down the road I could better dial in my Rx TRT to try and mimic that pathway.

Side note - if you have feedback on sleep/rest and how to wake up feeling recharged I am all ears.

Also - when I did eventually switch over to TRT under a doctors care in 2018, I did mention this compound and the doc gave me an Rx of MK, and I took the ibutamorelin for a few months however I never felt like it did anything.

Appreciate the insight.

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I’m surprised you think this as theres a lot of trials that have shown a good safety profile, its currently (I believe) being researched for Gh deficiency in children and adults, body composition and sleep issues. I have seen some papers saying about insulin sensitivity but this seems rare (and the only paper I properly read there were a host of co issues so the authors stated it may play a part as he was predisposed alongside the other PEDS he was taking).
Ialso have some in the cupboard waiting to start another few months worth.
Ive coped in @BigTexxx who I think is someone I’ve seen on another forum and has a lot of info on these type of things, hopefully he can point out where I’m wrong.

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There is a difference between a drug having a good safety profile for children with GH deficiencies and normal adults.

And “safe” seems to mean something different for pharmaceutical companies where the incidence of side effects is acceptable provided that:

  1. The health issue that the drug fixes is more “dangerous” than the side effects
  2. That the side effects are not life-threatening or lead to a serious condition
  3. The side effects don’t happen in a majority of cases (I suspect that this is, in part, to avoid a costly civil lawsuit)
  4. The drug can make a lot more money than any potential losses from lawsuits

Semaglutide/Ozempic is a good example or this. It does have side effects. Some of which are very common, but not dangerous (severe nausea) others, like pancreatitis, is more serious but less common. But this is seen as acceptable medically (and financially). And while it has good evidence of being effective, it hasn’t been studied specifically for long-term weight management (evidences points toward someone having to stay on it otherwise they regain the weight). We don’t know if there are more serious side-effects from long-term use.

But it sells so it’s okay.

The pharmaceutical industry is full of examples of medications that were deemed safe, only to be pulled from the market a few years later (thalidomide anyone?).

Let’s look at MK677. Can it work to increase GH? YES! Can it boost IGF-1? Absolutely! I’m not disputing that it does what it’s supposed to do. However, it comes with much more side effects than “the real thing” (hGH).

Mk677 does lead to severe hunger. Is that a side effect that would prevent pharma cies from deeming it safe? Of course not! But if you are someone who is trying to get lean, someone with a weight issue or bad relationship with food, it can be a bad side effect. Then again, for some it might be a blessing (those who can’t seem to eat enough to grow).

The insulin resistance issue will obviously not happen to everyone. But it does increase the risk of someone developing it. A bodybuilder who consumes a boat load of food the “bulk” at the same time will be a greater risk than if he doesn’t take MK677.

My evaluation might be biased because of my own experience with it. It instantly bloated me up like CRAZY, even with minimal doses. It made me super lethargic, again, even with a small 5mg/day dose and it also made me ravenous.

Personally, will never use that stuff and will never recommend it. Will everyone have the same experience? Probably not, even though I see it a lot.

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@MrGrant @Christian_Thibaudeau @systemlord

Interested in hearing any feedback on anamorelin as a GH boosting option.

The company that made this product also made a product that was just anamorelin without the sarms or grey market anabolics, so after I took this drug I decided to try that one with just the anamorelin to see if that helped me with sleep / recovery / healing …

I didn’t get the same effect.

I had a friend use it and he had the “ghrelin effect” (excuse the misspellings if that’s the case) and he did add some size and had a much bigger appetite, as expected I was told from a pure anamorelin standpoint. Me - well I didn’t get much of any benefit like I did when I took the compounds listed in the original post. Which … made me wonder if some of the “well being” effect was from the anabolics (instead of the GH boost) and I had been researching the wrongs compounds this entire time.

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What’s up @MrGrant…yea, I guess I get around. Not so much here though.

Ahhh…the MK 677 argument. No winning this one, you either like or you hate it. I have used it quite a few times since 2012 and honestly like it, especially when I combine it with 1.5iu of GH. Insulin resistance…my fasting serum blood sugar is usually about 77-85.

Does it make you hungry? Most get hungry, I don’t, I also don’t get hungry using GHRP 6. Does it cause water retention? I have seen blood work done where 25mg MK677 causes increases in GH and IGF-1 levels were equivalent to 4iu GH. I get water retention badly with 4iuu. I also get water retention with 25mg MK667. 12.5mg is a a light increase. But then this happens with increases in GH levels. Does it cause lethargy? Of course, that is a side effect of high GH levels. 4iu of GH makes me like a zombie and causes me to have fingers like sausages. Does it have a good safety record? There are quite a few studies both longer and shorter that all say the same, it seems to be safe. Like this one.

Is it healthy for children? There are studies that show it may be safe:

I believe it has gone into phase II clinical trials for LUM-201

And yet another one: Effects of an Oral GH Secretagogue (MK-677) on Body Composition and Functional Ability of Older Adults (MOT089)
https://clinicaltrials.gov/study/NCT00474279

Would I recommend it to someone? I am certainly not an internet influencer but I would encourage anyone interested in MK 677 to read all the available research, and make that decision for yourself. My recommendation one way or another mean nothing.

One more thing before I go…the rest of the SARMS mentioned, tried everyone of them at one time or another…IMHO, considering the cost to benefits…they are all a waste of money. Anabolic steroids are much better and certainly less expensive.

One thing we all need to remember, is the LAW OF INDIVIDUALITY. We will all get slightly different results from any medication, respond differently to different doses. There is a pharmacogenomic test used in medicine to determine how we individually respond to medication.

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Thanks for the reply, especially about the mention of personal experience. I had similar my first time, incredible waves of tiredness and hunger. Soo much so I left work early to go home to sleep and eat. I started taking a smaller dose at night and built up and haven’t had issues since.

Do I think MK is safe? Not a clue, I have seen human trials for healthy adults for various things (raise IGF-1, weight gain and sleep) which were positive about it but I don’t know where they have/will lead and the one time on a forum I did talk about it I said it wouldn’t help the person (who had sever body issues). And as @BigTexxx says it tends to lead to divided opinions and I’m really not qualified to tell others what to do. Basically this below!

Interesting thing about Thalidomide, after the horrendous problems it caused drug testing and prescribing changed and a few years later it was retested for a range of other diseases and is now commonly used for the treatment of cancers (multiple myeloma in particular) HIV and other wasting/autoimmune disease) transplants and Leprosy.

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Can MK677 cause an increase in prolactin levels as well?

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Absolutely. Maybe more than other secretagogues because of the longer effect

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