Just a thought. How about jumping into the chin. Kinda like a push press version of the chin up.
I’ve been trying that but I don’t know if it helps? I’ve been thinking about adding a Teeter totter like board to the chin stand with heavy weight on one end and my feet on the other to sort of give me a little added lift. I’m not liking the idea of just straining to get 3/4 of the way up over and over again . That doesn’t seem to be helping. My son stood there and grabbed my belt to help lift me up but that was awkward and my form suffered. There’s a form of steps on my chin dip stand so I’m trying to start higher up on the rep to see if that helps ? There seems to be a spot ( 3/4 up) that I keep getting stuck at that I can’t get past. This is about as dumb as someone saying I can’t do curl, I keep getting stuck half way up , ha ha !
Scott
The top third of the movement is the hardest, for biomechanical reasons. If you were to build a cammed machine to train that movement, you’d have the resistance fall off significantly in that range, so that you could continue to get a full range of movement even as the lats fatigue.
I have a doorway mounted pull up bar that I use for pullups. When I stand on the floor and grab the handles, I’m already about 25% (?) of the way up. What I’ve been experimenting with lately is to do a few sets of 2 or 3 pullups every day. (I can typically get 6 or 7 reps before failure when fresh, so this is well short of failure). I’m experimenting to see if near daily exposure to the movement, but not going to failure, lets me build up a little more endurance. Depending on how it goes, I may start to add a little weight regularly to increase the intensity.
When I do these mini sets, I just stand on the floor, no dead hang at the start. I pull myself all the way up slowly, chin well above the bar, and pause for a moment at the top. Then let myself back down to the floor. I really concentrate on feeling the contraction in my back, especially at the top. In effect, I am trying to train in the weakest portion of the movement. I really do feel the contraction in my back.
Also, I’ve decided to just focus on using a neutral grip (parallel handles, palms facing) as this seems to reduce the strain on my wrists and elbows.
Even if I can’t add many reps to my AMRAP efforts, it does feel good…
Dr. Darden , I’m guessing you were around when Jones and Mentzer did those videos of Boyer Coe training at the Nautilus facility? I was watching Boyer doing chins and while searching through the internet sites I was finding other shots of Boyer training and in some he appears as he does in the Jones videos and in some he’s literally gigantic ! I’m wondering if his condition in the Jones videos are when he’s steroid free and the others when he’s on something. I’m just trying to see how these guys look off the juice. He was still amazingly strong in chins in the Jones videos.
Scott
Scott,
Boyer was not taking steroids when Jones trained him.
There is an interview Boyer did several years ago which can still be found on the internet. In that interview he says that he was introduced to steroids quite early. Started using Dinabol when he was 17. He used relatively light doses, and typically for a few months before contests. So it wouldn’t be surprising if his size fluctuated up and down depending on what he was training for, and whether or not he was on or off the Dinabol. He openingly admits that his last win (1994 Masters contest) was due to a combination of modified HIT training, steroids, and growth hormone.
So this is getting funny or more pathetic, I don’t know which ? I’ve been looking up pull-ups and chinning on youtube and it appears I’m not trying pull-ups, I’m trying chins( palms facing me). Those are supposedly easier than pull-ups where your hands face away from you and the pull-ups work the lats better than chins. I have an even harder time going anywhere with my hands facing away, ha ha. I saw some extraneous exercises to do that might help with muscles that assist with pull-ups like hammer curls , lower trap and scapula exercises etc so I’m going to start doing those to see it it helps. Even funnier is they say do hammer curls as the braci helps out a lot! That’s one of my favorite curls so something else must be busted, ha ha! It’s really disheartening to see these guys doing multiple pull-ups with weight like walking up steps but I’m going to keep trying !
Dr. Darden, as you’ve probably seen I’ve been trying to figure out how to get back to doing a few chins or pull-ups which at the moment I can’t do. There’s a whole bunch of YouTube posts that Recommend doing pull-ups every day to get better at them. This seems to go against you’re thinking of stimulate the muscle, rest and eat well as in another of your posts today. Ive been trying everyday and know that’s what the marines might do and lots of people recommend that but in your opinion is that a smart thing to do or am I setting myself up for trouble by doing this everyday with no recovery period which is typical of muscle building?
Scott,
My thinking is, at your age, to do them twice a week.
I’ve noticed that certain bodybuilders who are good at chins have very pronounced braci muscles like those pictured. Boyer Coe, Freddy Ortiz to speak of a few. It is interesting how some bodybuilders arms vary significantly in their design especially when you compare Boyer’s with Larry Scott’s for instance.
Anyone have any thoughts if the guys with very pronounced brachi muscles like Boyer have an advantage in chinning over the guys with arms like Larry Scott with more pronounced bicep muscle?
Scott
How do you know which bodybuilders excel at pull-ups? They are not typically engaging each other in contests to compare their pull-up ability.
Your observation might still be a good one, based on this bit I found on wikipedia:
“The brachialis (brachialis anticus) is a muscle in the upper arm that flexes the elbow joint. It lies deeper than the biceps brachii, and makes up part of the floor of the region known as the cubital fossa. The brachialis is the prime mover of elbow flexion. While the biceps brachii appears as a large anterior bulge on the arm and commands considerable interest among body builders, the brachialis underlying it actually generates about 50% more power and is thus the prime mover of elbow flexion.”
I do know that Boyer is very good at pull-ups and if I recall correctly so was Freddy. It’s just a suspicion I have. I see lots of trainers emphasizing work on the brachi and traps to help with chins and Im wondering if those with well pronounced brachi have an advantage with chins? I’ve started exercises that work those specific body parts to see if that helps.
Scott
The wikipedia article makes a distinction between the biceps brachii and the brachialis anticus. The diagram you posted has arrows pointing to what I think is the brachialis anticus.
So when you talk about training the brachi, which muscle are you referring too?
Thanks for coming back on this but wiki is trash, I wouldn’t use that as a source for anything. Honestly I don’t know what the muscles are called, that’s why I just put the arrows on the picture pointing to the muscles in question. Maybe I’m wrong but it seems people who have a physique where those muscles are pronounced do well with chins?
Scott
Maybe that muscle is pronounced because they prioritise chins.
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OK, I will drop it. But your original post seemed to suggest that differences in how the arm muscles look might relate to pullup (and chinup ability). So it seems obvious to look at which muscles are involved. Since I don’t have any anatomy textbooks, wikipedia was one of the places I looked.
Personally, I think it is kind of fascinating that the biceps brachii, which is the more visible muscle and the one bodybuilders try to emphasize has less to do with driving elbow flexing than the underlying brachialis muscle which is less visible. I thought that might be what you were trying to argue.
If your point is just that guys with big arm muscles might have an easier time doing pullups, well…duh!
BTW, the wikipedia article in question does seem to rely on material taken from a physiology textbook: Saladin, Kenneth S, Stephen J. Sullivan, and Christina A. Gan. Anatomy & Physiology: The Unity of Form and Function. 2015.
In no way would or did I suggest guys with big arms have an easier time doing pull-ups. I have fairly big arms , especially bicep compared to some of my friends of equal size and fitness and a can’t do a chin to save my life while they can do many. I’m not trying to argue anything here, I’m trying to see if those prominent brachii muscles are a key factor in chinning ability or maybe they make no difference? I’m just trying to figure out why I’m so pathetic at them?
I switched to 2 workouts per week of my normal routine and for part of that I have been specializing on pull-up assist exercises, just hanging there till my grip fails about 5 times, about 10 jump up and descend as slowly as possible reps, hanging there and pulling up some with my traps and a hand full of pull-up efforts . I don’t seem to be improving but maybe at my age it will take a lot longer to see improvement than I’m hoping for. I keep seeing these guys using green and red rubber assist bands . Any idea which ones are good ones and where to get them?
Scott
I’m very weak at pull-ups as well. I have very short and flat shaped biceps but I don’t think it’s related at all. More likely it’s due to my weight. I find doing the negative only version (30 - 60 seconds lowering) works well.