Transwoman Takes First Place

[doogie]

@mnben87

They may not have it at birth, but as they develop, they will without choice not feel they are in the right body.

There are people who have felt they should be blind who have found doctors to blind them. There have been people who believe they should an amputee who have found doctors to cut off a limb. I think both of those are as sick as a doctor performing sex reassignment surgery. They are all the result of a mental illness. They need mental help, not a scalpel.

[mnben87]

@tim_cappello

That’s called a mental illness.

You may be right. I don’t think it is very treatable with traditional medicine though.

I don’t understand it personally, but I am not required to. The way I see it is that their decision doesn’t impact me. Why should I care? They still deserve to be treated with respect. I am not saying women’s sports should be forced to accept MTF players. I have nothing against trans leagues starting, and if people want to watch, why should I care. If the Olympics decides they can make money off of it because people are interested, why should I care.

[tim_cappello]

@Californiagrown

Sounds like you don’t grasp what trans is. It’s separate from biological sex.

That’s intellectually dishonest. You’re original statement was:

@Californiagrown

f a biological female was born trans, he is super fucked if he wants to pursue (most) sports. luck of the draw

You’re trying to equate biological sex and “trans” with being born. I’ll try to be as clear as I can. You are either a male or female when born. You are not born trans.

I know biological sex and “trans” are two different things.

[tim_cappello]

@mnben87

I don’t understand it personally, but I am not required to. The way I see it is that their decision doesn’t impact me. Why should I care? They still deserve to be treated with respect. I am not saying women’s sports should be forced to accept MTF players. I have nothing against trans leagues starting, and if people want to watch, why should I care. If the Olympics decides they can make money off of it because people are interested, why should I care.

I’m not denying anyone’s personal humanity either. Unfortunately, their decisions do impact you if you are under a universal healthcare system like I am. Premiums are still rising.

Further, I’m appalled that there are teachers out there that try to convince a child that they’re “trans”.

[Californiagrown]

@tim_cappello

@Californiagrown

Sounds like you don’t grasp what trans is. It’s separate from biological sex.

That’s intellectually dishonest. You’re original statement was:

@Californiagrown

f a biological female was born trans, he is super fucked if he wants to pursue (most) sports. luck of the draw

You’re trying to equate biological sex and “trans” with being born. I’ll try to be as clear as I can. You are either a male or female when born. You are not born trans.

I know biological sex and “trans” are two different things.

Can you be born autistic? Or schizophrenic? Or gay? Or with any personality/psych/emotional trait? i guess not using your logic.

[Californiagrown]

@tim_cappello

I’m not denying anyone’s personal humanity either. Unfortunately, their decisions do impact you if you are under a universal healthcare system like I am. Premiums are still rising.

Damn, how many muscles did you pull stretching for that one? Bahahaha.

[tim_cappello]

@Californiagrown

Can you be born autistic? Or schizophrenic? Or gay? Or with any personality/psych/emotional trait? i guess not using your logic.

Autistic?
Yes.

Schizophrenic?
Symptoms could develop later.

Gay?
No

@Californiagrown

Or with any personality/psych/emotional trait?

Depends on which trait.

You’re trying to lump a lot of different things into one category.

[mnben87]

@tim_cappello

Unfortunately, their decisions do impact you if you are under a universal healthcare system like I am. Premiums are still rising.

Anyone who chooses to do something like eating unhealthy or dangerous like mountain skiing raises the costs as well. We don’t forbid those activities. If everyone tried to be an enhanced BBer, it would make those costs go way up.

I think this is a tricky issue to solve. I think many do regret transitioning, but some for sure don’t.

[tim_cappello]

@mnben87

Anyone who chooses to do something like eating unhealthy or dangerous like mountain skiing raises the costs as well. We don’t forbid those activities. If everyone tried to be an enhanced BBer, it would make those costs go way up.

I think this is a tricky issue to solve. I think many do regret transitioning, but some for sure don’t.

There really isn’t a “one size fits all” answer. I also don’t profess to be an expert either.

[Californiagrown]

@mnben87

I think many do regret transitioning, but some for sure don’t.

I think any non-reversible elective surgery or medical procedure should be illegal if the patient is a minor. At 18, do what you will. But i think its kind of shitty to allow high schoolers or younger to make that kind of decision.

[tim_cappello]

@mnben87

Anyone who chooses to do something like eating unhealthy or dangerous like mountain skiing raises the costs as well. We don’t forbid those activities. If everyone tried to be an enhanced BBer, it would make those costs go way up.

I’m not a big fan of universal health care for those very reasons described above.

[zecarlo]

@Californiagrown

It’s separate from biological sex.

But, having male and female sports is based on biological, not mental or emotional, reality.

[tim_cappello]

Unfortunately, that is what is going on right now.

I agree that if you’re an adult, do what you want. My caveat is that if you pay for it yourself and don’t ask the government to.

[Californiagrown]

yep. similar to weight classes. there has to be a cold, hard, objective way to create categories in sports… or we simply dont create categories. And you just have an Open category.

[tim_cappello]

My thanks though both to @Californiagrown and @mnben87 for actually having a discussion without it devolving to name-calling. There are some other members on this site that don’t practice that kind of professionalism.

[mnben87]

Agree. We have decided in the US that you can’t consent to sex until 18. I don’t think one is capable of being able to consent to transitioning if they are incapable of consent to sex.

I do think the US is currently in a state of inconsistent thinking in regards to age of consent. 18 for sex, military service, being tried as an adult, but 21 to drink.

I would hope anyone deciding to do this type of thing would have thought about it a long time, and are sure. Probably optimistic though.

[Californiagrown]

@tim_cappello

I agree that if you’re an adult, do what you want. My caveat is that if you pay for it yourself and don’t ask the government to.

you ever broken a bone or injured yourself recreating and wen to a doctor or ER?

[tim_cappello]

@mnben87

I do think the US is currently in a state of inconsistent thinking in regards to age of consent. 18 for sex, military service, being tried as an adult, but 21 to drink.

Yes indeed it is.

[tim_cappello]

Yes I have but I’m sorry to say that breaking a bone is a far-cry away from an elective surgery.

[Californiagrown]

@mnben87

I would hope anyone deciding to do this type of thing would have thought about it a long time, and are sure. Probably optimistic though.

to a 16 year old, 2 years of hellish high school is a LOOOOOOONG time. to a 40 year old, they remember about 30 seconds of their first two years of high school. Raging hormonal teenagers are NOT to be trusted haha.