I’ve been cutting the last few months. Went from about 218 to 196. This is the first time I have really paid close attention to tracking my calories and macros every day. I was pretty pleased. I lost about 4 inches off my waist, but I still fill out my shirts well and I maintained my strength. I have been cycling my carbs and my calories are staggered. Weight training days are higher calories with moderate carb (and one high carb day). Non-weight training days are lower calorie and low carb (40-60).
I’m feeling pretty beat up so I’m going to take a week off and start bulking. Should I start at maintenance and creep up from there or start at above maintenance? I’m also planning on continuing to cycle carbs and stagger the calories. I know gaining some fat is unavoidable but I also don’t want to look sloppy.
I have had several people I trust say that you ought to try and hold/reset for a month or so before gaining again to avoid a bounce-back effect. I read similar sentiments in a Dave Tate interview about advice to him from John Meadows. I’ve personally dropped from 250+ to 202 since March, and my personal plan is to get to 195 and hold there for a month or two, and then increase the carbs post-workout, try and get some strength gains, and see where that takes me.
I’d love to hear what others think.
I never waited. I WANTED that rebound effect. It isn’t like muscle isn’t coming with that.
^^^ I’ll defer to the experts, but I’m trying to stay in the 198’s weight class and I need to be within shouting distance of it.
[quote]jjackkrash wrote:
^^^ I’ll defer to the experts, but I’m trying to stay in the 198’s weight class and I need to be within shouting distance of it. [/quote]
Understood.
However, speaking generally no one should be setting sites on a weight class until they know where they stand genetically.
If I’m randomly shooting for “190” even though I have the genes to be way bigger, it will hold me back.
Trying to gain the most size possible doesn’t imply staying within a certain weight range regardless of the results seen…which is all “bulking up” is.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I never waited. I WANTED that rebound effect. It isn’t like muscle isn’t coming with that.[/quote]
How far above maintenance would you go?
[quote]super saiyan wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I never waited. I WANTED that rebound effect. It isn’t like muscle isn’t coming with that.[/quote]
How far above maintenance would you go? [/quote]
I was extreme with my approach no matter what I was doing. If I was gaining, I was going to go ahead and put on weight and only throw the breaks on if I was noticeably just getting fatter and nit more muscular enough to justify it. I never set some arbitrary number to hit before I got there. That is what competitors do when they already have size on them and know what class they plan to compete in in the near future. It doesn’t apply to other people.
[quote]super saiyan wrote:
I’ve been cutting the last few months. Went from about 218 to 196. This is the first time I have really paid close attention to tracking my calories and macros every day. I was pretty pleased. I lost about 4 inches off my waist, but I still fill out my shirts well and I maintained my strength. I have been cycling my carbs and my calories are staggered. Weight training days are higher calories with moderate carb (and one high carb day). Non-weight training days are lower calorie and low carb (40-60).
I’m feeling pretty beat up so I’m going to take a week off and start bulking. Should I start at maintenance and creep up from there or start at above maintenance? I’m also planning on continuing to cycle carbs and stagger the calories. I know gaining some fat is unavoidable but I also don’t want to look sloppy.
[/quote]
Congratulations on that.
How do you look now that you are 196? Are you fairly lean (say about 12 to 15%) now? If so, it’s an alright time to slowly gain size. Maintenance calories are higher than what it takes for you to lose, so why not start there, see what happens in two to four weeks, and see what needs to be done, most likely adding 500 to 1000 calories to maintenance levels. I can’t see the need for carb cycling for a bulking/lifestyle diet, but if that’s your thing or what you need to do to keep bodyfat in checks, do it.
Eat as much as you can without getting sloppy is a rule I go by.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]jjackkrash wrote:
^^^ I’ll defer to the experts, but I’m trying to stay in the 198’s weight class and I need to be within shouting distance of it. [/quote]
Understood.
However, speaking generally no one should be setting sites on a weight class until they know where they stand genetically.
If I’m randomly shooting for “190” even though I have the genes to be way bigger, it will hold me back.
Trying to gain the most size possible doesn’t imply staying within a certain weight range regardless of the results seen…which is all “bulking up” is.[/quote]
What if someone wants to compete SOON, and has a respectable amount of muscle (bodybuilding) or strength (powerlifting) to do so NOW? If they do, they’ll have to see where their body takes them (in bodybuilding it’s not always the class they think they’ll wind up in) or what class they’ll be most efficient (powerlifting). Most don’t want to wait til 35 to 40 to start competing, and most who do best started early.
[quote]super saiyan wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I never waited. I WANTED that rebound effect. It isn’t like muscle isn’t coming with that.[/quote]
How far above maintenance would you go? [/quote]
You can go by a relative number (say 10 to 20% above maintenance, depending on how you react or what your makeup is) or go by the standared 500 to 1,000 calories above maintenance (again, depending).
[quote]jjackkrash wrote:
I have had several people I trust say that you ought to try and hold/reset for a month or so before gaining again to avoid a bounce-back effect. I read similar sentiments in a Dave Tate interview about advice to him from John Meadows. I’ve personally dropped from 250+ to 202 since March, and my personal plan is to get to 195 and hold there for a month or two, and then increase the carbs post-workout, try and get some strength gains, and see where that takes me.
I’d love to hear what others think. [/quote]
Most of the acute rebound gain is some muscle lost when dieting down, fat, water, and glycogen. Naturals don’t experience ridiculous rebounds. Besides, muscle gain for an experienced natural is painfully slow, so don’t expect magical stuff.
You’re taking a sound approach that is advised by most experts on this, gradually adding calories and carbs to the diet and seeing where it takes you.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Trying to gain the most size possible doesn’t imply staying within a certain weight range regardless of the results seen…which is all “bulking up” is.[/quote]
People also aim for the weight class in which they’ll be the most competitive. That’s not holding back; it’s strategy.
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Trying to gain the most size possible doesn’t imply staying within a certain weight range regardless of the results seen…which is all “bulking up” is.[/quote]
People also aim for the weight class in which they’ll be the most competitive. That’s not holding back; it’s strategy. [/quote]
? If anyone is doing that before they actually build an impressive physique, they are idiots.
I mean, seriously, this board isn’t exactly filled with amazing extremely muscular physiques so I really doubt most of the people reading this are a few months away from competition shape after YEARS of building a shocking physique.
Someone “bulking up” is usually NOT weeks or a few months away from a contest so why is that even coming up here?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Trying to gain the most size possible doesn’t imply staying within a certain weight range regardless of the results seen…which is all “bulking up” is.[/quote]
People also aim for the weight class in which they’ll be the most competitive. That’s not holding back; it’s strategy. [/quote]
? If anyone is doing that before they actually build an impressive physique, they are idiots.
I mean, seriously, this board isn’t exactly filled with amazing extremely muscular physiques so I really doubt most of the people reading this are a few months away from competition shape after YEARS of building a shocking physique.
Someone “bulking up” is usually NOT weeks or a few months away from a contest so why is that even coming up here?[/quote]
Here’s why:
jack said, “… I’m trying to stay in the 198’s weight class and I need to be within shouting distance of it.”
I probably should have qualified my goals before I even chimed in, sorry for that. I am over 40, and enjoy masters powerlifting as a hobby. I also compete in 3-event waterskiing, and excess weight, even muscle, is not a plus. I have competed in PL in the 242’s and the 220’s, but that is just to heavy for my other sport, and I think my numbers under Wilkes will be better at 198 once my body adjusts anyway. So I don’t necessarily disagree with X if my goals were different, that’s just not where I am at at this point in my life.
Also, sorry OP, for the hijack. I didn’t mean to derail your thread.
Jack
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
[quote]super saiyan wrote:
I’ve been cutting the last few months. Went from about 218 to 196. This is the first time I have really paid close attention to tracking my calories and macros every day. I was pretty pleased. I lost about 4 inches off my waist, but I still fill out my shirts well and I maintained my strength. I have been cycling my carbs and my calories are staggered. Weight training days are higher calories with moderate carb (and one high carb day). Non-weight training days are lower calorie and low carb (40-60).
I’m feeling pretty beat up so I’m going to take a week off and start bulking. Should I start at maintenance and creep up from there or start at above maintenance? I’m also planning on continuing to cycle carbs and stagger the calories. I know gaining some fat is unavoidable but I also don’t want to look sloppy.
[/quote]
Congratulations on that.
How do you look now that you are 196? Are you fairly lean (say about 12 to 15%) now? If so, it’s an alright time to slowly gain size. Maintenance calories are higher than what it takes for you to lose, so why not start there, see what happens in two to four weeks, and see what needs to be done, most likely adding 500 to 1000 calories to maintenance levels. I can’t see the need for carb cycling for a bulking/lifestyle diet, but if that’s your thing or what you need to do to keep bodyfat in checks, do it.
Eat as much as you can without getting sloppy is a rule I go by. [/quote]
I just think the carb cycling will help keep the fat off. I’ll still average the same number of calories, but they’ll be higher on lifting days and lower on off days. There was an article some time ago where Shelby Starnes discussed cycling while bulking. I think the safe route, as you said, is to go back up to maintenance and then add from there.
[quote]jjackkrash wrote:
I probably should have qualified my goals before I even chimed in, sorry for that. I am over 40, and enjoy masters powerlifting as a hobby. I also compete in 3-event waterskiing, and excess weight, even muscle, is not a plus. I have competed in PL in the 242’s and the 220’s, but that is just to heavy for my other sport, and I think my numbers under Wilkes will be better at 198 once my body adjusts anyway. So I don’t necessarily disagree with X if my goals were different, that’s just not where I am at at this point in my life.
Also, sorry OP, for the hijack. I didn’t mean to derail your thread.
Jack
[/quote]
I knew you are planning on competing in powerlifting because there’s no 198 class in bodybuilding.
[quote]super saiyan wrote:
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
[quote]super saiyan wrote:
I’ve been cutting the last few months. Went from about 218 to 196. This is the first time I have really paid close attention to tracking my calories and macros every day. I was pretty pleased. I lost about 4 inches off my waist, but I still fill out my shirts well and I maintained my strength. I have been cycling my carbs and my calories are staggered. Weight training days are higher calories with moderate carb (and one high carb day). Non-weight training days are lower calorie and low carb (40-60).
I’m feeling pretty beat up so I’m going to take a week off and start bulking. Should I start at maintenance and creep up from there or start at above maintenance? I’m also planning on continuing to cycle carbs and stagger the calories. I know gaining some fat is unavoidable but I also don’t want to look sloppy.
[/quote]
Congratulations on that.
How do you look now that you are 196? Are you fairly lean (say about 12 to 15%) now? If so, it’s an alright time to slowly gain size. Maintenance calories are higher than what it takes for you to lose, so why not start there, see what happens in two to four weeks, and see what needs to be done, most likely adding 500 to 1000 calories to maintenance levels. I can’t see the need for carb cycling for a bulking/lifestyle diet, but if that’s your thing or what you need to do to keep bodyfat in checks, do it.
Eat as much as you can without getting sloppy is a rule I go by. [/quote]
I just think the carb cycling will help keep the fat off. I’ll still average the same number of calories, but they’ll be higher on lifting days and lower on off days. There was an article some time ago where Shelby Starnes discussed cycling while bulking. I think the safe route, as you said, is to go back up to maintenance and then add from there.[/quote]
Yes, SS and CT wrote on carb cycling for bulking. If that’s you’re thing, have at it. I prefer a more sedate approach (checking what’s happening every two to four weeks rather than eating a different dietary pattern everyday).
Keep plugging away!
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
[quote]super saiyan wrote:
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
[quote]super saiyan wrote:
I’ve been cutting the last few months. Went from about 218 to 196. This is the first time I have really paid close attention to tracking my calories and macros every day. I was pretty pleased. I lost about 4 inches off my waist, but I still fill out my shirts well and I maintained my strength. I have been cycling my carbs and my calories are staggered. Weight training days are higher calories with moderate carb (and one high carb day). Non-weight training days are lower calorie and low carb (40-60).
I’m feeling pretty beat up so I’m going to take a week off and start bulking. Should I start at maintenance and creep up from there or start at above maintenance? I’m also planning on continuing to cycle carbs and stagger the calories. I know gaining some fat is unavoidable but I also don’t want to look sloppy.
[/quote]
Congratulations on that.
How do you look now that you are 196? Are you fairly lean (say about 12 to 15%) now? If so, it’s an alright time to slowly gain size. Maintenance calories are higher than what it takes for you to lose, so why not start there, see what happens in two to four weeks, and see what needs to be done, most likely adding 500 to 1000 calories to maintenance levels. I can’t see the need for carb cycling for a bulking/lifestyle diet, but if that’s your thing or what you need to do to keep bodyfat in checks, do it.
Eat as much as you can without getting sloppy is a rule I go by. [/quote]
I just think the carb cycling will help keep the fat off. I’ll still average the same number of calories, but they’ll be higher on lifting days and lower on off days. There was an article some time ago where Shelby Starnes discussed cycling while bulking. I think the safe route, as you said, is to go back up to maintenance and then add from there.[/quote]
Yes, SS and CT wrote on carb cycling for bulking. If that’s you’re thing, have at it. I prefer a more sedate approach (checking what’s happening every two to four weeks rather than eating a different dietary pattern everyday).
Keep plugging away![/quote]
One other thing I should mention is that the staggered calories has provided a mental boost as well. I’m hungrier on my training days and it’s nice to have the extra calories. I don’t miss them on my off days.
First, congrats on your weight loss. Now, a few things to keep in mind. First, your “maintenance” calories are most likely not what you think they are. Everyone’s metabolism takes a hit when dieting, no matter how intelligently you attend to details. Take a guess at your #s, and keep in mind that there will be some initial weight gain from water and glycogen (not muscle, nor fat). Give yourself a couple of weeks to not just go by the scale, but the mirror, and be realistic about your caloric range.
The ‘Rebound Effect’ is grossly overestimated by most trainers. A depressed metabolic rate, and depleted levels in the body will not set you up for a magic increase in your genetically determined protein synthesis rate. It will however allow you to store a ridiculous amount of bodyfat at a rate you previously would not have. I’ve seen many trainers and competitors (and been guilty myself myself) try to bank on that rebound, only to diet down the next year and be a whole pound heavier, if not the same weight as before. Taking advantage of your body’s heightened insulin sensitivity post diet will allow you to work your #s up in incremental steps, allowing your metabolism to pick up speed, while your body puts on muscle as a realistic pace, leading to a much more impressive body composition (205 lbs post diet done correctly is going to look much bigger and leaner than 205 lbs on the way down during the actual diet)
S