[quote]jsbrook wrote:
Dobermann wrote:
Just an update on training to failure.I didnt think to ask but lately this has come up.
Say im doing a set and on the 4th rep for example.I cant lift my arm up to complete the rep.Now say I rest for 3,4,5,6? secs then manage it is this STILL training to failure?
Cheer’s
Yes.[/quote]
Whoops missed that thanks :-))))
[quote]Dobermann wrote:
Ok thank you tyler, But generaly in refrence to the above conversation would this rest pause be seen as “training to failure”?[/quote]
Why are you so interested in training to failure?
-J
[quote]Dobermann wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
Dobermann wrote:
Just an update on training to failure.I didnt think to ask but lately this has come up.
Say im doing a set and on the 4th rep for example.I cant lift my arm up to complete the rep.Now say I rest for 3,4,5,6? secs then manage it is this STILL training to failure?
Cheer’s
Yes.
Whoops missed that thanks :-))))
[/quote]
Sure.
[quote]Dobermann wrote:
teedog wrote:
Dobermann wrote:
Just an update on training to failure.I didnt think to ask but lately this has come up.
Say im doing a set and on the 4th rep for example.I cant lift my arm up to complete the rep.Now say I rest for 3,4,5,6? secs then manage it is this STILL training to failure?
Cheer’s
I concur, it sometimes referred to as “rest/pause” though I believe there is more “rest/pause” involved, like 10-15 seconds
If you want to learn more about this, check this thread:
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=508353
Tyler
Ok thank you tyler, But generaly in refrence to the above conversation would this rest pause be seen as “training to failure”?[/quote]
Yes, it is still considered training to failure.
It should be noted that “training to failure” is but one component of what is known as High Intensity Training, as per the link I posted earlier.
Check out that article/interview and let me know what you think.
Tyler
[quote]JuliusA wrote:
Dobermann wrote:
Ok thank you tyler, But generaly in refrence to the above conversation would this rest pause be seen as “training to failure”?
Why are you so interested in training to failure?
-J[/quote]
People like to make shit complicated. Lift the weight until you only have enough strength to re-rack the weight or set it down safely. There, you have solved the problem and did not train to failure.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
JuliusA wrote:
Dobermann wrote:
Ok thank you tyler, But generaly in refrence to the above conversation would this rest pause be seen as “training to failure”?
Why are you so interested in training to failure?
-J
People like to make shit complicated. Lift the weight until you only have enough strength to re-rack the weight or set it down safely. There, you have solved the problem and did not train to failure.[/quote]
Not at all Professor X, Im new to this so want to make sure I dont train incorrectly and spend 6 months doing the wrong thing before I find out what the “right” thing is.
[quote]Dobermann wrote:
Professor X wrote:
JuliusA wrote:
Dobermann wrote:
Ok thank you tyler, But generaly in refrence to the above conversation would this rest pause be seen as “training to failure”?
Why are you so interested in training to failure?
-J
People like to make shit complicated. Lift the weight until you only have enough strength to re-rack the weight or set it down safely. There, you have solved the problem and did not train to failure.
Not at all Professor X, Im new to this so want to make sure I dont train incorrectly and spend 6 months doing the wrong thing before I find out what the “right” thing is.[/quote]
Guess what? Some people train to failure and actually see progress from it. Shocked? Amazed? Enlightened?
If you learn nothing else, learn that you will never find the one thing that works all of the time for all people on the planet.
I have trained to failure before at times. I didn’t die. My muscles grew. Go figure.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Dobermann wrote:
Professor X wrote:
JuliusA wrote:
Dobermann wrote:
Ok thank you tyler, But generaly in refrence to the above conversation would this rest pause be seen as “training to failure”?
Why are you so interested in training to failure?
-J
People like to make shit complicated. Lift the weight until you only have enough strength to re-rack the weight or set it down safely. There, you have solved the problem and did not train to failure.
Not at all Professor X, Im new to this so want to make sure I dont train incorrectly and spend 6 months doing the wrong thing before I find out what the “right” thing is.
Guess what? Some people train to failure and actually see progress from it. Shocked? Amazed? Enlightened?
If you learn nothing else, learn that you will never find the one thing that works all of the time for all people on the planet.
I have trained to failure before at times. I didn’t die. My muscles grew. Go figure.[/quote]
Great thanks! maybe I should have mentioned im using CW’s workouts hence why im VERY keen “at the moment” to not train to failure.Although i’d be intrested maybe later on to try something like HIIT.
[quote]teedog wrote:
Dobermann wrote:
teedog wrote:
Dobermann wrote:
Just an update on training to failure.I didnt think to ask but lately this has come up.
Say im doing a set and on the 4th rep for example.I cant lift my arm up to complete the rep.Now say I rest for 3,4,5,6? secs then manage it is this STILL training to failure?
Cheer’s
I concur, it sometimes referred to as “rest/pause” though I believe there is more “rest/pause” involved, like 10-15 seconds
If you want to learn more about this, check this thread:
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=508353
Tyler
Ok thank you tyler, But generaly in refrence to the above conversation would this rest pause be seen as “training to failure”?
Yes, it is still considered training to failure.
It should be noted that “training to failure” is but one component of what is known as High Intensity Training, as per the link I posted earlier.
Check out that article/interview and let me know what you think.
Tyler
[/quote]
it’s a very intresting article Tyler enough so to make me put that book on my wants list.Maybe after a a few more of CW’s programmes I’ll do a switch?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Dobermann wrote:
Professor X wrote:
JuliusA wrote:
Dobermann wrote:
Ok thank you tyler, But generaly in refrence to the above conversation would this rest pause be seen as “training to failure”?
Why are you so interested in training to failure?
-J
People like to make shit complicated. Lift the weight until you only have enough strength to re-rack the weight or set it down safely. There, you have solved the problem and did not train to failure.
Not at all Professor X, Im new to this so want to make sure I dont train incorrectly and spend 6 months doing the wrong thing before I find out what the “right” thing is.
Guess what? Some people train to failure and actually see progress from it. Shocked? Amazed? Enlightened?
If you learn nothing else, learn that you will never find the one thing that works all of the time for all people on the planet.
I have trained to failure before at times. I didn’t die. My muscles grew. Go figure.[/quote]
DITTO!
To many people take a concept talked about by a writer on this site and extrapolate the shit out of it. Don’t complicate this any more than you have to. Lift. Eat. Rest. Start over.
[quote]Dobermann wrote:
Great thanks! maybe I should have mentioned im using CW’s workouts hence why im VERY keen “at the moment” to not train to failure.Although i’d be intrested maybe later on to try something like HIIT.
[/quote]
Doberman, you’re right. Irrespective of any the merits or drawbacks to regularly training to failure, if you’re gonna do CW’s program do it the way he planned it, and don’t train to failure.
That should be OK. You’re right up against it though.
Failure is best defined by reducing it to “technical” failure. Breaking form and/or significantly breaking tempo. That is failure of the lowest magnitude and is what is referred to by the coaches.
Best,
DH
[quote]Dobermann wrote:
Ok thanks guys, So basically when the arm is too tired to lift to do the rep.I know CW recomends NOT training to failure and Im using his WM at the moment.Would failure on the last few reps of the very last set be ok though and not counted as “training to failure”?[/quote]
[quote]Disc Hoss wrote:
That should be OK. You’re right up against it though.
Failure is best defined by reducing it to “technical” failure. Breaking form and/or significantly breaking tempo. That is failure of the lowest magnitude and is what is referred to by the coaches.
Best,
DH
Dobermann wrote:
Ok thanks guys, So basically when the arm is too tired to lift to do the rep.I know CW recomends NOT training to failure and Im using his WM at the moment.Would failure on the last few reps of the very last set be ok though and not counted as “training to failure”?
[/quote]
Thank’s everyone.
The Russians found that at 70% of max weight, the power, and peak force output dropped off significantly after 6 reps. Likewise, around 3-4 reps at 80% and 1-2 reps at 90%. For this reason, for strength you may be better to do 2 x 6 then 1 x 12. Remember that your muscles fatigue in different ways to different loads, and it does little good to push out 12 reps when the type IIB fibers stop firing hard at 6 reps.
One definition of “failure” or “when to stop” a set is at the point where your reps become “quasi-isometric” or basically, despite your best effort the bar moves grindingly slow on the positive. I think that this definition is actually pretty close to what CW’s rep set and load schemes put you-right at the point where your bar speed would decrease on the positive if you did another rep or set or two.