A friend of mine told me that training to failure is the most efficent way to build muscle. And drop sets are the best way to train since you train to failure each set. I doubt this but I’m just a beginner and don’t know much. So is this true?
That’s not necessarily true. You can definitely gain just as much muscle training short of failure as you can traiing to failure.
Think of it this way; After you train to failure, you’re obviously not able to lift that same weight for the same amount of reps again. But if you leave a few in the tank you’ll be able to repeat it at least 3 or 4 more times depending on the person thus getting more volume.
Another issue is the strain on the CNS. Training to failure is very taxing on the CNS and thus leads to longer recovery sessions.
Just my .02
Consider failure set and drop sets just other tools in the toolbox for your use to acheive your goals. You will not get there using only those tools, but they may help along the way. I only train to failure on a few exercises/sets per session.
Occasionally on my last set of my last exercise for a body part, I will burn it out with a drop set. Those are ways you can use those tools to help you along the way, but you have to use the other tools as well.
It’s not that you should never train to failure, but simply that should should not always train to failure.
I don’t think it would be possible to train to failure in every exercise and still recover for the next workout.
Also, I think that training to failure works much better with higher reps than lower reps.
If you’re attempting a 1RM and you miss it, you’re probably not going to get a lot of muscle growth. If you fail on the 8th or 9th rep of a set, you’ve probably stimulated enough for muscle growth.
I feel you can lower your volume and go to failure. If you run high volume and failure + drop sets, I feel you are just asking for overtraining. Also, some people will rotate whitch body part is getting drop sets.
[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
I don’t think it would be possible to train to failure in every exercise and still recover for the next workout.
Also, I think that training to failure works much better with higher reps than lower reps.
If you’re attempting a 1RM and you miss it, you’re probably not going to get a lot of muscle growth. If you fail on the 8th or 9th rep of a set, you’ve probably stimulated enough for muscle growth.[/quote]
If you’re only doing one set per exercise each session and taking the appropriate amount of rest days, it shouldn’t be a problem for most people.
Overall, I was expecting a much more heated debate on this topic.
Personally I train to failure on every set except warm-ups and have been doing so since my first workout. My routine is periodized so I’ll have 2-3 weeks at 12 reps, 2-3 weeks at 8 reps, and 2-3 weeks at 5 reps so I never adapt to one particular rep range. I take it even further by only using advanced techniques like drops,giant sets,and forced reps on the high rep weeks and focus on strength on the lower rep workouts. It’s much more detailed than this and I + or - bodypart volume depending on which phase I’m in but thats the foundation and it is excellent. Train to failure.
I train just short of failure and always have. That means I have just enough energy to rack the weight back on my last set for that particular exercise. Training to absolute failure while using your heaviest weight is a great way to kill yourself.
Training to failure = training for failure, in my book. This is not to say that occasionally you won’t miss a lift, but it certainly should not be your aim.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I train just short of failure and always have. That means I have just enough energy to rack the weight back on my last set for that particular exercise. Training to absolute failure while using your heaviest weight is a great way to kill yourself.[/quote]
Agree with this 100% that last set last rep should be every damn thing you have but make it. Sure from time to time you may over step the bounds and fail. thats what a good spotter is for to save your ass not to help you pump out false reps that you cant do on your own.
In short dont train to fail always aim to get that wieght and reps you say you are going to get but failure well it happen sometimes just dont always seek it.
That said I do think that there is some validity in a relative newbie going to one set of failure on the last set. giving every damn thing you have tell you cant go any more. Reason being I dont think newbie are really failing muscle wise so much as mental. Its there brain telling them, oh this is hard I cant do it. By going to failure on that last set they retrain their miknd and start to see how damn powerfulkl that brain can be at forcing the muscle to do that extra rep or to. Learn how to get closer to that point of true muscle failure and not simple mental failure because something is hard.
Once again like above said its a tool. and I would not strat a new trainee off on it right away take a month or so to just get used to training first thats a hell of a shock as is.
Thats my take,
Phill
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I train just short of failure and always have. That means I have just enough energy to rack the weight back on my last set for that particular exercise. Training to absolute failure while using your heaviest weight is a great way to kill yourself.[/quote]
That’s pretty much how I do it as well, although obviously sometimes I’ll miss a lift from time to time. The only time I really deviate from this is for stuff like rotator cuff or ab work.
You can mix in failure training once in a while…but make sure you have a partner.
Let’s make this thread a little more interesting.
Take a set of identical twins. Identical eating habits. One always trains to failure, the other stops 1 rep short of failure. What would you expect the difference in physiques to be regarding muscle mass? In bodyfat level?
[quote]El_Animal wrote:
Let’s make this thread a little more interesting.
Take a set of identical twins. Identical eating habits. One always trains to failure, the other stops 1 rep short of failure. What would you expect the difference in physiques to be regarding muscle mass? In bodyfat level?[/quote]
The one who trained to failure would be the first to end up with a torn biceps, a ripped pec muscle, quad tears and a shoulder injury. In terms of longevity, I think that would be an unwise way to approach training.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
El_Animal wrote:
Let’s make this thread a little more interesting.
Take a set of identical twins. Identical eating habits. One always trains to failure, the other stops 1 rep short of failure. What would you expect the difference in physiques to be regarding muscle mass? In bodyfat level?
The one who trained to failure would be the first to end up with a torn biceps, a ripped pec muscle, quad tears and a shoulder injury. In terms of longevity, I think that would be an unwise way to approach training.[/quote]
I agree it’s unsafe, but let’s say they both stay injury free.
then the guy who keeps on training to failure will soon burn out due to overtraining his CNS.
a study on training to failure and not to failure from PubMed
the conclusion from the study: This investigation demonstrated a potential beneficial stimulus of NRF for improving strength and power, especially during the subsequent peaking training period, whereas performing sets to failure resulted in greater gains in local muscular endurance. (NRF = not training to failure)
[quote]El_Animal wrote:
Professor X wrote:
El_Animal wrote:
Let’s make this thread a little more interesting.
Take a set of identical twins. Identical eating habits. One always trains to failure, the other stops 1 rep short of failure. What would you expect the difference in physiques to be regarding muscle mass? In bodyfat level?
The one who trained to failure would be the first to end up with a torn biceps, a ripped pec muscle, quad tears and a shoulder injury. In terms of longevity, I think that would be an unwise way to approach training.
I agree it’s unsafe, but let’s say they both stay injury free.
[/quote]
I would say that the twin that didn’t train to failure would have superior muscular development. Why? Because since he’s not annihilating his CNS during his workouts, he would be able to train much more frequently (CW’s high frequency methods), thus increasing the amount of training stimulus his body is exposed to.
Good training,
Sentoguy
Not true. Training to failure often would only burn you out quickly and fry your cns
The question is what is your definition of failure? Because by my definition of failure, Professor X is training to failure. Failure is the inability to complete another rep with proper form. By this definition of failure, the majority of us are training to failure.