Training for Longevity

Bigger Stronger Leaner Over 35 Lifter
1

Hey all,

I’m not quite ready to join this club of the over 35 lifter, but at 29 I do find myself looking into the future a little bit. When I look back to my late teens and my 2 hour sessions 5+ times a week, I realize that I don’t have the same recovery capacity today. Whether that’s age, a more demanding and stressful life, or a combination of the two is unknown.

So, with this in mind, I can see that my goals are changing. I want to look good, but more importantly, I want to feel good and function independently for as long as possible… if not until the very end. I feel that most of us men change the way we train as we age by reacting to injuries and fatigue, rather than by taking a proactive approach and thinking about the years ahead.

If possible, I’d like to avoid this.

I’d love to hear what others think a training regimen might look like that will achieve a respectable physique and good performance levels, while addressing the very real nature of aging.

If an actual training program is too specific, what are some elements/lifts you’d be sure to include or even training principles you’d want to adhere by throughout your life?

For those more advanced in years, this would be a great time to share you experience and discuss things you have done that have worked, not worked, or things you wish you had done differently knowing what you know now.

Thanks!

2

[quote]
If an actual training program is too specific, what are some elements/lifts you’d be sure to include or even training principles you’d want to adhere by throughout your life?[/quote]

Excellent question. I will turn 52 this year. Not that he would have listened to an old-timer such as myself, but if I could go back and talk to 29 y.o. Me, there’s only one major change I would urge him to make, and that would be to modify his training so as to minimize joint/tendon stress.

My 3-on/1-off split from back-in-the-day is a great example of how NOT to set up one’s training:
Day 1: Chest and Back. Chest work included heavy flies (= biceps stress); back work included the usual heavy pulling movements (ditto)
Day 2: Shoulders and Legs. Shoulder work included heavy laterals (ditto) as well as heavy upright rowing (ditto).
Day 3: Bis and Tris. Heavy curls (ditto).
Day 4: Off

It’s so obvious in hindsight; I can’t believe I was such an idiot. Not surprisingly, after years of subjecting my biceps to heavy stress 3 days out of every 4, I started having pain in both biceps insertions. Likewise, it should come as no surprise to hear that I ended up tearing an insertion in 2001 necessitating surgical repair, and that the other insertion remains irritated to this day.

The takeaway point I’m driving at is this–take a hard look at your current programming with the intent of ascertaining whether you are inadvertently subjecting any joints/tendons to excess stress, and make the appropriate adjustments NOW. Believe me when I say, 52 y.o. You will thank 29 y.o. You for doing so. Good luck.

3

[quote]EyeDentist wrote:

[quote]
If an actual training program is too specific, what are some elements/lifts you’d be sure to include or even training principles you’d want to adhere by throughout your life?[/quote]

Excellent question. I will turn 52 this year. Not that he would have listened to an old-timer such as myself, but if I could go back and talk to 29 y.o. Me, there’s only one major change I would urge him to make, and that would be to modify his training so as to minimize joint/tendon stress.

My 3-on/1-off split from back-in-the-day is a great example of how NOT to set up one’s training:
Day 1: Chest and Back. Chest work included heavy flies (= biceps stress); back work included the usual heavy pulling movements (ditto)
Day 2: Shoulders and Legs. Shoulder work included heavy laterals (ditto) as well as heavy upright rowing (ditto).
Day 3: Bis and Tris. Heavy curls (ditto).
Day 4: Off

It’s so obvious in hindsight; I can’t believe I was such an idiot. Not surprisingly, after years of subjecting my biceps to heavy stress 3 days out of every 4, I started having pain in both biceps insertions. Likewise, it should come as no surprise to hear that I ended up tearing an insertion in 2001 necessitating surgical repair, and that the other insertion remains irritated to this day.

The takeaway point I’m driving at is this–take a hard look at your current programming with the intent of ascertaining whether you are inadvertently subjecting any joints/tendons to excess stress, and make the appropriate adjustments NOW. Believe me when I say, 52 y.o. You will thank 29 y.o. You for doing so. Good luck.[/quote]

Thanks for great response.

If I look like you at 52, I’m doing alright. In fact, if I looked like you right now I’d be pleased haha!

So is the main culprit of your joint issues training 3 days in a row? Or, do you think it was just the combination of training 3 days in a row AND stressing the same muscles/joints?

Would you suggest lifting something like 3-4 days a week with a day of rest in between each day, and be moderately active on off days doing things like walking, cycling, swimming, yoga?

Any nutritional guidelines you’ve found that help you stay in the game to the extent that you have?

4

[quote]Thanks for great response.

If I look like you at 52, I’m doing alright. In fact, if I looked like you right now I’d be pleased haha!

So is the main culprit of your joint issues training 3 days in a row? Or, do you think it was just the combination of training 3 days in a row AND stressing the same muscles/joints?

Would you suggest lifting something like 3-4 days a week with a day of rest in between each day, and be moderately active on off days doing things like walking, cycling, swimming, yoga?

Any nutritional guidelines you’ve found that help you stay in the game to the extent that you have?
[/quote]

Thanks for the kind words. The problem was not in the 3-on/1-off approach–I personally feel that training a muscle hard once every 4 days is close to ideal in terms of maximizing hypertrophy in unassisted lifters–but rather in the dumb way I divvied up the bodyparts. For example, if I had it to do over again, I would go with:

Day 1: Push (ie, Chest, Front Delts, Tris)
Day 2: Legs
Day 3: Pull (Lats, Medial/Rear Delts, Bis)
Day 4: Off

In this split, all the Biceps-involving work is limited to one day out of four, which is much more tendon-friendly. Additionally, by doing Legs on Day 2, the upper-body joints get a bit of a break (assuming one doesn’t incoporate upper-body-dependent leg exercises, such as RDLs).

As far as nutrition is concerned, I am a fan of manipulating carb intake in terms of both amount (ie, carb cycling) and timing (ie, backloading). I won’t belabor either point as you’re probably already familiar with them, but will be happy to elaborate if you’d like.

5

Hi guys,

I’m really interested in this topic, although I’m 23. I really like the idea, as you said Josh12, of taking a pro-active approach to training longevity.

EyeDentist those are really interesting points that you make and it’s got me a little worried about my routine. What I’m doing is pretty unconventional by T-Nation standards (actually all standards really haha). I’m following Pavel Tsatsouline’s Simple and Sinister routine, which, if you’re not familiar, consists of a low volume of kettlebell swings (5x10) and Turkish get-ups (5x1) done every day. The focus is on technique and strength rather than a high volume or cardio. In addition to doing this every evening I’m also doing a pull-up routine every morning which follows a similar structure - a low volume almost every day. I’m using gymnast rings for these for joint health.

So what I’m doing is low daily volume and a low intensity. Well intensity is a weird one, the idea is to be working at a high percentage of your max so in that regard intensity is high, but I feel kettlebell lifts are just naturally much lower intensity than barbell lifts as you are so limited by stability etc.

Anyway, sorry for rambling, my question is: do you feel that training with such a high frequency is unsustainable in the long-term? I was planning on running Simple and Sinister pretty much indefinitely as it fits so well with my goals and training style.

Thanks for your time.

6

furo-The program you are doing is not that high in intensity so you could do it indefinitely. You could add lifts a small bit at a time to the daily regimen to increase strength and still keep your session time limited. Unless you are using 200 lbs kettle bells already you most likely have a lot of room to increase intensity, power, and strength.
Just saying: I lift 5 days a week-all powerlifting and do t-handle swings every day with a 110 lbs handle. Check out Hardcore Essentials on the over 35 page to see an example of a fairly intense program if you dare. I’m only 43 by the way.
And for the OP-Please look at my thread for the example of a routine that will improve your physique and get you strong. My main goal is to be strong and powerful for competition however the side effects of my lifting produce fairly good results for lower body fat and body composition. Overall health and longevity are also a focus always in my thoughts.

7

Great thanks a lot gorillavanilla, that’s reassuring to hear. I just checked out a couple of pages of your log - very impressive stuff. What sort of adjustments (if any) have you made to your training as you’ve gotten older?

Yeah my plan is to work up to going very heavy with the swings and TGUs and pull-ups, and I might add in other exercises (although I quite like having such a minimalist routine).

I’d really like to build up to using at least a 60kg (132lb) kettlebell on the TGU and swings as well as weighted my pull-ups with 40kg (88lb). Those are my long-term goals, but I just want to take it as far as I can.

8

Furo, now that I know (thanks to YouTube) what a ‘Turkish get-up’ is, the only portion of your plan that gives me pause is the daily weighted pull-ups. I know, there are many people who thrive on daily pull-ups; likewise, I’m sure there are some who have such great (tendon) strength-to-weight ratio that daily pull-ups with almost 90# strapped to their waist causes no ill effects. But I know for a fact I am not such a person. As for whether you are, only time–and your tendons–will tell. In the interim, if you develop a nagging pain in your deep upper forearms (ie, where the biceps tendon attaches)…remember this post.

9

As I’ve gotton older I’ve learned to really listen and pay attention to the micro trauma going on in my body and using methods to have better performance. MOBILITY TRAINING. Find out about it and do it. Even though you are young improving your mobility would be an advisable priority. Also, basic movements are the best. Isolation is neat if you want to bodybuild but if you want dynamic performance upgrades strength is what your after. Squats are king followed closely by deadlifts and standing overhead pressing with bench pressing bringing up the rear yet still important. Variations of the standards are great just make sure form is always at a high standard. Upwards and Onwards!

10

Thanks a lot for the advice guys.

EyeDentist: I think it’ll work well for me to bring down frequency as I increase the load (with pull-ups). Right now I’m doing them every day but body weight only. As I add weight I’ll reduce frequency, eg once I go above 20kg I’ll switch to 3x a week and once I go above 30kg I’ll switch to 2x a week. Does that sound like an ok plan? Thanks again for the advice.

Gorillavanilla: thanks I’ll work more mobility into my routine

11

[quote]furo wrote:
EyeDentist: I think it’ll work well for me to bring down frequency as I increase the load (with pull-ups). Right now I’m doing them every day but body weight only. As I add weight I’ll reduce frequency, eg once I go above 20kg I’ll switch to 3x a week and once I go above 30kg I’ll switch to 2x a week. Does that sound like an ok plan? Thanks again for the advice.[/quote]

That seems like a more prudent long-term plan, definitely. And of course, you can always tweak the intensity and/or frequency as you go. So long as you’re listening to your body (something I did NOT do in my youth), you are unlikely to end up in the same situation I’m in. You’re very welcome.