Here I Go Being Stupid?

Bigger Stronger Leaner Over 35 Lifter
1

I have started back weight training after a 20 plus year hiatus, and am trying to figure out if I am getting started in the right direction. I posted this here because while a newbie, I am past 35 and thought this would be the more appropriate forum. If I am wrong please let me know!

background:
Almost 50 and have not ever really lifted seriously. Played rugby in university and did minimum weight training, because those big muscles will slow you down … er, um, oops. About 9 months ago I started lifting and life got in the way, so in August decided to get serious … that 50th b-day is coming way too fast. I have seen some gains (slightly lower %BF, small weight increase, very limited strength and size gains), but nothing dramatic so I was wondering if I am doing something stupid, or impatient.

goal:
Put on some physical size in a sensible manner, some would call it a clean bulk (started at 30%BF at 181 down to 24%BF at 183 using Doc’s scale and BF). Not really targeting any specific BF, just want to see it go down.

training plan is four part split:
Day 1 - legs
Day 2 - off
Day 3 - chest and triceps
Day 4 - back and biceps
Day 5 - off
Day 6 - shoulders and arms (arms are lagging body part), 20 to 30 min cardio*
Day 7 - off or 20 to 30 min cardio

*cardio is just low impact and low heart rate trying to burn off some fat, so only 2x per week.

Diet is between 2,000 and 2,200 kcal with about 200g protein (trying for a split of 40%P, 30%C and 30% F) eaten in about 5 meals (B,S,L,S,D).
Workout is in the morning so have b-fast about 0630 and lift about 0800, then post work out have snack about 40g whey and 24g carbo.

I have tried to read as much as possible here at T-Nation between articles and forum to be relatively smart about my approach, but if I missed the boat, please let me know.

Thoughts?

2

You are in the right place!

Welcome to the old farts group. I think you are on the right track with your plan. Just take it steady and build a base. Regular incremental gains will preserve your body injury free. Don’t sweat the pace and stay in the game for another 30 years.

3

[quote]soldog wrote:
You are in the right place!

Welcome to the old farts group. I think you are on the right track with your plan. Just take it steady and build a base. Regular incremental gains will preserve your body injury free. Don’t sweat the pace and stay in the game for another 30 years. [/quote]

The real key is to keep it steady and to build a base while getting a feel for your body.

4

Welcome -

I don’t know your current weight, but 2200 kcals might be a bit low for putting on size.

What strategy of sets and reps are you employing in your split?

5

welcome to the old folks home. except for DCA, everyone here has to do 5/3/1, so you need to go buy the book.

6

Welcome,
This site has been great for me. I wish you well in your endeavor.

Wiser men then I have commented. Do you have a workout log?

Mine really helps keep track of weights/reps and makes it, uh, a public commitment.

7

For cardio for seniors I recommend sled dragging. Easy on the joints, involves every muscle in the body icluding the ear lobes, cheap and will leave you sucking wind. Did I mention cheap???

Welcome.

TNT

8

Welcome to the forum!

Sounds like you’re trying to build muscle and lose fat at the same time, but maybe I’m misunderstanding.

I’m certainly far from expert, but with just about 3-4 months of lifting I wonder if you might not get better results by doing a double or triple split and hitting each body part more often than once per week. On the other hand, if you’re happy with the results you’re getting, don’t change anything!

Posting your actual routine and weights would also be helpful.

9

Thanks for the welcome.

Current sets and reps is something one of the trainers at my gym offered. Switching between heavy and light weeks; with heavy being 3x8-12 and light being 2x30-50. Weights (in pounds) are most recent workout which was heavy.

Most of the upper body exercises are dumbbell because of a neck (spine) injury and trying to maximize unilateral movements.

Legs: leg press (575), hack (275), leg curl (115), extensions (135), straight leg dl (185), lunges (walking rather than static with 25 plate each hand) (want to include squats rather than press, but bar aggravates neck injury – any ideas for work around?)
Chest: db incline bench (30), db flat bench (35), cable 1-arm tricep pull down (30), seated 1-arm db tricep extension (20), standing cable flyes (35)
Back: cable seated 1-arm pull down (60), cable seated narrow grip pull down (90), seated 1-arm row (75), standing bb curl (not done in squat rack :slight_smile: (80), seated machine curl (80)
Shoulder: machine oh press (90), db lateral raises (15), db rear delt lateral raises (face down on incline bench) (12.5), iso curl (25), db incline curl (30), cable rope pull down (facing machine) (80), cable rope pull down bent over and back to machine (60)

DCA - weight is 183lbs

mathineer - sort of … trying to build muscle and let the fat drop as secondary benefit of increased metabolism, not actively trying to lose weight.

Thanks again for any and all advice.

10

I tried to find some information about the trainers recommended 2 sets 30-50 reps, but no luck. Has anyone heard of this type of training?

11

30-50 rep sets are usually used for recovery or rehab work. Good for flushing out toxins from the muscle cells or building up the joint integrity. Both uses push a lot of blood into the area to speed healing. I wouldn’t use that rep scheme for getting stronger though.

At 183 you should get at least 3000 calories a day for getting bigger. Probably more. Eat complex carbs for your carb intake (fruits, veggies) and you’ll reduce the deposition of fat). More protein is always better. Contrary to popular health media reports, eggs are good for you. You do have to cycle them in and out though or else you’ll get sick of them.

As far as bar squatting, have you tried low bar squatting, where the bar sits at the bottom of the traps across the shoulder blades? I like to take it even lower and place the bar across the rear deltoids, but have to take special care to keep my back straight using that placement as it forces the elbows back and can round you over in the upper back on heavy weights.

I think older lifters benefit more from short,sweet workouts for getting stronger. There are some exceptions right here in this forum, though. Heavy weight low reps and 1-3 exercises per body part. The 8 to 12 rep range I consider as light weights. 1-5 reps is the heavy range. Your trainer may be making sure that your body is prepared to start lifting heavy, but probably should have started you on heavier weights by now.

Maraudermeat, Fischer, PeteS and Danjo228 might have better suggestions as far as programming and diet go than me, since they actually train people and I just read and experiment a lot.

12

Thanks, DCA.

Trying to think about bar placement for squats … I try to avoid the bone that is at the intersection of neck and shoulders (C-6/7), so that would place the bar at about the shoulder blades. Is that the area you are talking about?

13

Welcome to the geriatric wing of the gym! Many here have forgotten more than the 20somethings will ever learn. Always have a reachable goal.

14

Yesterday was not my best day. Got results on shoulder and it is not a pretty picture, but at least it was not the ugliest shoulder Dr. has ever seen. Bottom line is no upper body training for at least two weeks, then start a rehab program. Maybe that way can avoid surgery, and if need to have surgery will be in better position for recovery. So … thought maybe this is a good time to look at progress and reset goals.

That brings me to my question.

How do you set realistic goals? There are plenty of articles about setting goals (SMART comes to mind), but the realisitic part is where I struggle. Not having trained in years, ok lets say not having trained. Being older. Everyone is different. What is realistic and how do you determine it?

15

Looking at programming in terms of no direct shoulder work for 4-6 months based on current prognosis. So far PT and Dr. are ruling out things like oh press, lateral raises, but may be keeping chest and back that are not targeting the delts. Not really happy with progress over the last 4 months (injury aside), so maybe an upper lower split, with upper being back and chest. Has anyone tried using Christian Thibaudeau’s ideas in basic programming (sorry can not think of title of article)?

edit: title is something like programing for beginners.

16

[quote]dutch09 wrote:
Yesterday was not my best day. Got results on shoulder and it is not a pretty picture, but at least it was not the ugliest shoulder Dr. has ever seen. Bottom line is no upper body training for at least two weeks, then start a rehab program. Maybe that way can avoid surgery, and if need to have surgery will be in better position for recovery. So … thought maybe this is a good time to look at progress and reset goals.

That brings me to my question.

How do you set realistic goals? There are plenty of articles about setting goals (SMART comes to mind), but the realisitic part is where I struggle. Not having trained in years, ok lets say not having trained. Being older. Everyone is different. What is realistic and how do you determine it?

[/quote]

I don’t know about anyone else, but when I set my goals they weren’t realistic. I was squatting 315, I wanted 400. I deadlifted 405 and wanted 500. Could only overhead press 115 and wanted bodyweight and still want to bench 300 while only having a comp best of 255. I just keep knocking down 5 lbs more than last time and don’t think about the end. Eventually I get there. Getting there always comes as a pleasant surprise.

17

Snuck in one last work out …
Legs:
squat 3x8 @ 90, 180, 230 … used smith machine and placed low on shoulders … Thanks DCA!
front squat 3x8 @ 50, 90, 140
lunges 3x40ft (about 15 each side per set) 40 db each hand
leg curl 3x8@110
straight leg dl 3x8 @145, 165, 185

18

[quote]
I just keep knocking down 5 lbs more than last time and don’t think about the end

[quote]

so maybe the goal is not to have a goal, just focus on the next 5lbs more
I tend to train based on feel … look at log start at weight of previous middle set and go up if it feels right so maybe that 5lbs is one I can handle (I am not good at goal setting and I don’t plan on stopping)

Thanks, again.

19

Having had time to read and think about training, I came up with the following.

Goal is still trying to build muscle and let the fat drop as secondary benefit of increased metabolism and activity, not actively trying to lose weight. BMR with light activity (1.375x) puts calories at about 2,600 for 10% over maintenance … 40%P, 30%C, 30%F. Protein will be about 1.4g/lb at 40%P.

Not really happy with progress made so far and have been using a body part split, so try using an upper/lower split 2x week. One day is heavier (3x10) and the other lighter (3x15), but try and focus on total reps, 30 for heavier and 45 for lighter … use set/rep as guide to getting level of effort correct.

Training breakdown
Day 1 - lower (heavy)
Day 2 - off
Day 3 - upper (light)
Day 4 - lower (light)
Day 5 - off
Day 6 - upper (heavy)
Day 7 - off

Lower:
squat
front squat
lying leg curl
straight leg deadlift
lunges

Upper:
lat pull down
flat bench press
DB row
incline press
seated cable row
tricep push down
bicep curl
cable flyes (at end since usually feel like a good finisher)

I realize this is 3 back and chest w/o shoulders, but since direct shoulder work is out I was trying to hit indirectly with things like steep incline press. Also thought that 3 exercises with 3 sets puts me at 9 sets for major muscle group. Stupid ideas?

Should arms move to lower day?

Thoughts on sets/reps?

Do you vary calories, protein, etc. between training and non-training days?

Program seem to match goals?

Thanks for any and all comments.

20

Welcome to the forum!!

  1. For shoulder issues look up shoulder dislocates or go search at intensemuscle.com for how to do them or on youtube.
  2. If your willing to do so I would for the atleast 3 months (remember long term) I would full body routines 2-3 times a week.
    warm up-ride bike-stretches-foam roll (takes 15 minutes tops)
    Sqaut/leg press 3x8
    leg curl 3x15
    bench press 3x8
    seated row 3x12
    rear pec dek 2x20 (practice on squeezing the blades together)
    barbell curl 2x15
    tricep pushdowns 2x20
    calf raise 2x50
    ab work
    cardio 30 min.

slowly increase weight take nothing to failure, work slow and feel the muscle. Before you can get into the upper/lower routines you need a foundation of strength/endurance .

The high rep stuff you talked about 20-30 reps if done heavy and taken to failure build alot of hpertrophy if done smart. Like in 3 months and for 1 set maybe 2.

Diet should be like 50%protein/30% fat/20% carbs. Creatiine,MSM and fish oil

what kind of shoulder problems here? sounds like a labrum?

I am a trainer and deal alot with people getting back into the game and this works wonders (routine) if followed with dedication.

Word to the wise keep your reps on the higher side over 8 on whatever you do, you will thank me by doing this the rest of your life enjoying the and reaping the benefits of a well thought out program.

You can PM me anytime or to ask questions.

Fischer
edit: Calories are at 11 cals per pound 4 days a week and 3 days a week (workout days) should be around 14 per pound.
Cardio 3 days a week 30 min cardio after working out. 2 days a week 45 min higher paced.
Can goto H.I.I.T. after 2 months of building your base up.
Take 2 days off completely from training thurs/sun and enjoy life.