Hi, lets say i finish training, drink post workout drink, 1 hour after eat a good solid meal : around 200g salmon 2 whole wheat bread, etc. Total omega 3 around 6g, di just want to make sure it isnt bad too consume too much omega 3, thanks
EPA has been shown to specifically reduce immune system function in large quantities, particularly in older men. @ 6g, there’s nothing to worry about. Make sure your salmon is wild caught and not farm raised or its likely to be a lot lower in omega-3s than you think.
Source: Rees D, et al. (2006). Dose-related effects of eicosapentaenoic acid on innate immune function in healthy humans: a comparison of young and older men. American Journal of Sports Nutrition, Feb;83(2). 187-8.
[quote]challer1 wrote:
EPA has been shown to specifically reduce immune system function in large quantities, particularly in older men. @ 6g, there’s nothing to worry about. Make sure your salmon is wild caught and not farm raised or its likely to be a lot lower in omega-3s than you think.
Source: Rees D, et al. (2006). Dose-related effects of eicosapentaenoic acid on innate immune function in healthy humans: a comparison of young and older men. American Journal of Sports Nutrition, Feb;83(2). 187-8.[/quote]
Reduce immune function? Almost everyone recommends a high intake of omega-3’s, especially relative to intake of omega-6’s.
[quote]tykraus7 wrote:
challer1 wrote:
EPA has been shown to specifically reduce immune system function in large quantities, particularly in older men. @ 6g, there’s nothing to worry about. Make sure your salmon is wild caught and not farm raised or its likely to be a lot lower in omega-3s than you think.
Source: Rees D, et al. (2006). Dose-related effects of eicosapentaenoic acid on innate immune function in healthy humans: a comparison of young and older men. American Journal of Sports Nutrition, Feb;83(2). 187-8.
Reduce immune function? Almost everyone recommends a high intake of omega-3’s, especially relative to intake of omega-6’s.
[/quote]
You don’t think 6gs is high? How high do you wanna go, lol?
[quote]tykraus7 wrote:
challer1 wrote:
EPA has been shown to specifically reduce immune system function in large quantities, particularly in older men. @ 6g, there’s nothing to worry about. Make sure your salmon is wild caught and not farm raised or its likely to be a lot lower in omega-3s than you think.
Source: Rees D, et al. (2006). Dose-related effects of eicosapentaenoic acid on innate immune function in healthy humans: a comparison of young and older men. American Journal of Sports Nutrition, Feb;83(2). 187-8.
Reduce immune function? Almost everyone recommends a high intake of omega-3’s, especially relative to intake of omega-6’s.
[/quote]
Yes, omega-3s in large amounts (general the dosage is considered more than 4g/day of EPA where the effects have been shown) have been shown to negatively impact immune function. Just go to pubmed.gov and browse around and there are multiple positive studies. Note: 4g a day is a lot. A standard fish oil supplement has 180-320mg EPA per pill; we’re talking 15-20+ 1 gram pills here. DHA has not been shown to effect immune function. Chalk up another point for flame-out; it’s got almost 3x the amount of DHA as EPA, whereas most fish oil supplements have more EPA than DHA.
Think of omega-3s as protein was in the 1980s. More protein = better. We didn’t know how it worked, we didn’t know the exact quantities, the research simply wasn’t there… the best way to be sure of maxing results was to max protein. We now know that there’s a sweet spot and timing can be just as important (or more so) than actual quantity. Give omega-3s a couple more years and I’m sure we’ll have more concrete numbers on optimization of consumption.
Multiple studies have shown that large quantities of EPA interfere with immune function, particularly natural killer cell activity. However, the important thing to keep in mind is that a lot of things reduce immune function. Hard/long workouts reduce immune function… and of course we aren’t going to give up working out. Take home message: keep taking your omega-3 supps, but don’t completely ditch your olive oil for fish oil capsules.
[quote]challer1 wrote:
EPA has been shown to specifically reduce immune system function in large quantities, particularly in older men. @ 6g, there’s nothing to worry about. Make sure your salmon is wild caught and not farm raised or its likely to be a lot lower in omega-3s than you think.
Source: Rees D, et al. (2006). Dose-related effects of eicosapentaenoic acid on innate immune function in healthy humans: a comparison of young and older men. American Journal of Sports Nutrition, Feb;83(2). 187-8.[/quote]
Then why does it say to take two tablespoons on the bottle? Do they want you to have a shitty immune system? (about 15g)
is that 15g of EPA, or 15g of oil? usually the amount of oil is much greater than the EPA alone
[quote]
challer1 wrote:
Yes, omega-3s in large amounts (general the dosage is considered more than 4g/day of EPA where the effects have been shown) have been shown to negatively impact immune function. Just go to pubmed.gov and browse around and there are multiple positive studies. Note: 4g a day is a lot. A standard fish oil supplement has 180-320mg EPA per pill; we’re talking 15-20+ 1 gram pills here. DHA has not been shown to effect immune function. Chalk up another point for flame-out; it’s got almost 3x the amount of DHA as EPA, whereas most fish oil supplements have more EPA than DHA.
Think of omega-3s as protein was in the 1980s. More protein = better. We didn’t know how it worked, we didn’t know the exact quantities, the research simply wasn’t there… the best way to be sure of maxing results was to max protein. We now know that there’s a sweet spot and timing can be just as important (or more so) than actual quantity. Give omega-3s a couple more years and I’m sure we’ll have more concrete numbers on optimization of consumption.
Multiple studies have shown that large quantities of EPA interfere with immune function, particularly natural killer cell activity. However, the important thing to keep in mind is that a lot of things reduce immune function. Hard/long workouts reduce immune function… and of course we aren’t going to give up working out. Take home message: keep taking your omega-3 supps, but don’t completely ditch your olive oil for fish oil capsules.[/quote]
This smells like bullshit post from scientific journals please. Your saying that we didn’t know how proteins work in the 80s blew my mind. I do not believe that for a second. They may not have coded every protein but they had a good idea of “how they worked.”
A couple months back i was dosing my fish oil at around 40 standard (180epa/120dha) pills a day. After staying on this dose for a good week i got whooping cough which lasted for 6 weeks long. I’m not sure whether it was coincidence or the high fish oil intake.
I’m using 30caps a day for more then month , and filling great , 30caps is 9g of EFA ( EPA/DHA )
Poliquin in his article “8 Steps to rebalance your fat intake” :
“Consume 30 to 45 grams of fish oil a day. Our Paleolithic ancestors consumed 300-400 grams of Omega 3s a week. Make sure they are free of heavy metals, and solvents such as hexanes.”
but in his GBC program book he says we should use 6caps a day , and he says some of his clients used 15caps a day
research about high dose of fish oil Fish Oil May Be Helpful To Some And Harmful To Others -- ScienceDaily
this is what Lyle says about dosing :
"6-10 standard caps should be sufficient IMO. maybe big big boys need to go higher
DHA saturates at 1.2 g/day intake when you’re taking EPA so that’s 10 standard caps. tht’s give you 1.8 g EPA and 1.2 g DHA for 3 g/day total"
[quote]Uscumla Beograd wrote:
I’m using 30caps a day for more then month , and filling great , 30caps is 9g of EFA ( EPA/DHA )
Poliquin in his article “8 Steps to rebalance your fat intake” :
“Consume 30 to 45 grams of fish oil a day. Our Paleolithic ancestors consumed 300-400 grams of Omega 3s a week. Make sure they are free of heavy metals, and solvents such as hexanes.”
but in his GBC program book he says we should use 6caps a day , and he says some of his clients used 15caps a day
research about high dose of fish oil Fish Oil May Be Helpful To Some And Harmful To Others -- ScienceDaily
this is what Lyle says about dosing :
"6-10 standard caps should be sufficient IMO. maybe big big boys need to go higher
DHA saturates at 1.2 g/day intake when you’re taking EPA so that’s 10 standard caps. tht’s give you 1.8 g EPA and 1.2 g DHA for 3 g/day total"[/quote]
Thanks, that’s great. I’m assuming that’s ok on top of two tablespoons (15 g Omega3) of flax oil. Or is that too much flaxseed oil?
Has you ever gotten a really weird, deep pink, splotchy rash around your ankles and feet from flax oil? It went away after a couple of days, but weird.
[quote]Uscumla Beograd wrote:
I’m using 30caps a day for more then month , and filling great , 30caps is 9g of EFA ( EPA/DHA )
Poliquin in his article “8 Steps to rebalance your fat intake” :
“Consume 30 to 45 grams of fish oil a day. Our Paleolithic ancestors consumed 300-400 grams of Omega 3s a week. Make sure they are free of heavy metals, and solvents such as hexanes.”
but in his GBC program book he says we should use 6caps a day , and he says some of his clients used 15caps a day
research about high dose of fish oil Fish Oil May Be Helpful To Some And Harmful To Others -- ScienceDaily
this is what Lyle says about dosing :
"6-10 standard caps should be sufficient IMO. maybe big big boys need to go higher
DHA saturates at 1.2 g/day intake when you’re taking EPA so that’s 10 standard caps. tht’s give you 1.8 g EPA and 1.2 g DHA for 3 g/day total"[/quote]
Good citation. Thats pretty crazy to think that fish oil can be bad for you. I guess to much of anything is a bad thing.
[quote]Donnay wrote:
Uscumla Beograd wrote:
I’m using 30caps a day for more then month , and filling great , 30caps is 9g of EFA ( EPA/DHA )
Poliquin in his article “8 Steps to rebalance your fat intake” :
“Consume 30 to 45 grams of fish oil a day. Our Paleolithic ancestors consumed 300-400 grams of Omega 3s a week. Make sure they are free of heavy metals, and solvents such as hexanes.”
but in his GBC program book he says we should use 6caps a day , and he says some of his clients used 15caps a day
research about high dose of fish oil Fish Oil May Be Helpful To Some And Harmful To Others -- ScienceDaily
this is what Lyle says about dosing :
"6-10 standard caps should be sufficient IMO. maybe big big boys need to go higher
DHA saturates at 1.2 g/day intake when you’re taking EPA so that’s 10 standard caps. tht’s give you 1.8 g EPA and 1.2 g DHA for 3 g/day total"
Thanks, that’s great. I’m assuming that’s ok on top of two tablespoons (15 g Omega3) of flax oil. Or is that too much flaxseed oil?
Has you ever gotten a really weird, deep pink, splotchy rash around your ankles and feet from flax oil? It went away after a couple of days, but weird.
[/quote]
It must be fish oil , EPA/DHA
quot from Lyle McDonald : " : the body requires EPA/DHA for optimal function. This includes fat loss, prevention of a lot of diseases, controlling inflammation, etc. While the body has the machinery to convert alpha-linolenic acid (ALA, found in high quantities in flaxseed oil), the amount of that conversion is small for conversion to EPA and negligible for DHA. Hence I don’t feel that ALA/flax oil is an appropriate EFA source. You need to be taking preformed EPA/DHA (in either capsule or liquid form). "
also research :
Plourde M, Cunnane SC. Extremely limited synthesis of long chain polyunsaturates in adults: implications for their dietary essentiality and use as supplements. Appl Physiol Nutr Metab. 2007 Aug;32(4):619-34.
There is considerable interest in the potential impact of several polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFAs) in mitigating the significant morbidity and mortality caused by degenerative diseases of the cardiovascular system and brain. Despite this interest, confusion surrounds the extent of conversion in humans of the parent PUFA, linoleic acid or alpha-linolenic acid (ALA), to their respective long-chain PUFA products. As a result, there is uncertainty about the potential benefits of ALA versus eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) or docosahexaenoic acid (DHA). Some of the confusion arises because although mammals have the necessary enzymes to make the long-chain PUFA from the parent PUFA, in vivo studies in humans show that asymptotically equal to 5% of ALA is converted to EPA and <0.5% of ALA is converted to DHA. Because the capacity of this pathway is very low in healthy, nonvegetarian humans, even large amounts of dietary ALA have a negligible effect on plasma DHA, an effect paralleled in the omega6 PUFA by a negligible effect of dietary linoleic acid on plasma arachidonic acid. Despite this inefficient conversion, there are potential roles in human health for ALA and EPA that could be independent of their metabolism to DHA through the desaturation - chain elongation pathway.
When I look what Lyle is saying and what Poliquin says , maybe best solution is to use fish oil with high DHA content
here is more of good read from Poliquin :
10 Reasons Fish Oils are Essential
By: Charles Poliquin
Fish oils, rich in the Omega-3 fatty acids may help prevent depression, stabilize the moods of maniac-depressives, and alleviate symptoms of schizophrenia.
University of California’s Johnsson Cancer Center, Los Angeles, CA health.com
Fish oils is one of the few substances known to lower concentrations of triglycerides (fatty substances) that pose a cardiovascular risk, in the blood.
J Raloff Science News
Increasing the amount of Omega-3 fatty acids has direct effects on serotonin levels.
Andrew Stoll M.D.1999 Archives of General Psychiatry
Fish oils, eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) help prevent heart disease, depression, and cancer.
Hans R. Larsen, Msc chE “Fish Oils: The Essential Nutrients” International Health News
Research has shown that supplementation with fish oils can markedly reduce interlukin-1beta production and results in a significant reduction in morning stiffness and the number of painful joints in rheumatoid arthritis patients.
Darlington, L Gail and Stone, Trevor W. Antioxidants and fatty acids in the amelioration of rheumatoid arthritis and related disorders. British Journal of Nutrition, Vol. 85, March 2001, pp.251-69. Oilofpisces.com
Several clinical trials have concluded that eating fish regularly or supplementing with fish oils can reduce the risk of sudden cardiac death by as much as 50%.
Bigger,J. Thomas and El-Sherif, Tarek. Polyunsaturated fatty acids and cardiovascular events: a fish tale. Circulation, Vol.103, February 6, 2001, pp623-25 (editorial). Oilofpisces.com
Researchers at Mayo Clinic report that supplementation with fish oils, EPA and DHA is highly effective in slowing down the progression of IgA nephropathy, a common kidney disease.
Donadio, James V.,et al. A controlled trial of fish oil in IgA nephropathy. New England Journal of Medicine, Vol 331 November 3, 1994, pp1194-99 Van Ypersele de Strihou, Charles. Fish oil for IgA nephropathy? New England Journal of Medicine, Vol 331, November 3, 1994, pp 1227-29 (editorial). Oilofpisces.com
Epidemiological studies have shown that populations with a high intake of fish oils have a lower incidence of inflammatory diseases such as asthma.
Dry J. and Vincent D. Effect of a Fish oil diet on asthma: results of a 1-year double bind study. Int Arch Allerguy Appl Immurol, Vol.95, 1991,pp.156-57. Oilofpisces.com
Researchers at The University of Tromso now report that fish oil supplementation lowers blood pressure significantly in people with hypertension and has no effect on glucose control even in people with mid diabetes.
Toft, Ingrid, et al. Effects of n-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids on glucose homeostasis and blood pressure in essential hypertension. Annals of Internal Medicine, Vol 123, No 12, December 15, 1995, pp 911-18. Connor, William E. Diabetes, fish oil, and vascular disease. Annals of Internal Medicine, Vol 123, No 12, December 15, 1995, pp950-52. Oilofpisces.com.
Medical researchers in New Zealand provide convincing evidence that an increased consumption of fish oils helps reduce the risk of developing prostate cancer.
Norrish, A,E, et al. Prostate cancer risk and consumption of fish oils: A dietary biomaker-based case-control study. British Journal of Cancer, Vol. 81, No.7, December 1999, pp.1238-42
Q&A with Charles Poliquin
Q: What’s one supplement that every athlete, weekend warrior, and basically any active person should be taking daily?
A: Fish oil. I was first introduced to fish oil twelve years ago by my friend Mauro DiPasquale. I was over at his house and he had fish oil on the counter. I asked him what he used it for and he said, “Charles, this is the most important supplement ever.”
He told me to go to Medline and punch in any disease known to man and the words “fish oil” beside it. He challenged me to find a study that didn’t show how fish oil could benefit in the treatment of any disease. I gave up after 86 studies!
Why is it so beneficial? It’s in our genes. Humans used to consume 300-400 grams of omega-3s per week. If we consume more than two grams a day now it’s considered a lot.
There was a study published four years ago that showed that if the US government issued three grams of fish oil per day to American citizens, then the amount of cancer and heart disease would go down by 50% within one year. Most readers don’t care about cancer and heart disease, but they may care about this: the biggest limiting factor in naturally training people to getting lean and adding muscle is the consumption (or lack thereof) of omega-3s.
Looking at the body structure of cavemen, they had a lot of muscle mass compared to modern man. They got their omega-3s through the meats they ate. Now, they often ate what the predators left. For example, a lion will eat an antelope from the gut on, so what’s left is the skull and long bones. Primitive man would break the skull open and eat the brains. Brains are 60% fat, and 60% of that is DHA, the omega-3. What they’ve found is that the more brain-sucking was going in those populations, the faster the IQ went up.
Primitive man would also break the bones of the prey and suck the marrow, also rich in omega-3, DHA particularly. DHA is the omega-3 most responsible for brain development while EPA is most associated with reducing inflammation.
My athletes would often recognize each other when sitting around a table because those I’d be training would break out the fish oil during the meal. That’s how I got the nickname “the fish oil guy” among athletes. But that’s also how I get people so lean so fast.
Anyone who wants to put on muscle and lose fat should be on 30-45 grams of fish oil per day. That’s just three tablespoons of fish oil. It would be a pain in the ass with capsules though because that’s around 45 capsules per day, but it’s easy with a straight oil