There was a thread that began last week (that has since gone to “T-Mag” oblivion!) that I would like to pick up on concerning Bench Press angles (incline/decline/flat). I would also like your opinion on a VERY provocative statement made by Dennis James (or “ghost” writer!) in the June “Flex”(which, by the way, was preceded by an advertisement for “Grow!”).
James says: "...I think the flat bench press is one of the most overrated exercises. It's primarily an "ego" exercise: Most guys use it to see how much weight they can press, rather than to build more mass in their chest." Hummmmm..."The positioning encourages you to carry the weight in your deltoids...."...at the bottom of the movement, the bar stikes your chest before you can get a full stretch." He concludes; "I don't do Flat Bench Presses". (His workout is essentially Incline Barbell and Dumbell Presses; Incline or Machine Flyes and Flat Dumbell Flyes). What are you guys thoughts? Is it a long held "myth" that the Flat Barbell Bench Press is "THE" mass builder for the chest?
for the pecs,tri’s, and delts DIPS are the BEST exercise there is, yes you can build a big chest w/benches but that does NOT mean they are the most effective exercise for the pecs. the chest is one of the only bodyparts that has an exercise that works it from the fully streched position to the (almost) fully contracted position. peace
Recently I had been trying to reintroduce flat bench back into
my chest workout …For the first 6 weeks everything was great
…My lifts were strict and smooth…I moved up 5-lbs a week
without fail, and never going to failure (doing a 5 X 5 routine)
Then I started feeling a pain in my medial delt, near the bone
…but made it through that workout, plus one more …Then, the
monster reared its ugly head again, yep, the dreaded bicep
tendonitis! (I would love to do flat barbell bench again, but
shoulders keep telling me NO!)
I don’t do flat bench either. I do incline as one of my regular exercises (1 out of 6), and I don’t really place much value on that. Cable flyes (there are half a dozen variations), dumbbell flyes, and a few other odd exercises form the core of my training. IMO the best chest exercise is a “decline” cable fly (not a pansy ass fly, but one with heavy weight and strict form). You can feel it in your chest muscles 1,000% more than any bench exercise (barbell or even dumbbell).
People just like the bench because of the ego factor. I don’t care about strength at all, so for me it’s not an issue.
My experience was that inclines worked the anterior deltoid more than flat. And I’ve also found that dembell bench hits the pecs more than barbell, possibly because f the ability to utilize a greater range of motion. I do flat dumbell bench as my chest movement in the A workout, and dips in the B workout. I’ve always had decent pec development (proportionately), even when I wasn’t lifting.
Holy moly!Are u all serious? I’ve been paying attention to bench press,since I keep reading that it is a core lift,important bleh bleh…
now u all come up with arguments against it and I feel stupid…So what now? Which is the best chest builder? Why can’t this world come up with one answer.
I recently began spending more time on dips with weight followed by dumbbell press/flyes as a finisher. I notice way more emphasis on my chest than flat bench.
I agree with Hetyey225 on this one. In my opinion weighted dips performed with strict form are THE exercise for mass. Just remember to keep your chin tucked in and tilt your body forward to ensure maximum load on your pecs.
Can’t get a full stretch with a bar? I suppose not if you go with a wider grip. Try it with a shoulder width grip and see if you aren’t at or very near full stretch.
I used to do dumbell benches, dumbell incline benches, flat and incline flyes exclusively. My chest grew no where near as fas as it did when I switched to a 5x7 flat barbell benchpress chest routine. My upper chest didn’t move much but overall mass increased markedly, and my 3 rep bench went up by 65 lb. and is still increasing.
I have switched to a slightly higher rep scheme (8-12), and thus lower weight. This is less stress on my shoulder which was starting to bother me. I've also dropped a couple of sets of flat bench and added incline press and flyes instead and my upper chest is now coming along nicely.
Cable flyes as a mass builder. Not in my lifetime. As a toning exercise yes. For mass you still need a compound movement and that means some type of press…BB, DB. incline, flat, decline, hammer, etc.
Barbell Flat Bench is only an ego excercise if you thrust your hips in the air and bounce the bar off your chest with wieght you know is too heavy. Done strictly and correctly, I believe it is an essential exercise for chest mass. The problem is, not many people do it strictly and correctly. I know whenever I incorporate it into my program, I get a flatter, more squared-off looking chest. When I use Incline, I get a chest that sticks out more, but kind of has that curved shape at the bottom. Now, I’m not bringing up the argument that you can change the shape of your muscles, as the difference is small, but noticeable enough to me. This workout always give me the best overall results for chest (this is supersetted with back work): BB Bench, 3 sets 4-6 reps. DB Incline, 3 sets 8-10 reps, Weighted Dips, 12 reps.
I just recently put benches back into my program and though I do feel it slightly in the delts, my pecs are fried. This may be because my shoulders are one of my best muscles and are very strong, and my chest muscles are not muscles I enthusiasticly work (won’t ever see the muscles and all). It has been a nice change and I definetely feel it in my pecs. Whn I get bored with benches, I’ll do inclines - haven’t done them in quite some time…
I haven’t done flat benches in about 5 years and I think my chest is possibly my most developed muscle group. I primarily do weighted dips and incline DB presses. I think you can achieve serious develpoment without the flat bench, and as in the case for me, save yourself some shoulder pain
you guys show that it is important to change up your routines from time to time. personally i think dumbells are the best because i don’t have a spotter a lot of times. Its kind of obvious how dumbells are better for getting a full stretch since your arms go lower and you have more degrees of freedom to build the stabilizers. Plus dumbells are better for balancing both parts of the body. I like to isolate my body parts so i do a stict vertical dip when working my triceps. If i want to hit my chest at that angle i do decline dumbell presses. Much less stress on my joints. I want to be in the game for life.
For all that say that dips and Incline movements are best for chest development, let’s look at this from a more technical angle. In both exercises (assuming dips are done with elbows in not flared out, FLEXION is the movement in the shoulder joint (if dips are done elbows out, sub acromial bursitis is a concern). Prime movers in FLEXION are Pectoralis Major Clavicular and Anterior Deltoid. Pec Major Sternal (lower, larger pec muscle) is firing but to a much lesser degree. From a BB standpoint, if you’re only doing these exercises as your core chest movements, then you’re missing development of the major chest muscle. If you’re still getting development in your lower chest then hooray, genetics are on your side. Flat bench isn’t carried on the delts if you have strong Pec Sternal (theoretically).
Now I'm not a BB so when someone says that cable cross-over are the best exercise for chest, I laugh a little and then look forward to my next chest day. I'm a strength based lifter that uses growth to get stronger.
Flat Bench, deadlifts, Squats are THE lifts. Does Dennis James do squats? I get the feeling he’s more of a Leg extension, Leg curl, cable cross-over kind of guy.
Mufasa, great post. I tend to read your posts and threads first. Your opinion is valued. I'm not trying to trash anyone, just trying to convey my biases.
Whenever someone sees a big huge guy the 1st thing they ask is always ‘How much do you bench?’. So it might not appeal to anyone on this board, but it seems like it’s the only one ‘regular’ people can relate to, or know of. That’s why I’d want a big bench. I’ve found that my chest has gotten decent development just from closegrip over the last couple months.
Thanks, BigRob! I have to tell you…this Forum can be a scary, often frustrating, but ultimately rewarding place to post. It is apparent that there are a LOT of intelligent people on this site. There are also a lot of opinionated, dogmatic and often rude ones. But that’s what a community is…you take the good with the bad. Hopefully in the end, even if our thread is “hijacked”, ends up in the T-Mag “black hole” with no answer, or is ridiculed and torn apart by some jerk…hopefully in the end we will have all learned something…if no more than to never be as big an ass as that anonymous jerk out there somewhere in cyberspace…