lol. You’re right Steve, toning is the same as shaping and that is how I meant it. BTW, I also consider dips as a compound pressing movement that is excellent for the chest. I didn’t mean to exclude them from my list.
Mufasa, my man, just keep it real and those “Nay sayers” will all find their own way to the Forum’s “Black Hole”.
Everyone has the right to express their opinions here, but those bulligerant jerks can fuck off.
Keep posting. Your knowledge and opinions are worth it.
hetyey225,
Check out my thread addressed to you on the Post “PECS VS DELTS”. Get back to me and let me know what you think.
I had the same problem. Biceps tendonitis. Received therapy, stopped benching. I reintroduced the bench and for a while I was doing the same thing (5x5) increasing five pounds each week. Then BAM! It hit me again…the dreaded biceps tendonitis. Now, whenever I bench, it hurts…and it hurts bad.
Coach Davies programs have me benching and doing other pressing movements again. So I’m in constant pain each week. It sucks. I try to find subsitutes for some of the exercises, but I find that it gets aggravated easy. One thing that did help was when I stopped benching and doing only close-grip benches. Because the close-grip bench allows me to keep my elbows tucked at my sides. I could work up fairly heavy like that (almost as much as my flat bench) and have no pain! So that is the only benching I can do and not aggravate my shoulder. I still do dips and they work fine as long as my shoulder isn’t already hurting.
do what works for you. How about that.
Wow, what a great post Mufasa. I would have to agree the barbell press is overated in terms of developing pec mass. I religiously did benching for my first couple of years lifting. While I got very strong on the lift, my pecs never really grew like I thought they should. When I introduced more incline movements, and put them first in my workout, my chest development picked up. It wasn’t until I started doing weighted dips and dumbell flat bench presses that my chest finally started filling out like I wanted it to. I still do flat bench barbell presses, but for more strength related pusposes then mass building.
Nate Dogg, thank you for the info!.. After reading Dave Tate’s
600-lb bench article, I discovered that I was violating rule # 5
which says to"…keep the elbows tucked and the bar directly over
the wrists and elbows."My elbows WERE flared out, causing an over-
rotation of the shoulder and too much stress on the joint!..What
sucks is now dips with the elbows flared out (which emphasize
the chest) bother me, where they never did before…In fact, before
this I could do them with a 65lb weight for 10 reps with no problem.
The close grips you spoke of are a great idea, but my shoulder isn't ready for them yet...What I now do for my chest routine is heavy inc.dumbbell bench for 4 reps; then 1 min later I do "Hammer strength" flat bench (with my elbows tucked in) for 8 reps, then 30 seconds later I do a set of dips for 12 reps with my body weight only...I rest 3 minutes and repeat the cycle 3 more times!...(what a pump!)...The funny thing is during this whole ordeal, ALL the weights on my shoulder pressing movements (like dumbbell neck press) have shot thru the roof! Go figure; right?...By the way I train chest every 6 days...(Joey Z.) the way, I train chest every 6 days.
all this talk about pain makes me think about muscle imbalances and improper form. There is also a difference between hypertrophy training and powerlifting. We all should realize from reading t-mag that the key is “periodization” and muscle confusion, and that not any one excercise or routine is the best all the time. laters pk
LMAO - Avoids Roids said “toning” which is as good as “I dont know shit about lifting and have no place here”. Know your limitations dumbass and leave this type of post to those who know, if not the whole forum. The only thing I hate more than trolls and killjoys are ignorant misinformers.
As for the thread, it is not as simple as all this. There was an EMG (?) study that said decline is superior to flat and incline in terms of overall muscle fibre activation. The study didnt cover dips but given the similarity in movement it probably follows that dips are superior to the others and possible superior to declines for the reason chins beat pulldowns (Chris and Poliquin have explained this previously). HOWEVER - inclines are key to getting proper overall development and should be AT LEAST as focal as lower pec movements as the upper pecs are notoriously hard to develop for many. The study also concluded that DB were superior to BB in terms of fibres activated. I base my routine around flat, incline and decline bench with DB or BB and dips. I rarely flye and will leave the machines for my pre contest super fine tuning (ie never) - isolation movements may bive a sharper more localised "burn" or something but this most certainly does not equate to mass or strength gain.
Joey, I’m surprised that the incline dumbbells and hammer bench don’t aggravate your shoulder! I’ve tried to do dumbbells a few times in place of a regular bench, and many times, they would cause more aggravation than the bench alone. I think it depends on how you do them. If I keep my elbows tucked, that eliminates the pain. But whenever I do the “elbows flared” presses, it will immediately cause pain.
I’m also surprised that your shoulders have gotten stronger! Mine have no choice now because Coach Davies program is really tearing my shoulders up! They are definitely getting hit two or more times a week. Which is good for me because my shoulders are a weak spot. Now, I just need to stop reaggravating the pain with those benches!
Whopper gave me hell last week about me complaining about my shoulders. I don't think he knew I actually had an injury. Aches and pains don't bother me. But biceps tendonitis is more than that. And it can sometimes last for days. I try not to use pain killers, but I've had to use them recently. And ice is definitely my friend!!!!
Dre, it was meant sarcastically, meaning cable flyes are not, in my opinion, pectoral mass builders, which anyone, except a moronic masturbator like you or your playmate Jason R. Baran, could figure out. As for knowledge, I am sure I have gained more in 17 years of serious lifting with my friend and mentor, Mike Katz, as well as some of the top pros that visit his gym, than you will ever possess. Now go back to spraying phormones on your little noodle in hopes of making it man-size and publishing all your pitiful wet dreams sonny.
Yes, Nate Dogg, ice is your Friend!..I ice the crap out my shoulders
on the way home from the gym…Now, for Inc. dumbbell press, I had to
switch to an almost neutral hand position…(Palms almost facing each
other)for them…what sucks is I had to drop down 1 level of dumbbell
on them!..The neutral hand position reduces shoulder pain by 90%, but
takes some getting used to!!!..(I’ll stick with this grip until I’m
pain free.)
As far as delts/shoulders go, I forgot to mention that as of late
I can’t do any type of side lateral either (due to pain)…Now here’s
what I am currently doing for sho/Delts: First, “Larry Scott” Dumbbell
shoulder press.(These things blow the doors off Arnold presses!)
Let me know if you need an explanation of them…I go for 4 sets of 5
reps with a 3-1-1 cadence, which is pretty much the cadence I use on
all my movements!..Next, I move onto old-fashioned “Nautilus sho press”
which has a neutral hand position that causes almost no joint pain!
I go for 3 sets of 8 reps on them…I finish up with cable upright-rows.
To avoid pain or impingement in the sho.joint, I borrow an attachment
from the seated row mach. This bar allows me to use a semi-wide, yet
neutral hand position…I go for 2 sets of 12 reps on these…It really
boils down to finding the correct hand position that works for “YOU!”
Hope some of this will be of help to you…(Your Brother in iron, Joey Z.)
Low incline bar presses and dumbell presses.