[quote]Kliplemet wrote:
well he was a good business man, earning 400 bucks (30 years ago?!) for an hour of kung fu instruction form celebrities
[/quote]
he had a good business sense no doubt…
as far as celebrities shitting out gold bars to be in lee’s presence…as P.T. Barnum once said “a sucker and his money are soon parted”…
[quote]DPH wrote:
JustDrag wrote:
Kliplemet wrote:
DPH wrote:
JustDrag wrote:
Bruce Lee was strong
bruce lee was weak, overly hyped, and a bad actor (although I did enjoy watching his movies as a kid)…
well he was a good business man, earning 400 bucks (30 years ago?!) for an hour of kung fu instruction for celebreties
This is interesting. I’ve only studied American Kenpo for a couple of years so I’m not a martial arts expert. Why do you and DPH feel that way? Looking forward to hearing from you both.
why?
Not that im an expert on Bruce Lee by any means but I could link like 50 sites that have experts quoted as saying he was one of the strongest people pound for pound in the world. And of course his movie fights were staged…its a movie.
Read up on him and youll read he fought plenty. Fought boxers, gang members, martial artists etc. And in addition to that the “masters” of his day and ours say he was one of the greatest. Maybe im a lil slow or missing something but id tend to agree with the experts on this.
[quote]JustDrag wrote:
Phill wrote:
Phoenix1911 wrote:
It is comparing apples to oranges but the PL’rs and guys who only lift weights do it all the time as well. The most common comparison I’ve noticed is to college and pro football players. I see people boast that they heard so and so can bench only “insert weight” and the poster can bench “insert larger weight”.
I challenge any of those people to see if they can hold thier own on a field against any of these guys or even see if they possess the total body strength and control that a professional athlete posseses.
Exactly!!!
You only prove my point further. Strength, real, or what ever you wish to call it is relative.
Its realative to the sport/goal which the athelete wishes, and trains to compete in.
If you train PLing its a pretty good guess you’ll be a better PL’r than say a gymnyst or football player. Or if you train football you damn well better be better at it than a Strongman competitor etc etc.
Well said. This is similar to the question of “who would you rather take a punch from?” Say you’ve got Kaz and Tyson standing before you. Both men are strong. Both men can hit hard due to mass, acceleration, etc. Tyson is strong and trains to punch. Kaz is strong and trained to lift. Me, I’d take it from Kaz over Tyson.
Bruce Lee was strong but I don’t think he could squat 1,000 lbs. Who would you, or any of us for that matter, rather take a kick from, Lee or Dr. Squat?
[/quote]
Bruce Lee, hell…you should compare it to taking a kick from CRO COP or Dr. Squat lol
[quote]Phoenix1911 wrote:
DPH wrote:
JustDrag wrote:
Kliplemet wrote:
DPH wrote:
JustDrag wrote:
Bruce Lee was strong
bruce lee was weak, overly hyped, and a bad actor (although I did enjoy watching his movies as a kid)…
well he was a good business man, earning 400 bucks (30 years ago?!) for an hour of kung fu instruction for celebreties
This is interesting. I’ve only studied American Kenpo for a couple of years so I’m not a martial arts expert. Why do you and DPH feel that way? Looking forward to hearing from you both.
why?
Not that im an expert on Bruce Lee by any means but I could link like 50 sites that have experts quoted as saying he was one of the strongest people pound for pound in the world. And of course his movie fights were staged…its a movie.
Read up on him and youll read he fought plenty. Fought boxers, gang members, martial artists etc. And in addition to that the “masters” of his day and ours say he was one of the greatest. Maybe im a lil slow or missing something but id tend to agree with the experts on this.[/quote]
You’re not slow.
You’re just not making the distinction between myth and reality, between marketing and facts.
Bruce Lee never fought anyone of any real value. He fought a few amateur junior boxers. In the world of boxing, those are the toddlers.
He had a rude awakening when he went to Thailand. Not that he ever fought a muay thai fighter. Nooo, just seeing them fight made him understand just how far behind he was.
And he wasn’t one of the strongest people ever pound for pound. He used to work out a lot with small weight and lots of reps. He wouldn’t hold a candle, pound for pound or gram for gram, to any strongman worth his salt.
The masters of our day are nothing more than shit-eating marketing-infested federation oriented people trying to make a living off of ancient myths and 80’s martial arts fads.
There are master thaiboxers, master boxers, master grapplers, and master fighters. These are the only masters.
Kung-fu masters can lick my classy nuts.
[quote]Classy_Cojones wrote:
You’re just not making the distinction between myth and reality, between marketing and facts.
Bruce Lee never fought anyone of any real value. He fought a few amateur junior boxers. In the world of boxing, those are the toddlers.
He had a rude awakening when he went to Thailand. Not that he ever fought a muay thai fighter. Nooo, just seeing them fight made him understand just how far behind he was.
And he wasn’t one of the strongest people ever pound for pound. He used to work out a lot with small weight and lots of reps. He wouldn’t hold a candle, pound for pound or gram for gram, to any strongman worth his salt.
The masters of our day are nothing more than shit-eating marketing-infested federation oriented people trying to make a living off of ancient myths and 80’s martial arts fads.
There are master thaiboxers, master boxers, master grapplers, and master fighters. These are the only masters.
Kung-fu masters can lick my classy nuts. [/quote]
Hoo-rah, good post. The depth to which the Bruce Lee myth has penetrated society is pretty weird. I imagine it all comes from his movies, just like Ken Shamrock became a household name in MMA by doing pro-wrestling.
I don’t know any experts in any field of combat sports who would consider Bruce Lee a “master” or the best. They might point out that his philosiphies were important and that his movies led a lot of people to learn more about fighting (Jerome Le Banner, for example, fights south paw because of Bruce Lee movies when he was a kid), but beyond that he just a small Asian guy who had some good moves.
And another thing, while we’re at it.
Back in 'ye olden days, when masters littered the earth a’plenty, and martial arts were about actual fighting - not about getting a bunch of gradeschool kids into a dojo - if you went into a school with all this energy, spirituality, way of the drunken fist bullshit, you’d get your ass kicked on your fucking way out.
Because back then martial arts training was about one thing and one thing only, getting better through drilling techniques and sparring with everyone and their grandmother.
Hard sparring, hold the ‘cry me a river’ spirituality.
[quote]Classy_Cojones wrote:
Phoenix1911 wrote:
DPH wrote:
JustDrag wrote:
Kliplemet wrote:
DPH wrote:
JustDrag wrote:
Bruce Lee was strong
bruce lee was weak, overly hyped, and a bad actor (although I did enjoy watching his movies as a kid)…
well he was a good business man, earning 400 bucks (30 years ago?!) for an hour of kung fu instruction for celebreties
This is interesting. I’ve only studied American Kenpo for a couple of years so I’m not a martial arts expert. Why do you and DPH feel that way? Looking forward to hearing from you both.
why?
Not that im an expert on Bruce Lee by any means but I could link like 50 sites that have experts quoted as saying he was one of the strongest people pound for pound in the world. And of course his movie fights were staged…its a movie.
Read up on him and youll read he fought plenty. Fought boxers, gang members, martial artists etc. And in addition to that the “masters” of his day and ours say he was one of the greatest. Maybe im a lil slow or missing something but id tend to agree with the experts on this.
You’re not slow.
You’re just not making the distinction between myth and reality, between marketing and facts.
Bruce Lee never fought anyone of any real value. He fought a few amateur junior boxers. In the world of boxing, those are the toddlers.
He had a rude awakening when he went to Thailand. Not that he ever fought a muay thai fighter. Nooo, just seeing them fight made him understand just how far behind he was.
And he wasn’t one of the strongest people ever pound for pound. He used to work out a lot with small weight and lots of reps. He wouldn’t hold a candle, pound for pound or gram for gram, to any strongman worth his salt.
The masters of our day are nothing more than shit-eating marketing-infested federation oriented people trying to make a living off of ancient myths and 80’s martial arts fads.
There are master thaiboxers, master boxers, master grapplers, and master fighters. These are the only masters.
Kung-fu masters can lick my classy nuts. [/quote]
I mean no disrespect to you whatsoever but whos to say you are making the correct distinction. You choose to beleive that certain information is myth just as millions of people believe the opposite of what you do. I know you guys like to bring up the light weight tons of reps but in no way, shape, or form makes him weak as someone else stated. He chose to train a certain way…I see guys in the gym all the time who choose to train with light weights but are extremely strong.
And again…while I agree with your definition of “masters” its an oppinion.
[quote]Phoenix1911 wrote:
Not that im an expert on Bruce Lee by any means but I could link like 50 sites that have experts quoted as saying he was one of the strongest people pound for pound in the world. And of course his movie fights were staged…its a movie.
Read up on him and youll read he fought plenty. Fought boxers, gang members, martial artists etc. And in addition to that the “masters” of his day and ours say he was one of the greatest. Maybe im a lil slow or missing something but id tend to agree with the experts on this.[/quote]
complete horseshit…
[quote]Phoenix1911 wrote:
Classy_Cojones wrote:
Phoenix1911 wrote:
DPH wrote:
JustDrag wrote:
Kliplemet wrote:
DPH wrote:
JustDrag wrote:
Bruce Lee was strong
bruce lee was weak, overly hyped, and a bad actor (although I did enjoy watching his movies as a kid)…
well he was a good business man, earning 400 bucks (30 years ago?!) for an hour of kung fu instruction for celebreties
This is interesting. I’ve only studied American Kenpo for a couple of years so I’m not a martial arts expert. Why do you and DPH feel that way? Looking forward to hearing from you both.
why?
Not that im an expert on Bruce Lee by any means but I could link like 50 sites that have experts quoted as saying he was one of the strongest people pound for pound in the world. And of course his movie fights were staged…its a movie.
Read up on him and youll read he fought plenty. Fought boxers, gang members, martial artists etc. And in addition to that the “masters” of his day and ours say he was one of the greatest. Maybe im a lil slow or missing something but id tend to agree with the experts on this.
You’re not slow.
You’re just not making the distinction between myth and reality, between marketing and facts.
Bruce Lee never fought anyone of any real value. He fought a few amateur junior boxers. In the world of boxing, those are the toddlers.
He had a rude awakening when he went to Thailand. Not that he ever fought a muay thai fighter. Nooo, just seeing them fight made him understand just how far behind he was.
And he wasn’t one of the strongest people ever pound for pound. He used to work out a lot with small weight and lots of reps. He wouldn’t hold a candle, pound for pound or gram for gram, to any strongman worth his salt.
The masters of our day are nothing more than shit-eating marketing-infested federation oriented people trying to make a living off of ancient myths and 80’s martial arts fads.
There are master thaiboxers, master boxers, master grapplers, and master fighters. These are the only masters.
Kung-fu masters can lick my classy nuts.
I mean no disrespect to you whatsoever but whos to say you are making the correct distinction. You choose to beleive that certain information is myth just as millions of people believe the opposite of what you do. I know you guys like to bring up the light weight tons of reps but in no way, shape, or form makes him weak as someone else stated. He chose to train a certain way…I see guys in the gym all the time who choose to train with light weights but are extremely strong.
And again…while I agree with your definition of “masters” its an oppinion.[/quote]
Yes, my well informed opinion is much more valuable than your childish idol-seeking behaviour.
People who train with light weights and lots of reps but are extremely strong? Define extremely strong and give me an example.
That information is myth. It can be proven. Bruce Lee fought two amateur junior boxers in a school tournament. Bruce Lee fought a rival teenage gang member back when he was a teenage gang member himself. Bruce Lee fought some Wu-Shu guys when he was studying Wu-Shu.
A bit of history for you. There are yearly tournaments in which China sends their best Wu-Shu (aka Kung Fu) team over to Thailand to determine what the best art is. The first time this happened, years ago, the chinese got totally destroyed. Even funnier is how, with time, they have actually adoped the muay thai (aka kickboxing) way of training. They are trying to beat the thai with their own weapons (it’s called adopting the better technology, or, in this case, adopting a better version of a cultural activity - aka organized fighting). But funniest of all is how every year the new and improved chinese team are getting their asses kicked by B-grade thais (thais who would never even fight on the big stadiums in Thailand).
Now, when Bruce Lee saw the thais and what they can do, he pretty much shit his pants. Sure, he did it with a cocky swagger and self-assured smile, but cocky swagger or not, shitting your pants is shitting your pants.
Don’t want to believe it? Fine. You’re just another guy who belived the fairy-tales of losers past and losers present who ‘choose’ not to step in the ring. Wanna know why? It’s not because their art is too deadly, it’s because they’d get beat so bad it wouldn’t even be funny.
Another funny tidbit is this: people choose to bring up all the time how Bruce Lee fought this and that on the street (by his own admission he fought a few punk kids and that’s it), or how the founder of some modern breed of karate-meets-ninjutsu-on-steroids has an undefeated record of 14 wins and 0 losses on the street. Let me put it this way. The combined record of bad-ass boxers, kick-boxers and wrestlers who have worked the door or simply fought on the street, throughout the ages (think Kung-fu is old? think again, wrestling and boxing and even kickboxing are much, much older) is somewhere in the millions. Many millions. Many many many millions.
And don’t give me this “every coin has two sides, you choose to see a different part of the myth, we’re all right so let’s just get along” crap. There is only one truth. And Bruce Lee ain’t it.
This thread has gone from strength, to bruce lee…I love it! HEHEHE!
Anyways, for the original poster. I think that those movements are used to gauge strength because they’re not as technical and don’t take as long to learn/adapt/strengthen in comparison to some gymnastics skills. I’ll go out on a limb here and say it takes a helluva lot longer starting from scratch to work up to a planche pushup on the ground compared to building up your bench number.
See my point?
[quote]Classy_Cojones wrote: Yes, my well informed opinion is much more valuable than your childish idol-seeking behaviour.
People who train with light weights and lots of reps but are extremely strong? Define extremely strong and give me an example.
That information is myth. It can be proven. Bruce Lee fought two amateur junior boxers in a school tournament. Bruce Lee fought a rival teenage gang member back when he was a teenage gang member himself. Bruce Lee fought some Wu-Shu guys when he was studying Wu-Shu.
A bit of history for you. There are yearly tournaments in which China sends their best Wu-Shu (aka Kung Fu) team over to Thailand to determine what the best art is. The first time this happened, years ago, the chinese got totally destroyed. Even funnier is how, with time, they have actually adoped the muay thai (aka kickboxing) way of training. They are trying to beat the thai with their own weapons (it’s called adopting the better technology, or, in this case, adopting a better version of a cultural activity - aka organized fighting). But funniest of all is how every year the new and improved chinese team are getting their asses kicked by B-grade thais (thais who would never even fight on the big stadiums in Thailand).
Now, when Bruce Lee saw the thais and what they can do, he pretty much shit his pants. Sure, he did it with a cocky swagger and self-assured smile, but cocky swagger or not, shitting your pants is shitting your pants.
Don’t want to believe it? Fine. You’re just another guy who belived the fairy-tales of losers past and losers present who ‘choose’ not to step in the ring. Wanna know why? It’s not because their art is too deadly, it’s because they’d get beat so bad it wouldn’t even be funny.
Another funny tidbit is this: people choose to bring up all the time how Bruce Lee fought this and that on the street (by his own admission he fought a few punk kids and that’s it), or how the founder of some modern breed of karate-meets-ninjutsu-on-steroids has an undefeated record of 14 wins and 0 losses on the street. Let me put it this way. The combined record of bad-ass boxers, kick-boxers and wrestlers who have worked the door or simply fought on the street, throughout the ages (think Kung-fu is old? think again, wrestling and boxing and even kickboxing are much, much older) is somewhere in the millions. Many millions. Many many many millions.
And don’t give me this “every coin has two sides, you choose to see a different part of the myth, we’re all right so let’s just get along” crap. There is only one truth. And Bruce Lee ain’t it.
[/quote]
Ha…idol seeking behaviour? Dont throw around petty titles when you dont have a clue what your talking about. Calling me childish and then calling your oppinion more valuable then mine? Very adult! You graduate from diapers last week?
Like I said…I meant absolutely no disrespect to you or your e-ego/virtual persona.
It would have been fine to just post the meat of what you said and I would have gladly retracted my previous statements because you backed up what you said…not hard for me to do that because as I stated before im no expert on the subject matter.
And yeah I know guys that do 50+ reps with light weights because they so choose…one of them I watched sqaut 800lbs when a powerlifter started talking shit about how his workout was bullshit…Im not saying Bruce could sqaut 800lbs but I dont buy into him being “weak” as the guy that posted before you stated before. If you know any lifters from malboro massachusetts I will gladly drop the name.
And every coin does have two sides. You provided good info so I know what your saying isnt simply oppinion…
But keep the “lets all get along bullshit” and other childish attempts to mock or undermine me to yourself.
[quote]Phoenix1911 wrote:
And yeah I know guys that do 50+ reps with light weights because they so choose…one of them I watched sqaut 800lbs when a powerlifter started talking shit about how his workout was bullshit…
[/quote]
dude, only the strongest guys in the world can squat 800 lbs or more with minimal gear (knee wraps and a belt)on a lark…
I’d be willing to place money that you’re exaggerating the truth a wee bit…
[quote]GhostOfYourMind wrote:
This thread has gone from strength, to bruce lee…I love it! HEHEHE!
Anyways, for the original poster. I think that those movements are used to gauge strength because they’re not as technical and don’t take as long to learn/adapt/strengthen in comparison to some gymnastics skills. I’ll go out on a limb here and say it takes a helluva lot longer starting from scratch to work up to a planche pushup on the ground compared to building up your bench number.
See my point?[/quote]
Also, gymnastics is much easier for short, muscular dudes. Show me a good 5’5" 156 lb. gymnast and I’ll be impressed. Show me a good 6’3" 240 lb. gymnast, and I will be goddamn impressed.
Show me a 6,
[quote]DPH wrote:
Phoenix1911 wrote:
And yeah I know guys that do 50+ reps with light weights because they so choose…one of them I watched sqaut 800lbs when a powerlifter started talking shit about how his workout was bullshit…
dude, only the strongest guys in the world can squat 800 lbs or more with minimal gear (knee wraps and a belt)on a lark…
I’d be willing to place money that you’re exaggerating the truth a wee bit…[/quote]
There was a guy who video taped it…ill see if I can find him and get it uploaded to youtube or somthing…I have no need to exaggerate (spelling?)
lol, Bruce caused a chronic back injury doing a 135 lbs good morning.
[quote]Phoenix1911 wrote:
There was a guy who video taped it…ill see if I can find him and get it uploaded to youtube or somthing…I have no need to exaggerate (spelling?)
[/quote]
there are maybe a couple of hundred guys (out of billions) on the planet that can squat 800 or more with just knee wraps and a belt to good depth, all of them specifically train for strength using 5 reps of less as the main rep range of their training…
there is NO ONE that trains with light weights doing 50+ reps as the main rep range of their training that can squat 800 lbs with minimal equipment just fucking around…NO ONE!
you’re SEVERELY full of shit…
[quote]DPH wrote:
Phoenix1911 wrote:
There was a guy who video taped it…ill see if I can find him and get it uploaded to youtube or somthing…I have no need to exaggerate (spelling?)
there are maybe a couple of hundred guys (out of billions) on the planet that can squat 800 or more with just knee wraps and a belt to good depth, all of them specifically train for strength using 5 reps of less as the main rep range of their training…
there is NO ONE that trains with light weights doing 50+ reps as the main rep range of their training that can squat 800 lbs with minimal equipment just fucking around…NO ONE!
you’re SEVERELY full of shit…[/quote]
Like I said bro Ill try to snag the vid for ya…
Guy tried PL for less then a yr and hated it…said his joints went to shit.
I could have proved my point above by saying 600lbs or picking any # that wouldnt sound unreasonable if I was lying but I saw the shit with my own 2 eyes. I used to be one of the people that laughed at the guys that would bank out 50 reps of some cupcake weight…I know better now. I have no reason to lie because I could give two $hits if some fool on a forum doesnt beleive me…
[quote]tigerak02 wrote:
lol, Bruce caused a chronic back injury doing a 135 lbs good morning.
[/quote]
I like to think it actually killed him. Too bad his “near perfect physical control” didnt help him properly perform one of the simplest excercises in the gym…
Lee wasnt a fighter. He was an actor. And since he did nothing to dispel the mythology slowly creeping into the American understanding of asian martial arts I consider him a complete tool.
[quote]Classy_Cojones wrote:
cap’nsalty wrote:
Classy_Cojones wrote:
It’s too bad that more people don’t cross over.
For example, once you reach a certain level in powerlifting (let’s say 2xBW for bench and 3xBW for squats and deadlifts) you would benefit a lot from strongman and especially gymnastics training.
Of course, it will be hard at first, and most people will think “why feel like a beginner when I can get back to squatting 560 pounds”.
But the truth is your progress will be A LOT faster than that of a real beginner. In a few training sessions your body will have already adapted to the new demands, and you will start to carry over some of your overall strenght into these more complicated tasks.
In the end, someone who has mastered powerlifting, strongman, gymnastics training, as well as some form of sport (perhaps football or wrestling or MMA) will be a much better athlete. And the more you vary your training (after attaining a foothold in one of the strenght disciplines) the faster you will progress.
It’s a question of do you want to be really good at one thing, or just ok in a lot of things. Especially something like strongman; when was the last time you saw anyone below 250 lbs at any of the big events? When was the last time you saw a 300 lb gymnast period?
I don’t really care that much about being an “all around athlete”. I just want to do one thing well.
What I write comes from the worldview of someone who is a fighter.
When it comes to strenght training, for me, powerlifting is the basis and matters most, I do gymnastics from time to time, always looking to improve on my previous performances, and strongman is all about explosive power and using my powerlifting strenght in new angles.
To answer someone’s question, the last time I saw a strongman under 250 pounds was the last time I watched a 205 (90 kgs competition). I’m sure Brad Cardoza, who posts here, could do most gymnastics tricks, that is, if he can’t already do them. When you’re that strong, it’s just a matter of learning the move.[/quote]
This doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me…You say you are a fighter yet you value powerlifting above gymnastic movements?
Powerlifting has WAY less carryover to the strength used in fighting then almost any other strength sport. Olympic lifting(for power), gymnastics(for balance), and low weight high rep circuits(for endurance) would all prove more useful for fighting then the sport of powerlifting.
[quote]JaysonVirissimo wrote:
Classy_Cojones wrote:
cap’nsalty wrote:
Classy_Cojones wrote:
It’s too bad that more people don’t cross over.
For example, once you reach a certain level in powerlifting (let’s say 2xBW for bench and 3xBW for squats and deadlifts) you would benefit a lot from strongman and especially gymnastics training.
Of course, it will be hard at first, and most people will think “why feel like a beginner when I can get back to squatting 560 pounds”.
But the truth is your progress will be A LOT faster than that of a real beginner. In a few training sessions your body will have already adapted to the new demands, and you will start to carry over some of your overall strenght into these more complicated tasks.
In the end, someone who has mastered powerlifting, strongman, gymnastics training, as well as some form of sport (perhaps football or wrestling or MMA) will be a much better athlete. And the more you vary your training (after attaining a foothold in one of the strenght disciplines) the faster you will progress.
It’s a question of do you want to be really good at one thing, or just ok in a lot of things. Especially something like strongman; when was the last time you saw anyone below 250 lbs at any of the big events? When was the last time you saw a 300 lb gymnast period?
I don’t really care that much about being an “all around athlete”. I just want to do one thing well.
What I write comes from the worldview of someone who is a fighter.
When it comes to strenght training, for me, powerlifting is the basis and matters most, I do gymnastics from time to time, always looking to improve on my previous performances, and strongman is all about explosive power and using my powerlifting strenght in new angles.
To answer someone’s question, the last time I saw a strongman under 250 pounds was the last time I watched a 205 (90 kgs competition). I’m sure Brad Cardoza, who posts here, could do most gymnastics tricks, that is, if he can’t already do them. When you’re that strong, it’s just a matter of learning the move.
This doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me…You say you are a fighter yet you value powerlifting above gymnastic movements?
Powerlifting has WAY less carryover to the strength used in fighting then almost any other strength sport. Olympic lifting(for power), gymnastics(for balance), and low weight high rep circuits(for endurance) would all prove more useful for fighting then the sport of powerlifting.[/quote]
Tell that to…oh…Mirko Crocop and Kevin Randleman, will you?
Powerlifting has a hell of a lot of carryover into fighting.