Tight All Over?

Training Injuries
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[quote]lunk wrote:
^^ thanks for taking the time to write your responses! What I mainly want is posture correction (reduced anterior pelvic tilt) - and this is why I’ve been doing all the bird/dogs, glute briges, supine pelvic tilts, body saws, RKC planks…etc…

When I actually do them I’m sure I can feel the ‘target’ areas working, as my glutes burn up and my lower abs get sore. But the thing is - my posture remains absolutely unchanged from doing this. I know that correction exercises are only part of the equation - you have to change your posture generally. Sometimes I just try to squeeze my butt as hard as possible for every waking second, but, mentally I get burned out from doing that - I can’t concentrate on anything else.

How do I actually change my posture away from anterior pelvic tilt?[/quote]

Like I said, those exercises are all good at strengthening the Agonists (glutes, Rectus Abdominus, Hamstring), but they aren’t going to do much to reprogram your neuromuscular system. To do that you need to stretch the antagonists (Iliopsoas/hip flexors, Rectus Femoris/quads, Erector Spinae/lower back) which resist allowing your body from being able to assume a neutral (and definitely “rounded spine” position). Also, like I said there is a good chance that your lats are also tight (you probably have poor overhead flexibility due to constantly being in an arched back position).

You should do PNF stretching for your tight muscles 2x a week (preferably at the end of your lower body workouts). This will actually reprogram your stretch reflex over time to engage later and later into the ROM. I’d also suggest doing regular static stretching the other 5 days of the week (but if you had to miss a day every here and there you’d still be ok) to maintain the flexibility that the PNF stretches have built.

You should still do the other strengthening exercises as well of course, but this method should definitely pay dividends in terms of posture and mobility improvements. If you need specifics on how to do PNF stretching or examples of good stretches let me know.

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^ thanks again.

Actually, for the past two years, I have been holding a 10 minute static hip flexor stretch per side every day as well as my strengthening work - and that’s not done anything for my posture either. I have been stretch errector spinae as well - again, nothing. Yes, I do have proper form for these hip flexor stretches, I squeeze the crap out of my glutes, to try and achieve posterior pelvic tilt whilst the hip flexor is being stretched.

Also, with the PNF stretching, the only PNF stretching I have seen is that for the hamstrings. It’s a lot harder to PNF stretch your hip flexors and/or errector spinae, isn’t it? Are there any non-partner-assisted ways to do it?

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[quote]lunk wrote:
^ thanks again.

Actually, for the past two years, I have been holding a 10 minute static hip flexor stretch per side every day as well as my strengthening work - and that’s not done anything for my posture either. I have been stretch errector spinae as well - again, nothing. Yes, I do have proper form for these hip flexor stretches, I squeeze the crap out of my glutes, to try and achieve posterior pelvic tilt whilst the hip flexor is being stretched.

Also, with the PNF stretching, the only PNF stretching I have seen is that for the hamstrings. It’s a lot harder to PNF stretch your hip flexors and/or errector spinae, isn’t it? Are there any non-partner-assisted ways to do it?[/quote]

Having a partner is great and can improve some PNF stretches. But, there are plenty of effective PNF stretches that you don’t need a partner for.

Also, holding a stretch for that long (10 minutes) is probably not doing you much good. If your muscles don’t significantly relax within 30-60 seconds, then chances are you are stretching too intensely. Understand that you do not “stretch” muscles to increase flexibility; instead you gradually teach your muscles to relax at greater and greater lengths.

If you are starting in a light stretch, waiting till the muscles relax, then increasing the stretch again and repeating the process multiple times for a total of 10 minutes, then that will work. But, that is a very intense method of static stretching and should not be performed daily (much like with PNF it will probably result in muscle soreness 1-2 days later).

Finally, you might want to try some foam rolling for your hip flexors/quads in addition to the stretching.

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IMO Kit Laughlin’s material is the best stretching material out there. He has a bunch of videos available on youtube, but his books and DVD’s have some great material as well. BTW, I am not in any way affiliated with Kit; I’ve just done a lot of research and testing on both myself and my clients and have come to the above conclusion.

Here is a floor solo PNF hip flexor stretch:

Here is a standing solo PNF hip flexor stretch:

Most powerful of all, here is a band assisted solo PNF hip flexor stretch:

If you have a partner though, this one is the best of them all:

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Here is a basic foam rolling method. Personally I like to flex my knee while trying to keep my hip as extended as possible once I find a sensitive spot in the muscle. This act of flexing the knee will help to reciprocally inhibit the quads and help to release the muscles even a little better than just holding the position in my experience. I generally do 12-15 repetitions on each spot. You can just hold the position until the muscles relax for 20-30 seconds until the muscle releases though (as the woman in the video demonstrates). There are actually several effective methods that you can find on youtube; I’d try a few out and see what you like best.

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This thread needs more ballet. :slight_smile:

Just another perspective. FWIW, this comes from my experience with my daughter who has muscle tone issues. There is a range of normal muscle tone, or tension on the muscles. Some people are a bit on the low side, and other people are a bit on the high side. It’s more a function of the Central Nervous System than your actual muscle fibers. To put it really simply, much of our muscle tension is controlled by the brain. You may happen to be an individual who has tone on the high end of the range. Not enough to be have hypertonia or spasticity, but enough to make you chronically a bit tight when compared to others. The Rx will still be exercise and stretching, but maybe this would explain why you have to work on it a lot more than some people.

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[quote]Powerpuff wrote:
This thread needs more ballet. :slight_smile:

Just another perspective. FWIW, this comes from my experience with my daughter who has muscle tone issues. There is a range of normal muscle tone, or tension on the muscles. Some people are a bit on the low side, and other people are a bit on the high side. It’s more a function of the Central Nervous System than your actual muscle fibers. To put it really simply, much of our muscle tension is controlled by the brain. You may happen to be an individual who has tone on the high end of the range. Not enough to be have hypertonia or spasticity, but enough to make you chronically a bit tight when compared to others. The Rx will still be exercise and stretching, but maybe this would explain why you have to work on it a lot more than some people. [/quote]

Anything you have to contribute would be appreciated. I’d actually love to hear a ballerina’s perspective on improving flexibility or any additional stretches or stretching tips that you have to offer.

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Thanks a lot Sento guy for those helpful vids. Will check them out when I have time.

Would also like to add that I have actually been doing intensive foam rolling for years on my hip flexor and quad area before doing those hip flexor stretches (and again, that hasn’t done anything for my posture) - and is it true that static stretching basically doesn’t work at all if not preceded by foam rolling?

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[quote]lunk wrote:
Thanks a lot Sento guy for those helpful vids. Will check them out when I have time.

Would also like to add that I have actually been doing intensive foam rolling for years on my hip flexor and quad area before doing those hip flexor stretches (and again, that hasn’t done anything for my posture) - and is it true that static stretching basically doesn’t work at all if not preceded by foam rolling?[/quote]

First, in regards to the foam rolling, just like stretching I see a lot of people who push the intensity too hard and thus don’t ever actually release the muscles/get the benefits that they should get from it. There are multiple layers of soft tissue (including fascia and muscle) and you just can’t dig right through the outer layers to get to the deeper layers in most cases, yet this is exactly what a lot of people who “don’t get much from foam rolling” do.

What you need to do is to:

  1. identify the trigger points/sensitive areas
  2. apply just enough pressure that you feel very slight discomfort
  3. maintain that pressure level until you feel the muscle release/relax and there is no more discomfort
  4. increase pressure again until you feel slight discomfort again and repeat the process

Alternatively, you can mobilize the muscle (in the case of the quads that would mean flexing and extending the knee joint while maintaining an extended hip position) with the different increasing levels of pressure applied to it (as deeper and deeper layers of soft tissue release).

A good rule that I use with my clients when foam rolling is "if you are gritting your teeth or can’t comfortably stay in position for extended periods, you are going too hard and need to lighten up. The facial muscles have a lot of influence on the tension levels in the rest of the body, so trying to keep a “calm”/relaxed face and a relaxed body overall will greatly enhance the effectiveness of rolling and stretching in general. On the flip side, if you are in pain you will probably tighten up all over and “guard” against the pain, thus making rolling or stretching far less effective.

In regards to static stretching, it somewhat depends on how you do it. Again, if you are going to the point where your muscles are burning like crazy or shaking, then you are missing the point and it’s not going to work very well. If you simply perform a single static stretch lasting 30-60 seconds and get the muscles to relax in that first “stretched” ROM, then static stretching will for the most part allow you to maintain your current ROM or very slowly increase your ROM (but the increase will probably be so slow that it’s pretty unnoticeable). If you take the muscle to the initial “stretch reflex” point, wait for it to relax, then continue to repeat the process with greater and greater ROM’s until you eventually find your body’s limit for that day and hold that final ROM until your muscles relax, then static stretching can and will provide noticeable increases in ROM over the course of time. Again though, this type of intense static stretching will likely leave your muscles sore for a couple days later and thus should not be performed every day (just like PNF).

Rolling ahead of time (just like warming-up extensively or working the muscles out) will allow the muscles to more easily “stretch” and thus make the process of finding you “limit ROM” for that day quicker/easier. But, it is not mandatory in order for static stretching to be effective.

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And again, what specifically is causing your posture dysfunction may or may not be due to lack of ROM in the hip flexors.

I have a client who when he first came to me had one of the worst cases of Lordosis that I have ever seen. As a result he had herniated one of his disks, had constant back pain, and had just about destroyed both of his shoulders. Today his posture is markedly improved though he still has a number of faulty movement patterns that we are working on ironing out and tight muscles that we are working on re teaching to elongate more easily (while of course also strengthening the opposing muscles).

One of the primary causes to this individual’s poor posture turned out to be a general lack of awareness of where his joints were supposed to be during movement and an incorrect mental/kinesthetic concept of what constituted “correct” posture. His hip flexors and quads were (and still are to a lesser extent) tight of course, as was his lumber extensors. He also lacked a correct understanding of the proper movement pattern/muscular recruitment pattern of “flattening/hollowing” the lumbar spine and thus his forward spinal flexors were weak/somewhat dormant while standing.

So, it’s possible that you actually have the capability to stand with a neutral spine but just don’t know how or have an incorrect conceptual/motor recruitment pattern of what that means. In that case shadowzz 's advice may be spot on in terms of actually achieving a correct posture.

Really, the only way that we’ll be able to know for sure is for you to video yourself performing the stretches and the exercises as well as one of you standing and doing your best to go from an APT, to a neutral spine, and finally attempting a PPT position. I’d also recommend a video of you doing the same thing on all fours (this will remove the hip flexor mobility aspect and let us see if there is something in your core that might be limiting you). A side view would be the best angle for all of the above videos. Finally, while you’re at it I’d suggest doing an overhead mobility test which involves laying on your back on the floor (every part of your back should be in contact with the floor, no space at all), bending your legs to again remove the hip extension aspect, grabbing a stick at just wider than shoulders width, keeping your arms totally straight and then trying to bring your knuckles/the stick to the floor overhead. My guess is that you won’t be able to do so without your lower back arching off the floor.

51

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]Powerpuff wrote:
This thread needs more ballet. :slight_smile:

[/quote]

Anything you have to contribute would be appreciated. I’d actually love to hear a ballerina’s perspective on improving flexibility or any additional stretches or stretching tips that you have to offer.[/quote]

Sentoguy, you are killing it with the helpful advice here. Thanks for posting the videos, and for all the explanation. I do think most people could benefit from mixing in some yoga, ballet, or martial arts. We do so much to tighten muscles, with very little thought to flexibility. It’s like being harsh on the people who just do cardio, with no thought to strength training. Ideally, there’s both.

When I take ballet, the classes are two hours long, twice per week. Approximately an hour of that time is warming up, lots of dynamic stretching and barre work, then more static stretches at the barre and on the floor. Warm muscles is a factor, but they also keep the studio warm enough to have everybody sweating. After we dance, there’s more stretching before we leave.

When I lift, I like to stretch in between sets. Not necessarily the muscle I’m training, but it’s a good way to work it in and save time. I keep a resistance band handy, and also use the bar as a barre. :slight_smile:

I was going to say, your comment about knowing where your joints should be, and finding the correct posture is spot on. I have some mild lordosis as well, and my ballet teacher was really good at correcting it. Often when people “feel” they are standing correctly, they aren’t. There’s a relearning. Also, I was too aggressive with stretching my hamstrings, and was mostly just stretching my low back. She teaches a class called “Condition and Correct” that I’d love to take if I could find the time. Lunk, if you were here, I’d tell you to book a good consultation with her.

Years of running, then lifting really tightened up my muscles, especially my hamstrings. On the positive side, the muscles do have a memory. I was surprised that I could get my splits back after only a couple of months of ballet. The flexibility came back quickly for me.

I know there’s a lot of free content on the web. Do any of you know of a really good book on flexibility?

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Flexibility theory or stretches?

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“Stretching and Flexibility” by Kit Laughlin is the best book available on the subject IMO. It has tons of stretches ranging from beginner to advanced levels of flexibility, pretty much covers every muscle group/movement pattern in the body, talks about the physiology of stretching and even has a lesson plan that one could follow to gain flexibility.

“Relax into Stretch” by Pavel Tsatsouline is another good one, as is “Stretching Scientifically” by Thomas Kurz.

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[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
“Stretching and Flexibility” by Kit Laughlin is the best book available on the subject IMO. It has tons of stretches ranging from beginner to advanced levels of flexibility, pretty much covers every muscle group/movement pattern in the body, talks about the physiology of stretching and even has a lesson plan that one could follow to gain flexibility.

“Relax into Stretch” by Pavel Tsatsouline is another good one, as is “Stretching Scientifically” by Thomas Kurz.[/quote]

Smallmike - A bit of both I think.

Sentoguy - Thank you. I had been looking at “Relax into Stretch” on Amazon. I’ll look for the Kit Laughlin book to start.

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[quote]Powerpuff wrote:
I know there’s a lot of free content on the web. Do any of you know of a really good book on flexibility? [/quote]

Puff, I cannot recommend Dr. Kelly Starrett’s latest book, “Becoming a Supple Leopard”, highly enough. He doesn’t just address stretching; he teaches the reader how to move properly in the gym and real life. This book has changed the way I move and feel dramatically.

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[quote]Consul wrote:

[quote]Powerpuff wrote:
I know there’s a lot of free content on the web. Do any of you know of a really good book on flexibility? [/quote]

Puff, I cannot recommend Dr. Kelly Starrett’s latest book, “Becoming a Supple Leopard”, highly enough. He doesn’t just address stretching; he teaches the reader how to move properly in the gym and real life. This book has changed the way I move and feel dramatically. [/quote]

I see it. It’s by the founder of Mobility WOD. Thank you, Consul.

BTW, the title is awful. I picture a white guy with his shirt unbuttoned, a fro, and a 70’s stache teaching a couple’s massage class. I thought you were joking - As in, “Watch me get Puff to google this supple leopard book.” Maybe I’m the only one who visualizes a Saturday Night Live skit.

57

^ Sleep deprived, and have recently watched too many episodes of Arrested Development. :slight_smile:

I think I’ll start with the “Stretching and Flexibility” by Kit Laughlin. “Becoming a Supple Leopard” is new and still in hardcover, so I will wait until it comes down in price a bit or is released in a softcover. Thanks!

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[quote]Powerpuff wrote:

[quote]Consul wrote:

[quote]Powerpuff wrote:
I know there’s a lot of free content on the web. Do any of you know of a really good book on flexibility? [/quote]

Puff, I cannot recommend Dr. Kelly Starrett’s latest book, “Becoming a Supple Leopard”, highly enough. He doesn’t just address stretching; he teaches the reader how to move properly in the gym and real life. This book has changed the way I move and feel dramatically. [/quote]

I see it. It’s by the founder of Mobility WOD. Thank you, Consul.

BTW, the title is awful. I picture a white guy with his shirt unbuttoned, a fro, and a 70’s stache teaching a couple’s massage class. I thought you were joking - As in, “Watch me get Puff to google this supple leopard book.” Maybe I’m the only one who visualizes a Saturday Night Live skit. [/quote]

LOL.

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[quote]Powerpuff wrote:
^ Sleep deprived, and have recently watched too many episodes of Arrested Development. :slight_smile:

I think I’ll start with the “Stretching and Flexibility” by Kit Laughlin. “Becoming a Supple Leopard” is new and still in hardcover, so I will wait until it comes down in price a bit or is released in a softcover. Thanks!
[/quote]

For some reason I was picturing Anchor Man when you made that comment (like a “Sex Panther” commercial or something along those lines), but AD is a great reference too.