Tight All Over?

[quote]Consul wrote:

[quote]Shadowzz4 wrote:
It seems to be a bunch of stretches and some release techniques, which have limited value.
[/quote]

If this is your view of MobilityWod, you have failed to understand the concepts at all. MobilityWOD is a movement based system that is designed to correct the dysfunction we acquire through our unnatural way of living. The reason we need to work on our mobility is because we are not functioning in the environment we evolved in. As Fletch has patiently pointed out, animals and your stereotypical Burmese man do not spend their days hunched over desks or behind the wheel of a car.
[/quote]

I get the concepts. They are wrong.

[quote]Consul wrote:

[quote]Shadowzz4 wrote:
It seems to be a bunch of stretches and some release techniques, which have limited value.
[/quote]

If this is your view of MobilityWod, you have failed to understand the concepts at all. MobilityWOD is a movement based system that is designed to correct the dysfunction we acquire through our unnatural way of living. The reason we need to work on our mobility is because we are not functioning in the environment we evolved in. As Fletch has patiently pointed out, animals and your stereotypical Burmese man do not spend their days hunched over desks or behind the wheel of a car.
[/quote]

No need to be patient either. I’ve thought about this 10 times more than you two combined. I went the super complicated way, stretch and release everything. It doesn’t work.

Oh we sit down, need to stretch and release all that stuff, pec minor, psoas, blah blah blah.

Doesn’t work.

[quote]Shadowzz4 wrote:

[quote]Consul wrote:

[quote]Shadowzz4 wrote:
It seems to be a bunch of stretches and some release techniques, which have limited value.
[/quote]

If this is your view of MobilityWod, you have failed to understand the concepts at all. MobilityWOD is a movement based system that is designed to correct the dysfunction we acquire through our unnatural way of living. The reason we need to work on our mobility is because we are not functioning in the environment we evolved in. As Fletch has patiently pointed out, animals and your stereotypical Burmese man do not spend their days hunched over desks or behind the wheel of a car.
[/quote]

No need to be patient either. I’ve thought about this 10 times more than you two combined. I went the super complicated way, stretch and release everything. It doesn’t work.

Oh we sit down, need to stretch and release all that stuff, pec minor, psoas, blah blah blah.

Doesn’t work.[/quote]

I still can’t find where you advocate what TO DO…only what NOT to do

What’s your solution?

Related:

although helpful and I do use it when I am having problems with a particular area/injury, I do find that mobilityWOD can be little “over the top” with some things

tweet

mobilityWOD is great to regain some flexibility so you can perform movements full a through ROM, whether it’s corrective exercises or things like squats etc

ultimately though you have to fix what issues are causing the mobility deficits in the first place, as those mobilityWOD drills provide only temporary correction.

OP, I’m not going to get into the whole argument over MobilityWOD.

Instead I’d suggest that you perform some PNF stretching 2 times a week (with 3-4 days between sessions) for any and all very tight muscle groups. I’d also suggest that, if you are having an issue with recruitment, that you contract the antagonistic muscle from the one you are trying to stretch (for instance contract the quad and hip flexor when stretching the hamstrings) during your PNF stretches.

Also, the best time to actually gain flexibility is at the end of your workouts when your muscles are very warm, at least slightly fatigued (meaning they will fight you less during your stretches), and you are trying to gradually return your body back to a relatively resting state. So do stretches for your lower body after lower body intensive workouts and upper body stretches after upper body workouts.

Perform 1 static stretch for all of your major muscle groups (or at least the tight ones) on all other days of the week.

Good luck

[quote]carbiduis wrote:

[quote]Shadowzz4 wrote:

[quote]Consul wrote:

[quote]Shadowzz4 wrote:
It seems to be a bunch of stretches and some release techniques, which have limited value.
[/quote]

If this is your view of MobilityWod, you have failed to understand the concepts at all. MobilityWOD is a movement based system that is designed to correct the dysfunction we acquire through our unnatural way of living. The reason we need to work on our mobility is because we are not functioning in the environment we evolved in. As Fletch has patiently pointed out, animals and your stereotypical Burmese man do not spend their days hunched over desks or behind the wheel of a car.
[/quote]

No need to be patient either. I’ve thought about this 10 times more than you two combined. I went the super complicated way, stretch and release everything. It doesn’t work.

Oh we sit down, need to stretch and release all that stuff, pec minor, psoas, blah blah blah.

Doesn’t work.[/quote]

I still can’t find where you advocate what TO DO…only what NOT to do

What’s your solution? [/quote]

Glute Activation. Want to get more flexible? Glute Activation. If Glute Activation isn’t a problem, then stretch! But if you are tight all over, it’s not a stretching issue.

Also, the amount of people that are at the level where it’s only a stretching issue are very few. So your only different in magnitude not type.

Here is another issue. If your hips aren’t sorted out. You will not even be able to place tension on the muscle you think is tight.

You heard that right. If all you need to do to stretch out your hamstrings is to put yourself into a position where you can get some tension on the muscle and stretch it out, then your body works pretty damn good.

My guess is, you won’t really be able to get good tension on the muscles you think are tight with any style of stretching.

^^ shadow, trust me, I do all the bird/dogs, glute bridge iso holds, single legged glute bridges, supine pelvic tilts, RKC planks, body saws, reverse crunches and dead bugs in the world, and have done consistently for years, and none of it has done jack to increase my mobility.

[quote]lunk wrote:
^^ shadow, trust me, I do all the bird/dogs, glute bridge iso holds, single legged glute bridges, supine pelvic tilts, RKC planks, body saws, reverse crunches and dead bugs in the world, and have done consistently for years, and none of it has done jack to increase my mobility.[/quote]

Yea… Yea… see here’s the thing. Iv’e seen plenty of people do them. But no one does them right. Including you.

Seriously though. Those exercises are VERY VERY seldom done correctly.

[quote]Shadowzz4 wrote:

[quote]lunk wrote:
^^ shadow, trust me, I do all the bird/dogs, glute bridge iso holds, single legged glute bridges, supine pelvic tilts, RKC planks, body saws, reverse crunches and dead bugs in the world, and have done consistently for years, and none of it has done jack to increase my mobility.[/quote]

Yea… Yea… see here’s the thing. Iv’e seen plenty of people do them. But no one does them right. Including you.

Seriously though. Those exercises are VERY VERY seldom done correctly.
[/quote]

Don’t tease - how do I do them right?

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Also, the best time to actually gain flexibility is at the end of your workouts when your muscles are very warm, at least slightly fatigued (meaning they will fight you less during your stretches), and you are trying to gradually return your body back to a relatively resting state. So do stretches for your lower body after lower body intensive workouts and upper body stretches after upper body workouts.
[/quote]

This is excellent advice. I only realised this recently. Also, I find that I get much tighter after I train if I don’t do some targeted stretching and soft tissue work as a cool down.

[quote]Shadowzz4 wrote:
Seriously though. Those exercises are VERY VERY seldom done correctly.
[/quote]

So, what are you saying? Nobody can do these correctly, so why bother?

tweet

[quote]theBird wrote:

[quote]Shadowzz4 wrote:
Seriously though. Those exercises are VERY VERY seldom done correctly.
[/quote]

So, what are you saying? Nobody can do these correctly, so why bother?

tweet[/quote]

No, I’m saying just because you are doing something doesn’t mean you are doing it correctly. And those exercises are the easiest to do incorrectly.

If you look at the best strength coaches, Boyle, Cressey, Robertson etc… what do they all have in common. They can get the glutes working. All of the other stuff they do is great it is done in a very different biomechanical environment.

[quote]lunk wrote:
^^ shadow, trust me, I do all the bird/dogs, glute bridge iso holds, single legged glute bridges, supine pelvic tilts, RKC planks, body saws, reverse crunches and dead bugs in the world, and have done consistently for years, and none of it has done jack to increase my mobility.[/quote]

Why would you expect that any of those exercises would result in any appreciable increase in ROM? You aren’t going through much if any range of motion while doing those. The supine glutes bridges, iso bridge holds and single leg bridges are good glute strengthening exercises, but they aren’t going to give you much if any noticeable increase in hip mobility in the short term.

Active flexibility (which is what Glute bridges would qualify as) is important for application of flexibility (which is often called mobility), but it’s not the best way to gain it. The best way is through passive flexibility exercises (actually PNF is the most effective method). In fact, active flexibility can never exceed passive flexibility and in most cases passive flexibility levels exceed active flexibility levels.

With all due respect to guys like Robertson or Cressey, their athletes are pitifully tight compared to Dancers, Gymnasts, adavanced level Yogi’s, and kicking intensive Martial Artsists. What do all of those athletes have in common? They do a ton of static passive stretching along with lots of dynamic and static active stretching.

Again, if you want to make noticeable increases in your mobility you need to start doing static passive (or better yet PNF) stretching on a regular basis (best case scenario would be to do PNF 2x per week per muscle group and regular static passive stretching the other 5 days of the week). Then, once you’ve retaught your neuromuscular system that it doesn’t need to “hit the breaks” (engage the stretch reflex) until further and further into the range of motion, you will be able to “magically” move through a greater ROM voluntarily.

To illustrate my point, straighten your arms, crunch your abs (think of pulling your ribs down or trying to completely take the curve out of your lower back), keep your head neutral (or better yet keep your neck “packed”) and try to raise your arms completely overhead. From a physics standpoint the weakest place in the range of motion is where your arms are parallel to the ground. However, what you are likely to find is that this will not be where you feel the “end” of your ROM, or where your shoulders and traps will start really straining to continue to raise your arms.

The reason for this is that the strength in your traps and delts is not what is limiting your ROM ( just as the strength in your glutes is probably not limiting your hip extension ROM). What is limiting your ROM is that your body is firing the antagonistic muscles (your pec major, pec minor, lats, Teres major and/or rear deltoid), aka “putting on the brakes”, to stop you from exceeding the “safe” (or more accurately accustomed) range of motion and injuring yourself. If you reset this “safe” ROM though, your body won’t put on the brakes until later in the ROM and thus you will be able to comfortable move through a greater ROM.

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]lunk wrote:
^^ shadow, trust me, I do all the bird/dogs, glute bridge iso holds, single legged glute bridges, supine pelvic tilts, RKC planks, body saws, reverse crunches and dead bugs in the world, and have done consistently for years, and none of it has done jack to increase my mobility.[/quote]

Why would you expect that any of those exercises would result in any appreciable increase in ROM? You aren’t going through much if any range of motion while doing those. The supine glutes bridges, iso bridge holds and single leg bridges are good glute strengthening exercises, but they aren’t going to give you much if any noticeable increase in hip mobility in the short term.

Active flexibility (which is what Glute bridges would qualify as) is important for application of flexibility (which is often called mobility), but it’s not the best way to gain it. The best way is through passive flexibility exercises (actually PNF is the most effective method). In fact, active flexibility can never exceed passive flexibility and in most cases passive flexibility levels exceed active flexibility levels.

With all due respect to guys like Robertson or Cressey, their athletes are pitifully tight compared to Dancers, Gymnasts, adavanced level Yogi’s, and kicking intensive Martial Artsists. What do all of those athletes have in common? They do a ton of static passive stretching along with lots of dynamic and static active stretching.

Again, if you want to make noticeable increases in your mobility you need to start doing static passive (or better yet PNF) stretching on a regular basis (best case scenario would be to do PNF 2x per week per muscle group and regular static passive stretching the other 5 days of the week). Then, once you’ve retaught your neuromuscular system that it doesn’t need to “hit the breaks” (engage the stretch reflex) until further and further into the range of motion, you will be able to “magically” move through a greater ROM voluntarily.

To illustrate my point, straighten your arms, crunch your abs (think of pulling your ribs down or trying to completely take the curve out of your lower back), keep your head neutral (or better yet keep your neck “packed”) and try to raise your arms completely overhead. From a physics standpoint the weakest place in the range of motion is where your arms are parallel to the ground. However, what you are likely to find is that this will not be where you feel the “end” of your ROM, or where your shoulders and traps will start really straining to continue to raise your arms.

The reason for this is that the strength in your traps and delts is not what is limiting your ROM ( just as the strength in your glutes is probably not limiting your hip extension ROM). What is limiting your ROM is that your body is firing the antagonistic muscles (your pec major, pec minor, lats, Teres major and/or rear deltoid), aka “putting on the brakes”, to stop you from exceeding the “safe” (or more accurately accustomed) range of motion and injuring yourself. If you reset this “safe” ROM though, your body won’t put on the brakes until later in the ROM and thus you will be able to comfortable move through a greater ROM.
[/quote]

It depends on what school of thought you are coming from. I come from the school of thought that most things are tight because they are being asked to do something they shouldn’t be doing. Removing the reason the body is using them in the first place is the root of the issue. Stretching helps, but it’s secondary.

Great flexibility with little strength is not helpful for strength training purposes. You need to be able to demonstrate you have strength with range of motion. Some who do what you mentioned earlier will have this. Most people I have trained that have done alot of yoga, sure they are flexible, but in a worthless way. They have no tension in their posterior chain. It becomes apparent when they all have knee and back pain until we can improve their strength.

And if something was tight, it would be hip flexors, if you have a weak posterior chain your not going to be able to stretch your hip flexors.

[quote]Shadowzz4 wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]lunk wrote:
^^ shadow, trust me, I do all the bird/dogs, glute bridge iso holds, single legged glute bridges, supine pelvic tilts, RKC planks, body saws, reverse crunches and dead bugs in the world, and have done consistently for years, and none of it has done jack to increase my mobility.[/quote]

Why would you expect that any of those exercises would result in any appreciable increase in ROM? You aren’t going through much if any range of motion while doing those. The supine glutes bridges, iso bridge holds and single leg bridges are good glute strengthening exercises, but they aren’t going to give you much if any noticeable increase in hip mobility in the short term.

Active flexibility (which is what Glute bridges would qualify as) is important for application of flexibility (which is often called mobility), but it’s not the best way to gain it. The best way is through passive flexibility exercises (actually PNF is the most effective method). In fact, active flexibility can never exceed passive flexibility and in most cases passive flexibility levels exceed active flexibility levels.

With all due respect to guys like Robertson or Cressey, their athletes are pitifully tight compared to Dancers, Gymnasts, adavanced level Yogi’s, and kicking intensive Martial Artsists. What do all of those athletes have in common? They do a ton of static passive stretching along with lots of dynamic and static active stretching.

Again, if you want to make noticeable increases in your mobility you need to start doing static passive (or better yet PNF) stretching on a regular basis (best case scenario would be to do PNF 2x per week per muscle group and regular static passive stretching the other 5 days of the week). Then, once you’ve retaught your neuromuscular system that it doesn’t need to “hit the breaks” (engage the stretch reflex) until further and further into the range of motion, you will be able to “magically” move through a greater ROM voluntarily.

To illustrate my point, straighten your arms, crunch your abs (think of pulling your ribs down or trying to completely take the curve out of your lower back), keep your head neutral (or better yet keep your neck “packed”) and try to raise your arms completely overhead. From a physics standpoint the weakest place in the range of motion is where your arms are parallel to the ground. However, what you are likely to find is that this will not be where you feel the “end” of your ROM, or where your shoulders and traps will start really straining to continue to raise your arms.

The reason for this is that the strength in your traps and delts is not what is limiting your ROM ( just as the strength in your glutes is probably not limiting your hip extension ROM). What is limiting your ROM is that your body is firing the antagonistic muscles (your pec major, pec minor, lats, Teres major and/or rear deltoid), aka “putting on the brakes”, to stop you from exceeding the “safe” (or more accurately accustomed) range of motion and injuring yourself. If you reset this “safe” ROM though, your body won’t put on the brakes until later in the ROM and thus you will be able to comfortable move through a greater ROM.
[/quote]

It depends on what school of thought you are coming from. I come from the school of thought that most things are tight because they are being asked to do something they shouldn’t be doing. Removing the reason the body is using them in the first place is the root of the issue. Stretching helps, but it’s secondary.

Great flexibility with little strength is not helpful for strength training purposes. You need to be able to demonstrate you have strength with range of motion. Some who do what you mentioned earlier will have this. Most people I have trained that have done alot of yoga, sure they are flexible, but in a worthless way. They have no tension in their posterior chain. It becomes apparent when they all have knee and back pain until we can improve their strength.

And if something was tight, it would be hip flexors, if you have a weak posterior chain your not going to be able to stretch your hip flexors.[/quote]

We’re both in total agreement that strengthening the posterior chain is a good thing and that there are flexible, yet weak people out there.

But like I said, passive flexibility will always preceed active flexibility. All athletes or individuals who attain elite levels of mobility (who start training as adults) do so via static passive or PNF stretching. So, if the OP wants to improve his mobility (more accurately active flexibility), then he needs to start doing static passive and/or PNF stretching on a regular basis. He should of course also perform exercises to strengthen his glutes, hamstrings and abdominal muscles (as well as work heavily on his shoulder flexion flexibility and mobility as IME most people with APT also have poor shoulder flexion flexibility/mobility) as that will allow him to access more and more of his passive ROM during movement.

While some Glute activation can help when stretching the hip flexors and quads, it hardly takes huge amounts of Glute strength to do so if you stretch properly.

^^ thanks for taking the time to write your responses! What I mainly want is posture correction (reduced anterior pelvic tilt) - and this is why I’ve been doing all the bird/dogs, glute briges, supine pelvic tilts, body saws, RKC planks…etc…

When I actually do them I’m sure I can feel the ‘target’ areas working, as my glutes burn up and my lower abs get sore. But the thing is - my posture remains absolutely unchanged from doing this. I know that correction exercises are only part of the equation - you have to change your posture generally. Sometimes I just try to squeeze my butt as hard as possible for every waking second, but, mentally I get burned out from doing that - I can’t concentrate on anything else.

How do I actually change my posture away from anterior pelvic tilt?

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]Shadowzz4 wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]lunk wrote:
^^ shadow, trust me, I do all the bird/dogs, glute bridge iso holds, single legged glute bridges, supine pelvic tilts, RKC planks, body saws, reverse crunches and dead bugs in the world, and have done consistently for years, and none of it has done jack to increase my mobility.[/quote]

Why would you expect that any of those exercises would result in any appreciable increase in ROM? You aren’t going through much if any range of motion while doing those. The supine glutes bridges, iso bridge holds and single leg bridges are good glute strengthening exercises, but they aren’t going to give you much if any noticeable increase in hip mobility in the short term.

Active flexibility (which is what Glute bridges would qualify as) is important for application of flexibility (which is often called mobility), but it’s not the best way to gain it. The best way is through passive flexibility exercises (actually PNF is the most effective method). In fact, active flexibility can never exceed passive flexibility and in most cases passive flexibility levels exceed active flexibility levels.

With all due respect to guys like Robertson or Cressey, their athletes are pitifully tight compared to Dancers, Gymnasts, adavanced level Yogi’s, and kicking intensive Martial Artsists. What do all of those athletes have in common? They do a ton of static passive stretching along with lots of dynamic and static active stretching.

Again, if you want to make noticeable increases in your mobility you need to start doing static passive (or better yet PNF) stretching on a regular basis (best case scenario would be to do PNF 2x per week per muscle group and regular static passive stretching the other 5 days of the week). Then, once you’ve retaught your neuromuscular system that it doesn’t need to “hit the breaks” (engage the stretch reflex) until further and further into the range of motion, you will be able to “magically” move through a greater ROM voluntarily.

To illustrate my point, straighten your arms, crunch your abs (think of pulling your ribs down or trying to completely take the curve out of your lower back), keep your head neutral (or better yet keep your neck “packed”) and try to raise your arms completely overhead. From a physics standpoint the weakest place in the range of motion is where your arms are parallel to the ground. However, what you are likely to find is that this will not be where you feel the “end” of your ROM, or where your shoulders and traps will start really straining to continue to raise your arms.

The reason for this is that the strength in your traps and delts is not what is limiting your ROM ( just as the strength in your glutes is probably not limiting your hip extension ROM). What is limiting your ROM is that your body is firing the antagonistic muscles (your pec major, pec minor, lats, Teres major and/or rear deltoid), aka “putting on the brakes”, to stop you from exceeding the “safe” (or more accurately accustomed) range of motion and injuring yourself. If you reset this “safe” ROM though, your body won’t put on the brakes until later in the ROM and thus you will be able to comfortable move through a greater ROM.
[/quote]

It depends on what school of thought you are coming from. I come from the school of thought that most things are tight because they are being asked to do something they shouldn’t be doing. Removing the reason the body is using them in the first place is the root of the issue. Stretching helps, but it’s secondary.

Great flexibility with little strength is not helpful for strength training purposes. You need to be able to demonstrate you have strength with range of motion. Some who do what you mentioned earlier will have this. Most people I have trained that have done alot of yoga, sure they are flexible, but in a worthless way. They have no tension in their posterior chain. It becomes apparent when they all have knee and back pain until we can improve their strength.

And if something was tight, it would be hip flexors, if you have a weak posterior chain your not going to be able to stretch your hip flexors.[/quote]

We’re both in total agreement that strengthening the posterior chain is a good thing and that there are flexible, yet weak people out there.

But like I said, passive flexibility will always preceed active flexibility. All athletes or individuals who attain elite levels of mobility (who start training as adults) do so via static passive or PNF stretching. So, if the OP wants to improve his mobility (more accurately active flexibility), then he needs to start doing static passive and/or PNF stretching on a regular basis. He should of course also perform exercises to strengthen his glutes, hamstrings and abdominal muscles (as well as work heavily on his shoulder flexion flexibility and mobility as IME most people with APT also have poor shoulder flexion flexibility/mobility) as that will allow him to access more and more of his passive ROM during movement.

While some Glute activation can help when stretching the hip flexors and quads, it hardly takes huge amounts of Glute strength to do so if you stretch properly.[/quote]

I come at it from a different side, I don’t think he will get much out of stretching UNTIL he gets his glutes going. So maybe we are on the same page, just a different order of what is most important.

I am not advocating getting the glutes massively strong, not that thats a bad thing, instead I’m saying get them working the right way, which at first will only be a subtle bit. But that is all it will take to get things going properly.

My experience with glutes is that unlike other joints and muscle such as the bicep where as the muscle gets stronger the elbow can flex more powerfully, glutes are working so poorly in most people that the hip joint stops functioning correctly. So its not a get the butt super strong thing, just a get it working to the point the hip joint is starting to work properly, its extremely low level stuff but it has to be done IMO or he wont get anywhere.

[quote]lunk wrote:
^^ thanks for taking the time to write your responses! What I mainly want is posture correction (reduced anterior pelvic tilt) - and this is why I’ve been doing all the bird/dogs, glute briges, supine pelvic tilts, body saws, RKC planks…etc…

When I actually do them I’m sure I can feel the ‘target’ areas working, as my glutes burn up and my lower abs get sore. But the thing is - my posture remains absolutely unchanged from doing this. I know that correction exercises are only part of the equation - you have to change your posture generally. Sometimes I just try to squeeze my butt as hard as possible for every waking second, but, mentally I get burned out from doing that - I can’t concentrate on anything else.

How do I actually change my posture away from anterior pelvic tilt?[/quote]

Your butt burning means absolutely nothing. It COULD be working correctly. But it could also not be. The glutes being sore and burning during exercises is not the same thing as that muscle being used properly in a biomechanical sense.

The main issue with the glutes is that lets say they are not working well. IF you do something right now for them that has your butt burning like crazy, it’s almost certainly incorrect. IF you could get the whole butt working so well right away you wouldn’t have a problem to begin with.

^ what do you suggest I do? You say that glute activation exercises re always done correctly, but I pay extra attention to form (ie., try to put myself in poterior pelvic tilt at the top of glute briges, and when doing planks), and I feel the target muscle being worked - but I’m still doing it wrong? How do I do it right? Or at least in a way that leads to actual posture change?