[quote]hueyOT wrote:
i never said anything about ‘slow controlled tempo’. you need to be careful about putting words into other people’s mouths.
[/quote]
Whoa, chief, I didn’t put any words into your mouth. In fact I said:
It took me a while to experiment and lift with different tempos. Back then, it never even occured to me to lift any other way. That’s all.
[quote]hueyOT wrote:
with bodybuilding, though… i think when you practise full ROMs you stand to get the most bang for your buck with any particular exercise. if you cut out particular parts of the ROM in any given exercise, you’re missing out on muscle stimulation.
i.e. your triceps get less work if you don’t lock out your bench reps i.e. ronnie coleman style.
i’m sure you can think of many other examples where lessened ROMs lead to less work getting done, and therefore less bang for your buck.[/quote]
It really depends. First, there is a difference between just not locking out a rep and significantly shortening the ROM. You don’t really take much off the ROM but not locking out.
Also, by not locking out, you are keeping constant tension on the muscle.
AS far as work done, I guess we could get into physics and say, yes, a shortned ROM is less work (where Work=Distance/Time). But, if you mean work as in “busting you ass,” then your talking about something different.
[quote]malonetd wrote:
hueyOT wrote:
with bodybuilding, though… i think when you practise full ROMs you stand to get the most bang for your buck with any particular exercise. if you cut out particular parts of the ROM in any given exercise, you’re missing out on muscle stimulation.
i.e. your triceps get less work if you don’t lock out your bench reps i.e. ronnie coleman style.
i’m sure you can think of many other examples where lessened ROMs lead to less work getting done, and therefore less bang for your buck.
It really depends. First, there is a difference between just not locking out a rep and significantly shortening the ROM. You don’t really take much off the ROM but not locking out.
Also, by not locking out, you are keeping constant tension on the muscle.
AS far as work done, I guess we could get into physics and say, yes, a shortned ROM is less work (where Work=Distance/Time). But, if you mean work as in “busting you ass,” then your talking about something different.
[/quote]
Very well put malonetd.
[quote]malonetd wrote:
hueyOT wrote:
with bodybuilding, though… i think when you practise full ROMs you stand to get the most bang for your buck with any particular exercise. if you cut out particular parts of the ROM in any given exercise, you’re missing out on muscle stimulation.
i.e. your triceps get less work if you don’t lock out your bench reps i.e. ronnie coleman style.
i’m sure you can think of many other examples where lessened ROMs lead to less work getting done, and therefore less bang for your buck.
It really depends. First, there is a difference between just not locking out a rep and significantly shortening the ROM. You don’t really take much off the ROM but not locking out.
Also, by not locking out, you are keeping constant tension on the muscle.
AS far as work done, I guess we could get into physics and say, yes, a shortned ROM is less work (where Work=Distance/Time). But, if you mean work as in “busting you ass,” then your talking about something different.
[/quote]
I agree, but the nerd in me says that work = force x distance and that power = work/time. So if you sacrifice a little distance and increase the speed tremendously, you’ll increase the power!
[quote]Kailash wrote:
HOV wrote:
But how the heck am I going to create similar effects as deadlifts with BW? Squats?
Isometrics is the only thing I can think of.
Single leg squats and deadlifts. Search the site for instructions on these bodyweight exercises.[/quote]
Bodyweight deadlifts? Okay… searching.
[quote]HOV wrote:
Kailash wrote:
HOV wrote:
But how the heck am I going to create similar effects as deadlifts with BW? Squats?
Isometrics is the only thing I can think of.
Single leg squats and deadlifts. Search the site for instructions on these bodyweight exercises.
Bodyweight deadlifts? Okay… searching.
[/quote]
Just reach down, grab your ankles and lift yourself off the floor. It is easy.
I heard single leg squat Jumps are incredible for your explosiveness and strength.
Some of the training these guys do is wild.
Personally, I think bodyweight training is great!
My bodyweight is 197, I really wish I could curl that. Or behind the neck press it.
Using your body as the form of resistance sucks though.
These videos got me thinking.
It seems like no one wants to watch videos of people doing old fashinod things like squats and deads and rows, so how about a video called…
“Honkee Training”
We will show guys in straw hats, bib overalls and rubber boots lifting hay, cutting hedgeposts and working on ancient vehicles. We can show rednecks setting up their mobile homes, and for leg training, we can show them trapesing through the woods, poaching a deer and carrying it on their backs back to their truck.
Maybe show some guy is a greasy mechanics shirt, with worn out boots and yellowed teeth smoking a cigarette and drinking beer, and after he gets drunk, we can film him beating his wife!
That was always my goal. Knocking-up a good christian girl, dropping out of high school, getting a shitty job as a mechanic, drinking and smoking, having a bunch of dirty little heathen children,and abusing my wife, because being the good christian girl that she is, she shurly knows that divorces are immoral.
The last paragraph there was sarcasm, hopefully you all know that.
[quote]BarneyFife wrote:
Some of the training these guys do is wild.
Personally, I think bodyweight training is great!
My bodyweight is 197, I really wish I could curl that. Or behind the neck press it.
Using your body as the form of resistance sucks though.
These videos got me thinking.
It seems like no one wants to watch videos of people doing old fashinod things like squats and deads and rows, so how about a video called…
“Honkee Training”
We will show guys in straw hats, bib overalls and rubber boots lifting hay, cutting hedgeposts and working on ancient vehicles. We can show rednecks setting up their mobile homes, and for leg training, we can show them trapesing through the woods, poaching a deer and carrying it on their backs back to their truck.
Maybe show some guy is a greasy mechanics shirt, with worn out boots and yellowed teeth smoking a cigarette and drinking beer, and after he gets drunk, we can film him beating his wife!
That was always my goal. Knocking-up a good christian girl, dropping out of high school, getting a shitty job as a mechanic, drinking and smoking, having a bunch of dirty little heathen children,and abusing my wife, because being the good christian girl that she is, she shurly knows that divorces are immoral.
The last paragraph there was sarcasm, hopefully you all know that.[/quote]
Back handing the wife is an excellent external rotator movement. You should try it!
Bodyweight exercises only can be good. You can achieve great results with them.
But you have to be a lot more scientific with them to achieve the same results as you do with weights. Far more scientific than what they were presenting.
Note I am not saying that it is all really complex etc… nor am I denying that going heavy and consistent over a long time won’t get results. Nor denying that they could have achieved those physiques training that way.
But I think most of those guys did it with freeweights mostly (not all the guys) and now are putting out this collection of training vids. Which is fine by me if it encourages people in the street to get out and do some exercise, especially kids, who are getting damned fat in this country at least.
Think how easy it is with free weights to increase the load / decrease the load, change the exercise, work explosively etc… and so forth change the reps etc… and so forth.
It is not so easy to do with bodyweight exercises, especially when they are not loading on extra weight.
It is possible. But it takes a lot of imagination.
The guy doing chins, then holding it at the top, and gliding his chin back and forth, that was one good method of increasing the load on one side then the other. That guy was the only guy I think may have achieved his results fully from bodyweight work. By doing so you can do a different kind of reps system, rather than just going up and down.
The main problem with bodyweight work is that difficulty of precisely changing the loads. And once you get used to your own bodyweight, it gets much harder to get an overload, rather you start building more endurance.
Also, were they working on accumulation / intensifying / supercompensating phases or just stuffing around in the playground willy nilly?
I am glad they did that video and I do hope it encourages people to work out more especially say, kids in the street who can’t afford to go to a gym.
I think there is a bit of misrepresentation there though, which I am not keen on.
And I’d like to see more imaginative bodyweight work.
For example get two towels, throw them over the bar, and chin up off the towels. And walk the towels along the bar, wider and narrower and back again. Towels are cheap (or use belts).
Swinging on a rope is good too, the greater / longer the swing the better, generating tonnes of forces on you as you speed up.
Hanging on one arm and then, lifting a bag or sack up with the other arm, lumping it over the bar, then switch arms and lower it with the other arm.
Man I should write a book (used to be a climber, know a tonne of bodyweight exercises, mostly made up by me)
Hi guys,
I checked out the videos and personally didn’t really see anything all that spectacular as far as exercises go. Sure, a muscle-up (pull-up dip combination) is a great exercise, but it’s certainly nothing to write home about. Also, the guy doing them was using a lot of body english which makes the exercise easier. In a perfectly performed muscle-up the only thing that moves are the arms (meaning no leaning or swinging with the body).
I don’t understand however why so many people are arguing that the guys in the videos could not have built their bodies using only bodyweight exercises. Sure, it’s definetely possible that they used a combination of bodyweight and free weights to develop themselves, but not definete.
The key to building an impressive physique using bodyweight exercises is to continually progress to more and more difficult variations of exercises, not to just add more reps (which is what most people seem to do). There are numerous ways to do so. One could;
switch from bilateral to unilateral variations (i.e. chin-ups to one arm chins, push ups to one arm push ups, squats to one legged squats)
decrease the leverage (i.e. regular push ups to planche push ups [many steps in between], pull ups to front lever pull ups [same as above])
add a plyometric element to the movements (i.e. one legged squats to jumping one legged squat variations, handstand push ups to handstand depth jumps, pull ups to monkey jumps)
decrease the stability of the exercise (i.e. push ups to push ups on rings, stability balls etc…)
As to the comment someone made earlier (sorry don’t have the time to read back through every post right now to find out who it was) about how to make one arm push ups harder, one could progress to one arm one legged push ups, then to doing them on an unstable surface (ring for example).
Finally in regards to bodyweight exercises building muscle comparable to free weight exercises, I’d have to argue that they can. Why? For several reasons.
First, because as one progresses to more and more difficult variations it becomes more and more imperative that one performs a whole body contraction. Why is this significant? Well, let’s think about one of the best free weight exercises for building overall body mass; i.e. the squat. Now, from a biomechanical standpoint, a squat only involves movement at the hip, knee, and to a small degree ankle joints. However, because those muscles are quite large and because the muscles surrounding the spine must also contract there is a large area that is under tension during this exercise. The result, a massive anabolic response.
The same goes for the body weight exercises. Because these exercises require a complete (and often times maximal) total body contraction to complete, the anabolic response is huge. Meaning that they build muscle as well (if not better) over the entire body than a back squat.
Don’t believe me? Take a look at competitive gymnasts, breakdancers, or in this case the guys in the videos. Would they win the Mr. O contest? No. But, then again none of the Mr. O competitors would look the way they do without the help of chemical enhancers.
Good training,
Sentoguy
wow great post dude
[quote]itsthetimman wrote:
How many pushups with my knees on the ground equal regular pushups? I can do about 250 and was wondering if that equates to the 100 that guy did with regular form.[/quote]
the better question is, why is a grown man doing push ups on his knees?
[quote]windmill85 wrote:
itsthetimman wrote:
How many pushups with my knees on the ground equal regular pushups? I can do about 250 and was wondering if that equates to the 100 that guy did with regular form.
the better question is, why is a grown man doing push ups on his knees?[/quote]
The even better question is why someone would ask a question like that in a thread entitled “Thug Training”.
“Naw, man, I would like to shoot the rock around with y’all but I have to get on my knees and do girl pushups real quick. What was that? Why did I dye my hair pink…and why I am wearing eyeshadow in the middle of Compton? Huh? And why am I wearing skin tight pleather pants and knee high boots with my throwback jersey? What, this isn’t cool…dawg? Where y’all goin’?”
[quote]windmill85 wrote:
itsthetimman wrote:
How many pushups with my knees on the ground equal regular pushups? I can do about 250 and was wondering if that equates to the 100 that guy did with regular form.
the better question is, why is a grown man doing push ups on his knees?[/quote]
I do knee pushups as a warm up but they are nowhere near the same as a real pushup. Hell, a girl in one of the classes I teach does ordinary pushups, thinks knee pushups are a waste (she’s a wrestler).
Please note that as an old guy (51), I’ve learned to warm-up before doing ANY exercise. Knee pushups are a good warm-up for the real deal.
I think a good goal for all of us would be to try to replicate what those guys did on the vids. They are awesome.
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Hi guys,
Sentoguy[/quote]
They CAN build their bodies through bodyweight exercises alone, but it is much harder as far as knowing what you are doing, and from those videos I did not think they were that sophisticated - unless that was just a taster, and they have tonnes of great stuff in extra videos?
Hi Magarhe,
Well, harder in what sense? Do you believe that the ordinary person would more easily be able to figure out free weight exercises, or how to build their physiques utilizing free weights on their own? Honestly, I doubt it.
In my opinion the reason why the majority of people utilize free weight exercises is because they are readily available and much more highly publicized. There are tonnes of free weight exercise articles filling main stream muscle mags these days. Most trainers utilize free weight exercises, or in the least have no clue whatsoever how to progress to advanced bodyweight exercises.
So, the bodybuilding world has become so saturated by free weight exercises that the majority of it has actually convinced itself that free weights are the only true path to building an impressive physique. Therefore, most of it’s proponents don’t even bother looking “outside the box” towards other methods, such as bodyweight exercises.
This does not mean however that information concerning how to build one’s physique utilizing bodyweight exercises does not exist, or is not readily available to someone willing to seek it out. It just takes a willingness to search it out and to research for oneself.
Good training,
Sentoguy
Stetoguy - I love your posts! You are very knowlegable and smart. Thanks. Two quick questions - what are handstand depth jumps and monkey jumps? Thanks again.
Hi Jackson44,
Thanks for the compliment, but I’m just a student of exercise like the rest of the people on this board.
Handstand Depth Jumps:
1.Get into a handstand (free standing would be optimal, but you could do them either with a partner holding your feet for balance, or facing a wall so that you can rest your feet on the wall for balance)
Explode off your hands so that you jump off the floor.
Land with your hands close together, still in a handstand.
Explode off your hands so that you again jump off the floor.
Land with your hands far apart, still in a handstand.
Repeat
Monkey Jumps:
You’ll need a set of inclining monkey bars for these (although I have heard of people doing them on the backside of a stairwell).
Hang from the bar (back of a stair).
As explosively as possible pull yourself up. The idea is to literally jump yourself up to the next rung/step.
Grab hold of next highest rung/step.
Repeat.
Note: This exercise can later be made more difficult by attempting to jump multiple rungs/steps, and finally doing the jumps using only one arm.
Good training,
Sentoguy
Stentoguy - thanks for responding. Wow! I’m gonna try the monkey jumps soon. I actually saw someone doing this at the gym. He would swing on one of the chin up bar and “fly” to the next one. I tried it, but could do it. He said I needed to work on my “kip.” Thanks again for the info! Great stuff and I really appreicate your advice. Thanks again - Jack
ps any good workout reading materials or dvd that you recommend?