This Guy's 'Theory' on Steroid Use

Off Topic
81

[quote]imhungry wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]imhungry wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]DeltaOne wrote:
If it was up to me every men women and teenager over 21 would be taking a daily dose of test. Okay, maybe not women, because I like them when they look like women.

What boils me up in these discussions are people saying “you don’t need steroids”. Sure you don’t need it, you don’t need to smoke pot either, but a shitload of people do it simply to get high, you also don’t need to do coke, but people do it. Drinking ? Buying a BMW ? Being Batman ? Drinking water ? Having sex ? Nope, don’t need to do it.

So don’t use the “you don’t need to, unless” argument people, please. People are free to do whatever they want to do, there are consequences, but there shouldn’t be a point to everything.[/quote]
risk vs. value seems to be lost over every single head.

As a general comment, there is no bashing going on. No knee jerk reactions necessary.[/quote]

No, I understand the risk vs reward statement.

Most guys who take test feel pretty fucking good most of the time. Especially, the older crowd.

Do you know the health benefits of test?

What are the benefits of coke? How long does the wonderful feeling last?

Which one actually adds to the quality of life?[/quote]
That snark was not for you. You know I would marry you. If we are discussing medicinal use now I agree with you. Have since my first post in the thread. It was my understanding we were discussing illicit use to push gains for a literally empty value.[/quote]
“risk vs. value seems to be lost over every single head”

:slight_smile:

You do know that steroids have a psychological effect on people, also, right? They do more than JUST build muscle.

Hormones in general have a profound effect on the mind. Both good and bad.[/quote]but now we are talking medicinal vs. inch on bicep. Totally different topic. And cocaine opens the mind to heaven.

82

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]imhungry wrote:
HG, I have to ask you what’s considered a “moderate” use of coke…

Gram or two a week? [/quote]
More like a few bumps every few weekends. A weekend binge with soon to be found out dog fucking, heavily tatted, porn star bodied, Misfit loving bitches would be a couple grams. Doesn’t happen often. Why?[/quote]

Awesome memories :slight_smile:

Just curious. With most of the people i’ve known and been around, it was either binging every few weeks or addicted. There wasn’t any in-between.

Personally, I was more of a fan of meth than coke.

83

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]imhungry wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]imhungry wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]DeltaOne wrote:
If it was up to me every men women and teenager over 21 would be taking a daily dose of test. Okay, maybe not women, because I like them when they look like women.

What boils me up in these discussions are people saying “you don’t need steroids”. Sure you don’t need it, you don’t need to smoke pot either, but a shitload of people do it simply to get high, you also don’t need to do coke, but people do it. Drinking ? Buying a BMW ? Being Batman ? Drinking water ? Having sex ? Nope, don’t need to do it.

So don’t use the “you don’t need to, unless” argument people, please. People are free to do whatever they want to do, there are consequences, but there shouldn’t be a point to everything.[/quote]
risk vs. value seems to be lost over every single head.

As a general comment, there is no bashing going on. No knee jerk reactions necessary.[/quote]

No, I understand the risk vs reward statement.

Most guys who take test feel pretty fucking good most of the time. Especially, the older crowd.

Do you know the health benefits of test?

What are the benefits of coke? How long does the wonderful feeling last?

Which one actually adds to the quality of life?[/quote]
That snark was not for you. You know I would marry you. If we are discussing medicinal use now I agree with you. Have since my first post in the thread. It was my understanding we were discussing illicit use to push gains for a literally empty value.[/quote]
“risk vs. value seems to be lost over every single head”

:slight_smile:

You do know that steroids have a psychological effect on people, also, right? They do more than JUST build muscle.

Hormones in general have a profound effect on the mind. Both good and bad.[/quote]but now we are talking medicinal vs. inch on bicep. Totally different topic. And cocaine opens the mind to heaven.
[/quote]
Ah, but you’ve never done steroids, have you?

I see you’re biased.

Anyway, i’m done my little button-pushing for the night :slight_smile: Gotta wrap things up at work, so I can get home at a decent time… Later.

84

[quote]imhungry wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]imhungry wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]imhungry wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]DeltaOne wrote:
If it was up to me every men women and teenager over 21 would be taking a daily dose of test. Okay, maybe not women, because I like them when they look like women.

What boils me up in these discussions are people saying “you don’t need steroids”. Sure you don’t need it, you don’t need to smoke pot either, but a shitload of people do it simply to get high, you also don’t need to do coke, but people do it. Drinking ? Buying a BMW ? Being Batman ? Drinking water ? Having sex ? Nope, don’t need to do it.

So don’t use the “you don’t need to, unless” argument people, please. People are free to do whatever they want to do, there are consequences, but there shouldn’t be a point to everything.[/quote]
risk vs. value seems to be lost over every single head.

As a general comment, there is no bashing going on. No knee jerk reactions necessary.[/quote]

No, I understand the risk vs reward statement.

Most guys who take test feel pretty fucking good most of the time. Especially, the older crowd.

Do you know the health benefits of test?

What are the benefits of coke? How long does the wonderful feeling last?

Which one actually adds to the quality of life?[/quote]
That snark was not for you. You know I would marry you. If we are discussing medicinal use now I agree with you. Have since my first post in the thread. It was my understanding we were discussing illicit use to push gains for a literally empty value.[/quote]
“risk vs. value seems to be lost over every single head”

:slight_smile:

You do know that steroids have a psychological effect on people, also, right? They do more than JUST build muscle.

Hormones in general have a profound effect on the mind. Both good and bad.[/quote]but now we are talking medicinal vs. inch on bicep. Totally different topic. And cocaine opens the mind to heaven.
[/quote]
Ah, but you’ve never done steroids, have you?

I see you’re biased.

Anyway, i’m done my little button-pushing for the night :slight_smile: Gotta wrap things up at work, so I can get home at a decent time… Later.[/quote]peace.

85

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

It was my understanding we were discussing illicit use to push gains for a literally empty value.[/quote]

I think this is why you and teh other side are never going to see eye to eye, and this topic could and would go on forever.

Without monetary gain you see it as “empty value”, the other side, myself included, see another inch on my arms or 75lbs on my pull as a pretty awesome value.

I don’t, and very doubtfully will, ever make money from lifting, but if I could take a pill that would put 100lbs on my squat tomorrow I would, and I would take it again in 6 months. Even though that 100lbs “does nothing” for me in other people’s view, it sure as shit means a lot to me.

Maybe I’m misunderstanding what you are trying to say, but what I’m trying to say is, it isn’t an empty value to those that do it. And without accepting that fact, this whole debate is pointless, lol. Because both sides will just always say the same thing:

"It isn’t worth it’
“yeah it is”
“why?”
“because”
“It isn’t worth it”
“Yeah it is”
“why?”
“Because”

So when it comes to risk v reward, people who want this get as much if not more value from gear as you do from your coke… I find doing coke to have zero value for the risk, and irrelevant of the high, it will never be worth it, even if legal. But if it weren’t for my family (because everyone at work thinks I’m on anyway) I would use gear, legal or not.

86

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

It was my understanding we were discussing illicit use to push gains for a literally empty value.[/quote]

I think this is why you and teh other side are never going to see eye to eye, and this topic could and would go on forever.

Without monetary gain you see it as “empty value”, the other side, myself included, see another inch on my arms or 75lbs on my pull as a pretty awesome value.

I don’t, and very doubtfully will, ever make money from lifting, but if I could take a pill that would put 100lbs on my squat tomorrow I would, and I would take it again in 6 months. Even though that 100lbs “does nothing” for me in other people’s view, it sure as shit means a lot to me.

Maybe I’m misunderstanding what you are trying to say, but what I’m trying to say is, it isn’t an empty value to those that do it. And without accepting that fact, this whole debate is pointless, lol. Because both sides will just always say the same thing:

"It isn’t worth it’
“yeah it is”
“why?”
“because”
“It isn’t worth it”
“Yeah it is”
“why?”
“Because”

So when it comes to risk v reward, people who want this get as much if not more value from gear as you do from your coke… I find doing coke to have zero value for the risk, and irrelevant of the high, it will never be worth it, even if legal. But if it weren’t for my family (because everyone at work thinks I’m on anyway) I would use gear, legal or not.[/quote]
And of course it does boil down to individual perceptions of risk vs. reward. /thread but that’s just not fun. I like reading other perspectives and discussing.

87

lol, fair enough

88

Coke = higher risk.

Employers are 1000% more likely to drug screen for coke over screening for any type of steroids in most types of work place drug testing (they may be level in pro sports).

Also, law enforcement is likely check for coke if under suspecion of driving under the influence and I am not aware of any reason that steroids would be included in a DUI screen.

89

[quote]waldo21212 wrote:
Coke = higher risk.

Employers are 1000% more likely to drug screen for coke over screening for any type of steroids in most types of work place drug testing (they may be level in pro sports).

Also, law enforcement is likely check for coke if under suspecion of driving under the influence and I am not aware of any reason that steroids would be included in a DUI screen.[/quote]
There is no universal risk determination. I am my employer and I will never fire myself. Both drugs carry jail time, let’s be serious.

90

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
I will debate my way out of a black hole though. Below board or above. [/quote]

lol

You so cute HG.

muah!

91

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]waldo21212 wrote:
Coke = higher risk.

Employers are 1000% more likely to drug screen for coke over screening for any type of steroids in most types of work place drug testing (they may be level in pro sports).

Also, law enforcement is likely check for coke if under suspecion of driving under the influence and I am not aware of any reason that steroids would be included in a DUI screen.[/quote]
There is no universal risk determination. I am my employer and I will never fire myself. Both drugs carry jail time, let’s be serious.[/quote]

I agree there is risk with both, the point I was trying to make was that, at least to my knowledge, the risk of getting in trouble for steroids really only involves possesion. I have not heard of anyone being arrested for merely having steroids in their system. Whereas with coke, there is the possesion risk and also the risk of being caught with it in your system.

92

[quote]imhungry wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]imhungry wrote:
HG, I have to ask you what’s considered a “moderate” use of coke…

Gram or two a week? [/quote]
More like a few bumps every few weekends. A weekend binge with soon to be found out dog fucking, heavily tatted, porn star bodied, Misfit loving bitches would be a couple grams. Doesn’t happen often. Why?[/quote]

Awesome memories :slight_smile:

Just curious. With most of the people i’ve known and been around, it was either binging every few weeks or addicted. There wasn’t any in-between.

Personally, I was more of a fan of meth than coke.[/quote]
Never did the meth thing. Occassionally I hang out at a bar some bikers come to and they love that shit. Mostly weed and occassional coke. Just a bump here and there though, like maybe out at a bar/club/party and a “key” bump to stay “even”. Not often though maybe a couple times a month. And on the boat. Some of my friends still like to party pretty hard (is it scary that these days they are running crews of oilfield engineers on rigs, in law school and finishing up med school in one case?) We bring a party out there. A few times we hired some strippers for the day too and not many fish were caught.

I tried exctasy once. Was a lot of fun but the next day I was indescribably sad, depressed even. My friend Sean and I called each other (his first and last time too) and cried about how sad we were as we checked to see if they other was feeling the same. It was very weird and later momentarily awkward. Took a few days to actually feel “right” Reward < Risk.

I really don’t even smoke pot all that often any more either. I’m getting old, IH.

Back to thread guys SORRY, SORRY, SO SORRY!!! jk, who cares.

93

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]imhungry wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]imhungry wrote:
HG, I have to ask you what’s considered a “moderate” use of coke…

Gram or two a week? [/quote]
More like a few bumps every few weekends. A weekend binge with soon to be found out dog fucking, heavily tatted, porn star bodied, Misfit loving bitches would be a couple grams. Doesn’t happen often. Why?[/quote]

Awesome memories :slight_smile:

Just curious. With most of the people i’ve known and been around, it was either binging every few weeks or addicted. There wasn’t any in-between.

Personally, I was more of a fan of meth than coke.[/quote]
Never did the meth thing. Occassionally I hang out at a bar some bikers come to and they love that shit. Mostly weed and occassional coke. Just a bump here and there though, like maybe out at a bar/club/party and a “key” bump to stay “even”. Not often though maybe a couple times a month. And on the boat. Some of my friends still like to party pretty hard (is it scary that these days they are running crews of oilfield engineers on rigs, in law school and finishing up med school in one case?) We bring a party out there. A few times we hired some strippers for the day too and not many fish were caught.

I tried exctasy once. Was a lot of fun but the next day I was indescribably sad, depressed even. My friend Sean and I called each other (his first and last time too) and cried about how sad we were as we checked to see if they other was feeling the same. It was very weird and later momentarily awkward. Took a few days to actually feel “right” Reward < Risk.

I really don’t even smoke pot all that often any more either. I’m getting old, IH.

Back to thread guys SORRY, SORRY, SO SORRY!!! jk, who cares.

[/quote]

Hehe, XTC… good memories, and the “sad” feeling comes from the serotonin depletion.

94

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]imhungry wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]imhungry wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]imhungry wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

I suppose ultimately it depends on the value placed on muscle size and strength. I personally just find it silly that some one would be so vain, not an attack, that they would honestly risk wrecking their bodies to get a few more inches or 50 more lbs. when their efforts don’t take them anywhere other than in front of their own mirror. It’s not like they have to be the biggest man on the line, have the best bicep peak to win a sponsorship et cetera. [/quote]

You also don’t need the biggest house, the flashiest car, or the latest outfit. These are vanities…but these are vanities that people partake in daily and glorify.

The attention to bodybuilding as if that is more shallow than spending money on shiny rims makes no sense at all.

Vain? yes. What the hell is wrong with that?

No offense, but someone could make that argument about any of us who have built ourselves to any point that would be considered extreme whether they used steroids or not. I don’t NEED 20" arms to do my job.

Luckily my job does not define me.

Your stance is one of those who has never been all that big and never actually lived the lifestyle.

I LOVE making changes in my physique and weight lifting. It is something I am passionate about. I wouldn’t expect a normal person to understand why I’m still working on muscle mass. They thought I was big 2 years after I started.

Now, I know you are aiming that st steroid users, but again, most of the risks you probably think you know about are likely not completely true…and many of these top pros do go to doctors regularly…so what is the issue?

Bodybuilders…the guys who are the real gym rats…are not normal and never have been.

They also usually don’t want to be.[/quote]
I hear what you are saying but it still boils down to risk vs. reward, I would lump bodybuilders in the category that steroid use can manifest an outcome with meaning in competition. We don’t disagree.[/quote]

Do you drink, smoke, or do recreational drugs such as coke?

I’d say the risk vs reward is significantly higher for those who do these, than for the average steroid user.

[/quote]I would say let’s place qualifiable values on rewards. Listen, I’m not bashing. To each his own value. Just keep that in mind and I’m happy to have a real debate.
[/quote]
Ok. Fine.

I like apples.[/quote]
Cocaine high vs. extra inch on arms = debateable reward value.

Metered hit vs. injecting thousands of times more testosterone than natural in your body with no labwork, no monitered bio-feedback loops (correct terminology?) and no way to meet potential side effects head on until they are happening = greater safety for cocaine.[/quote]

Are you talking use or abuse, HG? Because i’m just speaking of the average user of either.

The average test cycle wouldn’t typically have very many side effects and the ones that do pop up, are generally mild.

How many people have died from a test overdose?

[/quote]
If we are discussing moderate use, how many people have died from a cocaine overdose?

Worst case a nose bleed in moderation.

Steroids, who knows. Nobody, if not doctor administered and monitored. And that is the problem. Each individual has a slightly different physiology and what may be just fine for one can absolutely cause bitch tits and baldness for another, even in moderation.

Actual medical folk feel free to weigh in.

Balls to the wall use both are horrible but the cocaine will be more fun for sure.
[/quote]

Cocaine overdose = a ton, I have taken care of 22 year olds with Heart Attacks from Cocaine.

Test Overdose = serious gyno, acne, and itty bitty balls

We use cocaine in the medical field in hospitals, liquid cocaine is used to vasoconstrict the blood vessels, however it is not prescribed for someone for home use.

Test is prescribed for home use, because it has been deemed safe enough to be set home.

95

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]imhungry wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]imhungry wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]imhungry wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

I suppose ultimately it depends on the value placed on muscle size and strength. I personally just find it silly that some one would be so vain, not an attack, that they would honestly risk wrecking their bodies to get a few more inches or 50 more lbs. when their efforts don’t take them anywhere other than in front of their own mirror. It’s not like they have to be the biggest man on the line, have the best bicep peak to win a sponsorship et cetera. [/quote]

You also don’t need the biggest house, the flashiest car, or the latest outfit. These are vanities…but these are vanities that people partake in daily and glorify.

The attention to bodybuilding as if that is more shallow than spending money on shiny rims makes no sense at all.

Vain? yes. What the hell is wrong with that?

No offense, but someone could make that argument about any of us who have built ourselves to any point that would be considered extreme whether they used steroids or not. I don’t NEED 20" arms to do my job.

Luckily my job does not define me.

Your stance is one of those who has never been all that big and never actually lived the lifestyle.

I LOVE making changes in my physique and weight lifting. It is something I am passionate about. I wouldn’t expect a normal person to understand why I’m still working on muscle mass. They thought I was big 2 years after I started.

Now, I know you are aiming that st steroid users, but again, most of the risks you probably think you know about are likely not completely true…and many of these top pros do go to doctors regularly…so what is the issue?

Bodybuilders…the guys who are the real gym rats…are not normal and never have been.

They also usually don’t want to be.[/quote]
I hear what you are saying but it still boils down to risk vs. reward, I would lump bodybuilders in the category that steroid use can manifest an outcome with meaning in competition. We don’t disagree.[/quote]

Do you drink, smoke, or do recreational drugs such as coke?

I’d say the risk vs reward is significantly higher for those who do these, than for the average steroid user.

[/quote]I would say let’s place qualifiable values on rewards. Listen, I’m not bashing. To each his own value. Just keep that in mind and I’m happy to have a real debate.
[/quote]
Ok. Fine.

I like apples.[/quote]
Cocaine high vs. extra inch on arms = debateable reward value.

Metered hit vs. injecting thousands of times more testosterone than natural in your body with no labwork, no monitered bio-feedback loops (correct terminology?) and no way to meet potential side effects head on until they are happening = greater safety for cocaine.[/quote]

Are you talking use or abuse, HG? Because i’m just speaking of the average user of either.

The average test cycle wouldn’t typically have very many side effects and the ones that do pop up, are generally mild.

How many people have died from a test overdose?

[/quote]
If we are discussing moderate use, how many people have died from a cocaine overdose?

Worst case a nose bleed in moderation.

Steroids, who knows. Nobody, if not doctor administered and monitored. And that is the problem. Each individual has a slightly different physiology and what may be just fine for one can absolutely cause bitch tits and baldness for another, even in moderation.

Actual medical folk feel free to weigh in.

Balls to the wall use both are horrible but the cocaine will be more fun for sure.
[/quote]

Cocaine overdose = a ton, I have taken care of 22 year olds with Heart Attacks from Cocaine.

Test Overdose = serious gyno, acne, and itty bitty balls

We use cocaine in the medical field in hospitals, liquid cocaine is used to vasoconstrict the blood vessels, however it is not prescribed for someone for home use.

Test is prescribed for home use, because it has been deemed safe enough to be set home.[/quote]

I am a little amazed at the risk of acne being compared to the risk of instant heart attack and death from cocaine.

Seriously, for anyone to hold that stance, it means you know so little about the subject you should just keep quiet.

96

wait…

does anyone actually have a view on his theory about steroids?

97

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]imhungry wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]imhungry wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]imhungry wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

I suppose ultimately it depends on the value placed on muscle size and strength. I personally just find it silly that some one would be so vain, not an attack, that they would honestly risk wrecking their bodies to get a few more inches or 50 more lbs. when their efforts don’t take them anywhere other than in front of their own mirror. It’s not like they have to be the biggest man on the line, have the best bicep peak to win a sponsorship et cetera. [/quote]

You also don’t need the biggest house, the flashiest car, or the latest outfit. These are vanities…but these are vanities that people partake in daily and glorify.

The attention to bodybuilding as if that is more shallow than spending money on shiny rims makes no sense at all.

Vain? yes. What the hell is wrong with that?

No offense, but someone could make that argument about any of us who have built ourselves to any point that would be considered extreme whether they used steroids or not. I don’t NEED 20" arms to do my job.

Luckily my job does not define me.

Your stance is one of those who has never been all that big and never actually lived the lifestyle.

I LOVE making changes in my physique and weight lifting. It is something I am passionate about. I wouldn’t expect a normal person to understand why I’m still working on muscle mass. They thought I was big 2 years after I started.

Now, I know you are aiming that st steroid users, but again, most of the risks you probably think you know about are likely not completely true…and many of these top pros do go to doctors regularly…so what is the issue?

Bodybuilders…the guys who are the real gym rats…are not normal and never have been.

They also usually don’t want to be.[/quote]
I hear what you are saying but it still boils down to risk vs. reward, I would lump bodybuilders in the category that steroid use can manifest an outcome with meaning in competition. We don’t disagree.[/quote]

Do you drink, smoke, or do recreational drugs such as coke?

I’d say the risk vs reward is significantly higher for those who do these, than for the average steroid user.

[/quote]I would say let’s place qualifiable values on rewards. Listen, I’m not bashing. To each his own value. Just keep that in mind and I’m happy to have a real debate.
[/quote]
Ok. Fine.

I like apples.[/quote]
Cocaine high vs. extra inch on arms = debateable reward value.

Metered hit vs. injecting thousands of times more testosterone than natural in your body with no labwork, no monitered bio-feedback loops (correct terminology?) and no way to meet potential side effects head on until they are happening = greater safety for cocaine.[/quote]

Are you talking use or abuse, HG? Because i’m just speaking of the average user of either.

The average test cycle wouldn’t typically have very many side effects and the ones that do pop up, are generally mild.

How many people have died from a test overdose?

[/quote]
If we are discussing moderate use, how many people have died from a cocaine overdose?

Worst case a nose bleed in moderation.

Steroids, who knows. Nobody, if not doctor administered and monitored. And that is the problem. Each individual has a slightly different physiology and what may be just fine for one can absolutely cause bitch tits and baldness for another, even in moderation.

Actual medical folk feel free to weigh in.

Balls to the wall use both are horrible but the cocaine will be more fun for sure.
[/quote]

Cocaine overdose = a ton, I have taken care of 22 year olds with Heart Attacks from Cocaine.

Test Overdose = serious gyno, acne, and itty bitty balls

We use cocaine in the medical field in hospitals, liquid cocaine is used to vasoconstrict the blood vessels, however it is not prescribed for someone for home use.

Test is prescribed for home use, because it has been deemed safe enough to be set home.[/quote]

I am a little amazed at the risk of acne being compared to the risk of instant heart attack and death from cocaine.

Seriously, for anyone to hold that stance, it means you know so little about the subject you should just keep quiet.[/quote]

Unfortunately, “Ignore” doesn’t block quoted material.

98

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]imhungry wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]imhungry wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]imhungry wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

I suppose ultimately it depends on the value placed on muscle size and strength. I personally just find it silly that some one would be so vain, not an attack, that they would honestly risk wrecking their bodies to get a few more inches or 50 more lbs. when their efforts don’t take them anywhere other than in front of their own mirror. It’s not like they have to be the biggest man on the line, have the best bicep peak to win a sponsorship et cetera. [/quote]

You also don’t need the biggest house, the flashiest car, or the latest outfit. These are vanities…but these are vanities that people partake in daily and glorify.

The attention to bodybuilding as if that is more shallow than spending money on shiny rims makes no sense at all.

Vain? yes. What the hell is wrong with that?

No offense, but someone could make that argument about any of us who have built ourselves to any point that would be considered extreme whether they used steroids or not. I don’t NEED 20" arms to do my job.

Luckily my job does not define me.

Your stance is one of those who has never been all that big and never actually lived the lifestyle.

I LOVE making changes in my physique and weight lifting. It is something I am passionate about. I wouldn’t expect a normal person to understand why I’m still working on muscle mass. They thought I was big 2 years after I started.

Now, I know you are aiming that st steroid users, but again, most of the risks you probably think you know about are likely not completely true…and many of these top pros do go to doctors regularly…so what is the issue?

Bodybuilders…the guys who are the real gym rats…are not normal and never have been.

They also usually don’t want to be.[/quote]
I hear what you are saying but it still boils down to risk vs. reward, I would lump bodybuilders in the category that steroid use can manifest an outcome with meaning in competition. We don’t disagree.[/quote]

Do you drink, smoke, or do recreational drugs such as coke?

I’d say the risk vs reward is significantly higher for those who do these, than for the average steroid user.

[/quote]I would say let’s place qualifiable values on rewards. Listen, I’m not bashing. To each his own value. Just keep that in mind and I’m happy to have a real debate.
[/quote]
Ok. Fine.

I like apples.[/quote]
Cocaine high vs. extra inch on arms = debateable reward value.

Metered hit vs. injecting thousands of times more testosterone than natural in your body with no labwork, no monitered bio-feedback loops (correct terminology?) and no way to meet potential side effects head on until they are happening = greater safety for cocaine.[/quote]

Are you talking use or abuse, HG? Because i’m just speaking of the average user of either.

The average test cycle wouldn’t typically have very many side effects and the ones that do pop up, are generally mild.

How many people have died from a test overdose?

[/quote]
If we are discussing moderate use, how many people have died from a cocaine overdose?

Worst case a nose bleed in moderation.

Steroids, who knows. Nobody, if not doctor administered and monitored. And that is the problem. Each individual has a slightly different physiology and what may be just fine for one can absolutely cause bitch tits and baldness for another, even in moderation.

Actual medical folk feel free to weigh in.

Balls to the wall use both are horrible but the cocaine will be more fun for sure.
[/quote]

Cocaine overdose = a ton, I have taken care of 22 year olds with Heart Attacks from Cocaine.

Test Overdose = serious gyno, acne, and itty bitty balls

We use cocaine in the medical field in hospitals, liquid cocaine is used to vasoconstrict the blood vessels, however it is not prescribed for someone for home use.

Test is prescribed for home use, because it has been deemed safe enough to be set home.[/quote]

I am a little amazed at the risk of acne being compared to the risk of instant heart attack and death from cocaine.

Seriously, for anyone to hold that stance, it means you know so little about the subject you should just keep quiet.[/quote]

Unfortunately, “Ignore” doesn’t block quoted material.
[/quote]

Nope sorry Steely forgot to tell you that.

99

Some of you have talked about doing “some cycles”. Wouldn’t you end losing the benefit, in this case, mass and strength, over time?

100

I view it a lot as “bang for the buck”

I have limited financial resources, and would like to get the most that I can for what I spend.

For example, a lot of people “tune” their import cars for performance, working hard to get 10-15 more horsepower from the stock engine.

I would rather just do the equivalent to this…