Thib's Q&A - Up to the End of May

q99q · May 22, 2009, 8:21pm

Coach,

Yesterday I was playing around in the gym at the end of my leg training session and experimented with 1-leg RDL’s with a slightly unevenly-loaded barbell (more weight on the side of the working leg). I noticed a greatly increased effort from the hip rotators and obliques. Do you see traditional movements performed unilaterally/with some form of offset loading as having value due to the extra emphasis placed on torso stability and hip/pelvic stability? Or is this simply trying to get a bit too “cute” with things? If you see value in this, would this type of training fit best after completing heavy/heavier bilateral work for the primary muscles?

Slay_the_Dragon · May 23, 2009, 2:13am

Hey coach, I just recently started following this site again and I’m hearing a lot of talk about your “Get Jacked Fast” program. I’ve been looking around and still can’t find it. Where can I get my hands on a copy?

PB_Andy · May 23, 2009, 3:32am

[quote]Slay the Dragon wrote:
Hey coach, I just recently started following this site again and I’m hearing a lot of talk about your “Get Jacked Fast” program. I’ve been looking around and still can’t find it. Where can I get my hands on a copy?[/quote]

http://www.muscledrivethru.com/

2nd one down.

danchubb · May 23, 2009, 6:59am

CT/DH etc. Blackout has been addressed with the BCAAs/EAAs, but habituation - what are general reccomendations for this? Does one drop protein in a day? How often would one do this? In essence, how does one avoid it in the real world.

Jas0n · May 23, 2009, 7:29am

CT, thank you so much for the effort you put into your insightful replys, learned quite a bit from reading the Q&A with you.

Recently I’ve been diagnosed with having substantially low levels of testosterone. I am in my early 20s and wouldn’t have thought that this is the case. I don’t seem to have much trouble packing on mass however I am, relatively, a beginner. My question is: How much of a role does diet play on one’s testosterone levels? Been dieting for while now using PWO carbs only, high fat high protein approach (4-5 months). Could this explain the plunge in testosterone whatsoever? Sex drive isn’t lacking either. Are there any symptoms I could look for?

This was really quite a scare to me. I thank you in advance!

cally · May 23, 2009, 12:22pm

[quote]DH wrote:
Get 5 meals.

7am meal
9am AA
11am meal
1pm AA
3pm meal
5pm AA
7pm meal
9pm meal (casein)

that would work fine. Use about 30g whey (to get about 3g leucine) at the AA spots. take it by itself OR with a small amount of CHO depending on your diet and bodyfat levels. We are speculating on whey use here but I think it will prove useful. It usually drops in the bloodstream after about 2 hours or so. Once you get the drop THEN you can trigger the spike for another 2 hours or so. See how the pattern works?

Best,
DH

Needmassquick wrote:
DH wrote:
Solid food will keep you from going below baseline. It will act not only in an anabolic fashion but also an anti-catablic one. Then when the amino levels are decreasing back to baseline you “jab” some protein in and trigger PS. During this time, the solid food from your meals is still preventing protelysis.

With this approach you maximize anabolism via protein synthesis and protect yourself from protein breakdown from the longer term effects from the meals. We are getting anabolism and anti-catabolism at the same time. Then at night eat casein to get a single PS increase for about 2 hours during sleep and then for as much as 6-7 hours you will prevent proteolysis (breakdown). This gives you a VERY potent approach to maximizing growth and minimizing breakdown.

Best,
DH

Ok so with this method you would have only about 4 meals a day + BCAA’s? In Berardi’s “Get Shredded Diet” he suggests 4 meals per day so could this be applied here?

As for the whey being used, how would you go about placing it during the day in terms of __ grams every __ hours

[/quote]

DH,

This is interesting stuff. You should have your own locker room as this is likely something many are interested in and you seem to have both educational and personal experience in this protocol.

Italiano · May 23, 2009, 1:42pm

[quote]DH wrote:
Get 5 meals.

7am meal
9am AA
11am meal
1pm AA
3pm meal
5pm AA
7pm meal
9pm meal (casein)

[/quote]

During the AA times, are you suggesting 8-10g bcaa’s + an additional 4-5g leucine? Is there any benefits to adding in a serving of casein hydrolysate or whey hydrolysate or even whey isolate along with the AA?

Thanks, interesting stuff!

jk270 · May 23, 2009, 2:15pm

Coach, just wondering if you have suffered from many injuries over the years? Also, when would you place any remedial/pre-had/rehab work into a programme, during the warm-up (so remedial shoulder work before upper body days) or in a specific ‘remedial’ session? Thanks.

Christian_Thibaudeau · May 23, 2009, 10:03pm

REGARDING ALL THE POSTS ABOUT AMINO ACID PULSING

The approach that DH talked about is pretty effective. Yn fact it’s something I presented a few years ago when I talked about the strategy of consuming 5-10g of BCAAs 5 times a day between meals.

However from the current research it is not the optimal approach.

YES pulsing essential amino acids or BCAAs (heck, you could pulse only leucine and it would work) is effective at initiating the protein synthesis mechanism.

HOWEVER since the EAA or BCAAs are not complete protein, protein synthesis (the actual act of building muscle) will be sub-optimal because you will not have a large amount of all the amino acids present in the blood when the protein synthesis mechanism is activated.

YES there is likely a small amount of each of the amino acids still present in the blood from the previous solid meal (which can actually be problematic… for maximum results you want to go from almost no amino acids in the blood to a ton of it real quickly) but not at levels high enough to maximize anabolism.

But the real problem is a lack of insulin release. You can stimulate the protein synthesis processes as much as you want, if you cannot transport the amino acids into the muscle, you will not be able to optimally build muscle tissue.

A better approach is to pulse a complete protein. But one that is fast-absorbed enough to cause a state of hyperaminoacidemia AND release insulin. CASEIN HYDROLYSATE is the fastest absorbed protein, because it is broken into peptides, di-peptides and tri-peptides. Some info even suggest that CH is absorbed faster than free-form amino acids.

Furthermore, CH is insulinogenic, meaning that it stimulates the release of insulin. Because of these two reasons, pulsing with CH would be much more anabolic than using EAA.

Whey hydrolysate can also do the job as it is fast enough to cause a state of hyperaminoacidemia, but the faster the better… so CH will be superior to basically anything you can find.

Christian_Thibaudeau · May 23, 2009, 6:26pm

[quote]Italiano wrote:
DH wrote:
Get 5 meals.

7am meal
9am AA
11am meal
1pm AA
3pm meal
5pm AA
7pm meal
9pm meal (casein)

During the AA times, are you suggesting 8-10g bcaa’s + an additional 4-5g leucine? Is there any benefits to adding in a serving of casein hydrolysate or whey hydrolysate or even whey isolate along with the AA?

Thanks, interesting stuff![/quote]

BTW, although the approach above is ‘‘okay’’, and it is the one I used a few years back, it is not optimal.

It looks good on paper, but it suffers from two problems:

Protein blackout… solide protein sources normally take more than 2 hours to fully digest. Actually some meat are not fully digested until 6-8 hours later.

This creates a constant trickle of amino acid into the bloodstream, the amplitude of which is very low. In other words you always have some aminos entering the blood but never a level high enough to stimulate hyperaminocidemia.

The problem is that, contrary to what is generally believed, to maximize growth WE DO NOT WANT A CONSTANT TRICKLE OF AMINO ACIDS. This actually lead to protein oxydation and a DECREASE in protein synthesis! YES, you breakdown less muscle tissue, BUT you elevate the enzymes responsible for oxydizing (wasting) amino acids. So although you are breaking down less tissuem you are also building less tissue.

In some situations you WANT that to happen (before bedtime to avoid catabolism during the night’s fast) but if you want to build as much muscle as possible you actually want periods where there is roughly no amino acids in the blood followed by quick surges in amino acids. For maximum results both need to happen. And the more often you go from super low to super high, the more muscle you’ll build.

If you have too many solid protein, especially of the kind that is slowly digested and absorbed, you will reduce you potential muscle growth.

HOWEVER solid protein sources have the upper hand when dieting down because it will prevent muscle breakdown/loss. As a reminder, constant blood aminos = less muscle being built and less muscle being broken down… amino acid peaks and valleys = more muscle being built and potentially more muscle being broken down (this is why we also need periods where solid food is ingested).

The approach I recommend is:

PARA-WORKOUT (this is KEY): we want a peak right before and right after training. So super fast absorbed protein like casein or whey hydrolysate is needed. If you are not dieting down, some fast-absorbed carbs will enhance the effect by stimulating the release of insulin.
1 hour after your workout: you want a second amino peak/surge to maximize the anabolic response to training. So again, casein or whey hydrolysate.
Immediately upon waking up: you want an amino peak/surge to quickly reverse the body’s state from catabolism to anabolism. You should actually take you casein or whey hydrolysate alone (no solid food) when you wake up, or with some carbs (if you are not dieting down). If you are on a low-carbs diet, wait 20-30minutes after your shake to have your breakfast.

These are your main pulse/surge times. Depending on when you train you might have time for another surge during the day.

Before bed you want solid protein that is slowly absorbed to have a constant trickle of aminos during the night. YES casein MICELLAR might be slow enough, but solid food is the number one choice here.
You can have another solid protein meal for lunch PROVIDED THAT YOUR TRAINING SESSION IS AT LEAST 3-4 HOURS AWAY.

NOTE that solid meals being constituted of rapidly absorbed protein sources like pork tenderloins and egg whites will have a lesser negative impact; they are not as likely to cause protein oxydation.

mrwhatwhat · May 23, 2009, 6:52pm

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
The approach I recommend is:

PARA-WORKOUT (this is KEY): we want a peak right before and right after training. So super fast absorbed protein like casein or whey hydrolysate is needed. If you are not dieting down, some fast-absorbed carbs will enhance the effect by stimulating the release of insulin.
1 hour after your workout: you want a second amino peak/surge to maximize the anabolic response to training. So again, casein or whey hydrolysate.
Immediately upon waking up: you want an amino peak/surge to quickly reverse the body’s state from catabolism to anabolism. You should actually take you casein or whey hydrolysate alone (no solid food) when you wake up, or with some carbs (if you are not dieting down). If you are on a low-carbs diet, wait 20-30minutes after your shake to have your breakfast.

These are your main pulse/surge times. Depending on when you train you might have time for another surge during the day.

Before bed you want solid protein that is slowly absorbed to have a constant trickle of aminos during the night. YES casein MICELLAR might be slow enough, but solid food is the number one choice here.
You can have another solid protein meal for lunch PROVIDED THAT YOUR TRAINING SESSION IS AT LEAST 3-4 HOURS AWAY.

NOTE that solid meals being constituted of rapidly absorbed protein sources like pork tenderloins and egg whites will have a lesser negative impact; they are not as likely to cause protein oxydation.[/quote]

So to summarize, if you’re gaining weight:

Wake up = Protein + carb shake for fast carbs/insulin spike then do my workout (1 hour later)
For immediately post-workout, you take nothing, but wait 1 hour and take protein + carbs shake for amino/insulin surge. Do you have a solid meal 1-2 hours after this shake?
Solid protein before bedtime to prevent catabolism

BlakedaMan · May 23, 2009, 6:59pm

Very interesting stuff here.
CT,
Would you recommend this approach for ALL people who want maximal growth, or just for more advanced lifters who’ve been in the game for a while and find themselves stalling? Basically, do you think this is necessary if we’re making gains using the old approach, or would it be best to use anyways for even better gains?

Thanks,
BT

daffyduck · May 23, 2009, 9:05pm

Wow, this is really interesting. I’ve been eating at least 1.5 grams of protein for at least 4 yrs. What would a sample day of this look like if one weighed 170lbs. And how long should one do this and how often should one do this strategy.

FERCHCORE · May 23, 2009, 9:42pm

CT-- So, where would Surge WorkOut Fuel and Surge Recovery fit into this plan? Since work-out fuel contains no protein.

Christian_Thibaudeau · May 23, 2009, 9:48pm

[quote]FERCHCORE wrote:
CT-- So, where would Surge WorkOut Fuel and Surge Recovery fit into this plan? Since work-out fuel contains no protein.[/quote]

Workout fuel does contain aminos, leucine being the most interesting in this case since it directly activate protein synthesis.

My protocol is as follow:

60 minutes before workout = 0.2g of BCAAs per pound

30 minutes before workout = 1 (or 2 if the volume is very high) scoop Workout fuel

During the workout = Anaconda (hopefully available soon) which does contain casein hydrolysate among other ingredients, 2-3 scoops depending on volume

Post-workout: Surge recovery 2 scoops if during a mass gaining phase, 1 scoop if during a fat loss phase

60 minutes post-workout: Anaconda 1 scoop or 20g casein hydrolysate… poor man’s version would be 1 scoop of Surge Recovery, but only if you are on a mass gaining phase… poor poor man’t version would be whey protein at 1 or 2 scoops.

Christian_Thibaudeau · May 23, 2009, 9:58pm

[quote]daffyduck wrote:
Wow, this is really interesting. I’ve been eating at least 1.5 grams of protein for at least 4 yrs. What would a sample day of this look like if one weighed 170lbs. And how long should one do this and how often should one do this strategy.[/quote]

*** I know that you are at less than 10% body fat (since I measured you myself) and that you want to gain size… so:

PRE-BREAKFAST
20g of casein hydrolysate
5g leucine

BREAKFAST (20-30 minutes later)
8-10 egg whites
200g berries

SNACK (3 hours after breakfast)
20g of casein hydrolysate OR 30g of whey hydrolysate
5g leucine

LUNCH (90-120 minutes after snack)
200g pork tenderloin or 10 egg whites
1 cup rice or 1 potatoe

SNACK (3 hours after snack)
20g of casein hydrolysate OR 30g of whey hydrolysate
5g leucine

DINNER
OPTION 1 (if dinner is at least 2 hours after your workout)
300g red meat
Big salad with olive oil

OPTION 2 (if dinner is prior to your workout… but in that case it has to be at least 2 hours prior)
200g pork tenderloin or 10 egg whites
1 cup rice or 1 potatoe

EVENING SNACK
2 whole eggs
100g cottage cheese or 1 scoop low-carbs Metabolic Drive
Green veggies

To that you tack on the para-workout strategy explained in my prior post.

*NOTE: someone who is LEAN (under 10%), is in a mass-gaining phase, and can’t afford or find casein hydrolysate, can use 1 scoop of SURGE RECOVERY instead of the casein hydrolysate (since SR is whey hydrolysate and some BCAAs plus some carbs).

*NOTE 2: I recommend one low-protein day per week (non-training day) where you only protein (in a signficant amount) during the last two meals of the day (solid food).

Mike19727 · May 23, 2009, 11:52pm

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
FERCHCORE wrote:
CT-- So, where would Surge WorkOut Fuel and Surge Recovery fit into this plan? Since work-out fuel contains no protein.

Workout fuel does contain aminos, leucine being the most interesting in this case since it directly activate protein synthesis.

My protocol is as follow:

60 minutes before workout = 0.2g of BCAAs per pound

30 minutes before workout = 1 (or 2 if the volume is very high) scoop Workout fuel

During the workout = Anaconda (hopefully available soon) which does contain casein hydrolysate among other ingredients, 2-3 scoops depending on volume

Post-workout: Surge recovery 2 scoops if during a mass gaining phase, 1 scoop if during a fat loss phase

60 minutes post-workout: Anaconda 1 scoop or 20g casein hydrolysate… poor man’s version would be 1 scoop of Surge Recovery, but only if you are on a mass gaining phase… poor poor man’t version would be whey protein at 1 or 2 scoops.[/quote]

Thanks for all the great info Thib. By reading your posts for just a few weeks, I’ve learned so much. Would it be possible to use a similar supplement protocol in MMA workouts that last about an hour as well? If so, how? Thanks for your time.

Italiano · May 24, 2009, 12:21am

Thib, I believe a while back you mention Poliquin suggesting meat and nuts for breakfast, b/c you used to think whey isolate first thing to prevent the anti-catabolic effect after sleeping all night or something along those lines.

Now you are suggesting back to the protein option, but at the fastest absorption, such as Casein Hydrolysate and additional carbs depending on diet can be added as well. Should these carbs be dextrose/malto or something such as fruit?
Then 20-30 minutes later, would meat and nuts be optimal?

Also, if you are familiar with it, is pepto-pro the best casein hydrolysate around that some companies have?

Thanks Thibs!

Italiano · May 24, 2009, 12:19am

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
FERCHCORE wrote:
CT-- So, where would Surge WorkOut Fuel and Surge Recovery fit into this plan? Since work-out fuel contains no protein.

Workout fuel does contain aminos, leucine being the most interesting in this case since it directly activate protein synthesis.

My protocol is as follow:

60 minutes before workout = 0.2g of BCAAs per pound

30 minutes before workout = 1 (or 2 if the volume is very high) scoop Workout fuel

During the workout = Anaconda (hopefully available soon) which does contain casein hydrolysate among other ingredients, 2-3 scoops depending on volume

Post-workout: Surge recovery 2 scoops if during a mass gaining phase, 1 scoop if during a fat loss phase

60 minutes post-workout: Anaconda 1 scoop or 20g casein hydrolysate… poor man’s version would be 1 scoop of Surge Recovery, but only if you are on a mass gaining phase… poor poor man’t version would be whey protein at 1 or 2 scoops.[/quote]

Thib, how soon after the 60 minutes post workout shake would the first solid meal be consumed?

Italiano · May 24, 2009, 12:27am

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
daffyduck wrote:
Wow, this is really interesting. I’ve been eating at least 1.5 grams of protein for at least 4 yrs. What would a sample day of this look like if one weighed 170lbs. And how long should one do this and how often should one do this strategy.