Thib, aside from whole food choices, what type of protein or blend of protein supplements do you recommend as the best choice to be taken throughout the day?
Micellar Casein ? Calcium Caseinate ? Milk Protein Isolate ?(which is said to be 20% whey/80% casein)
Thibs,
Since HIITâs epoc is so overly exaggerated, what fat burning techniques would you recommend (assuming the diet is on spot)? Regular cardio+ metabolic pairings?
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Needmassquick wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
tinman15 wrote:
The fat cycling made me think of protein cycling, have you experimented with it and if so what were your results?
Actually I have more experience with protein cycling than fat cycling. Long-story short, I believe that short periods of low protein intake can lead to an increase in protein synthesis muscle growth.
I also found that always consuming a super high protein intake eventually lead to stagnation in growth and even muscle loss.
So how do you go about lowering it and for how long and often?
First Iâll give you more details about âwhyâ I see a need to cycle protein.
Two words: blackout and habituation
Habituation is the phenomenon where you get used to an external influence. When habituated, this influence stops being a stress and it no longer leads to a positive adaptation of the body.
It happens with pretty much everything that goes on in our body.
At first increasing protein intake will lead to an increase in protein synthesis (and protein breakdown as well, but ot a lesser extent) which tends to lead to an increase in muscle mass.
If you stay at that level for a while your body gets used to it and it will regulate itself in such a way that the new protein level stops leading to an increase in protein synthesis. The body does so by increasing protein oxydation and degradation.
At that point youâll need to once again increase your proteinn intake , that will spark some new anabolism, but will shortly lead to havituation once again. And this new, even higher intake become enough to maintain only.
And it goes on and on until you need to ingest an idiotic amount or protein simply to avoid muscle breakdown.
A smarter approach is to periodically include low-protein days which will go a long way in preventing habituation, this way your body stay responsive to a high protein intake.
BLACKOUT means that if your body is constantly receiving a trickle of amino acids all day long (as does happen when you consume protein every 2 hours or so, especially from solid food) protein synthesis also decreases, for the same reason as stated above.
ONE OF THE MOST POWERFUL NUTRITIONAL STRATEGY YOU CAN USE TO STIMULATE MUSCLE GROWTH IS GOING FROM TO A STATE OF AMINO ACID DEPLETION TO A SUDDEN SURGE IN BLOOD AMINO ACIDS.
In other words going from a state where there isnât much amino acids in your blood to a state of hyperaminoacidemia will act as a direct signal to initiation protein synthesis/muscle building. And the faster you go from one another, the more powerful the impact will be.
Those peaks called hyperaminoacidemia are directly proportional to the spead of absorption of a protein. So casein hydrolysate is the most effective followed by whey hydrolysate and regular whey. You want as many of these peaks as possible, while tring to avoid having a constant flux of amino acids throughout most of the day.[/quote]
This is very interesting CT, Thank you for sharing this
In your opinion, what is the best protocol for protein cycling? Are you referring to lowering protein for a span of a day, few days, or a week or more?
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Needmassquick wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
tinman15 wrote:
The fat cycling made me think of protein cycling, have you experimented with it and if so what were your results?
Actually I have more experience with protein cycling than fat cycling. Long-story short, I believe that short periods of low protein intake can lead to an increase in protein synthesis muscle growth.
I also found that always consuming a super high protein intake eventually lead to stagnation in growth and even muscle loss.
So how do you go about lowering it and for how long and often?
First Iâll give you more details about âwhyâ I see a need to cycle protein.
Two words: blackout and habituation
Habituation is the phenomenon where you get used to an external influence. When habituated, this influence stops being a stress and it no longer leads to a positive adaptation of the body.
It happens with pretty much everything that goes on in our body.
At first increasing protein intake will lead to an increase in protein synthesis (and protein breakdown as well, but ot a lesser extent) which tends to lead to an increase in muscle mass.
If you stay at that level for a while your body gets used to it and it will regulate itself in such a way that the new protein level stops leading to an increase in protein synthesis. The body does so by increasing protein oxydation and degradation.
At that point youâll need to once again increase your proteinn intake , that will spark some new anabolism, but will shortly lead to havituation once again. And this new, even higher intake become enough to maintain only.
And it goes on and on until you need to ingest an idiotic amount or protein simply to avoid muscle breakdown.
A smarter approach is to periodically include low-protein days which will go a long way in preventing habituation, this way your body stay responsive to a high protein intake.
BLACKOUT means that if your body is constantly receiving a trickle of amino acids all day long (as does happen when you consume protein every 2 hours or so, especially from solid food) protein synthesis also decreases, for the same reason as stated above.
ONE OF THE MOST POWERFUL NUTRITIONAL STRATEGY YOU CAN USE TO STIMULATE MUSCLE GROWTH IS GOING FROM TO A STATE OF AMINO ACID DEPLETION TO A SUDDEN SURGE IN BLOOD AMINO ACIDS.
In other words going from a state where there isnât much amino acids in your blood to a state of hyperaminoacidemia will act as a direct signal to initiation protein synthesis/muscle building. And the faster you go from one another, the more powerful the impact will be.
Those peaks called hyperaminoacidemia are directly proportional to the spead of absorption of a protein. So casein hydrolysate is the most effective followed by whey hydrolysate and regular whey. You want as many of these peaks as possible, while tring to avoid having a constant flux of amino acids throughout most of the day.[/quote]
Isnât your carb cycling codex though based on stable amounts of protein intake every day? Or does the fact that your cycling carbs change and eating an equal amount of protein per meal(i.e. non fluctuating amounts per meal) effectively stop habituation and catabolism?
How would you introduce a low-protein day into the carb cycling codex plan that you have laid out? Once every 2 weeks?
Spot on, Thib.
Iâve been using a techinque of eating every 4 hours cycle with BCAA in between. I was tyring to set up an improved cyclic approach to the following study by Paddon-Jones et al.
They investigated if combining 30 g of carbohydrate and 15 g of essential amino acids (CAA) altered the metabolic response to a nutritionally mixed meal in healthy, recreationally active male volunteers. Results found that the supplement group experienced 25% greater nitrogen balance than the control group. Further the supplement did not blunt the anabolic response which occurred in a normal meal. These findings suggest that a fast digesting amino acid supplement between meals enhances anabolism throughout the day. These findings also support other studies which indicate that acute increases in protein synthesis are additive in nature to the normal protein synthesis which occurs in a given day
Paddon-Jones D, Sheffield-Moore M, Aarsland A, Wolfe RR, Ferrando AA. Exogenous amino acids stimulate human muscle anabolism without interfering with the response to mixed meal ingestion. Am J Physiol Endocrinology Metab. 2005, 288(4):E761-7.
I use BCAA vs full EAAâs because there should be plenty of substrate left in my system from the meals so as to prevent any rate limiting problems and provide what may be âneededâ by the BCAAâs (particularly leucine) to promote PS.
Iâm 261 lbs and during the weekdays on the AD, Im doing the following with good results:
7am Solid meal 55g Pro, 50g fat
9am 8-10g BCAA (4-5g Leu)
11am Solid meal 55g pro, 40g fat
1pm 8-10g BCAA
etcâŠ
This is an example of an off day. It provides 275 protein, and as I slowly drop my fat grams toward bedtime, about 200g fat. Iâll hit about 40-50g BCAAâs total.
Contrary to what many gurus would suggest, this facilitates gains even at what many would consider an insufficient energy intake for someone my size. Capitalizing on multiple pulses of hyperaminoacidemia coupled with the protein sparing effects of the full meals is a potent way to eat. Iâd also suggest making your last protein meal of the day one that contains at least 20g of casein ( I use 35-40) for the anti-proteolytic benefits.
Best,
DH
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Needmassquick wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
tinman15 wrote:
The fat cycling made me think of protein cycling, have you experimented with it and if so what were your results?
Actually I have more experience with protein cycling than fat cycling. Long-story short, I believe that short periods of low protein intake can lead to an increase in protein synthesis muscle growth.
I also found that always consuming a super high protein intake eventually lead to stagnation in growth and even muscle loss.
So how do you go about lowering it and for how long and often?
First Iâll give you more details about âwhyâ I see a need to cycle protein.
Two words: blackout and habituation
Habituation is the phenomenon where you get used to an external influence. When habituated, this influence stops being a stress and it no longer leads to a positive adaptation of the body.
It happens with pretty much everything that goes on in our body.
At first increasing protein intake will lead to an increase in protein synthesis (and protein breakdown as well, but ot a lesser extent) which tends to lead to an increase in muscle mass.
If you stay at that level for a while your body gets used to it and it will regulate itself in such a way that the new protein level stops leading to an increase in protein synthesis. The body does so by increasing protein oxydation and degradation.
At that point youâll need to once again increase your proteinn intake , that will spark some new anabolism, but will shortly lead to havituation once again. And this new, even higher intake become enough to maintain only.
And it goes on and on until you need to ingest an idiotic amount or protein simply to avoid muscle breakdown.
A smarter approach is to periodically include low-protein days which will go a long way in preventing habituation, this way your body stay responsive to a high protein intake.
BLACKOUT means that if your body is constantly receiving a trickle of amino acids all day long (as does happen when you consume protein every 2 hours or so, especially from solid food) protein synthesis also decreases, for the same reason as stated above.
ONE OF THE MOST POWERFUL NUTRITIONAL STRATEGY YOU CAN USE TO STIMULATE MUSCLE GROWTH IS GOING FROM TO A STATE OF AMINO ACID DEPLETION TO A SUDDEN SURGE IN BLOOD AMINO ACIDS.
In other words going from a state where there isnât much amino acids in your blood to a state of hyperaminoacidemia will act as a direct signal to initiation protein synthesis/muscle building. And the faster you go from one another, the more powerful the impact will be.
Those peaks called hyperaminoacidemia are directly proportional to the spead of absorption of a protein. So casein hydrolysate is the most effective followed by whey hydrolysate and regular whey. You want as many of these peaks as possible, while tring to avoid having a constant flux of amino acids throughout most of the day.[/quote]
Hi coach.
Iâm currently following your Mechanical Drop Sets 12 Week Program and I have a couple of questions regarding the diet outlined in the book:
What adjustments would you suggest to do if a person worked out twice daily? In terms of peri-workout nutrition and in terms of general diet - extra carb meals or leave everything as it is and just add an extra round if peri-workout nutrition with the same dosages in the evening? (my last workouts usually ends within two hours before the bed).
In which case, if any, would you increase an individualâs pwo carb intake? Iâve seen some people recommeding from 100 to 180g of carbohydrates in form of maltodexterin post workout.
Thanks a lot!
[quote]DH wrote:
Capitalizing on multiple pulses of hyperaminoacidemia coupled with the protein sparing effects of the full meals is a potent way to eat. Iâd also suggest making your last protein meal of the day one that contains at least 20g of casein ( I use 35-40) for the anti-proteolytic benefits.
[/quote]
Right on! Thatâs is my current view also. Pulses of hyperaminoacidemia is definetely the future when it comes to building a lot of muscle while staying lean.
[quote]mrwhatwhat wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Needmassquick wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
tinman15 wrote:
The fat cycling made me think of protein cycling, have you experimented with it and if so what were your results?
Actually I have more experience with protein cycling than fat cycling. Long-story short, I believe that short periods of low protein intake can lead to an increase in protein synthesis muscle growth.
I also found that always consuming a super high protein intake eventually lead to stagnation in growth and even muscle loss.
So how do you go about lowering it and for how long and often?
First Iâll give you more details about âwhyâ I see a need to cycle protein.
Two words: blackout and habituation
Habituation is the phenomenon where you get used to an external influence. When habituated, this influence stops being a stress and it no longer leads to a positive adaptation of the body.
It happens with pretty much everything that goes on in our body.
At first increasing protein intake will lead to an increase in protein synthesis (and protein breakdown as well, but ot a lesser extent) which tends to lead to an increase in muscle mass.
If you stay at that level for a while your body gets used to it and it will regulate itself in such a way that the new protein level stops leading to an increase in protein synthesis. The body does so by increasing protein oxydation and degradation.
At that point youâll need to once again increase your proteinn intake , that will spark some new anabolism, but will shortly lead to havituation once again. And this new, even higher intake become enough to maintain only.
And it goes on and on until you need to ingest an idiotic amount or protein simply to avoid muscle breakdown.
A smarter approach is to periodically include low-protein days which will go a long way in preventing habituation, this way your body stay responsive to a high protein intake.
BLACKOUT means that if your body is constantly receiving a trickle of amino acids all day long (as does happen when you consume protein every 2 hours or so, especially from solid food) protein synthesis also decreases, for the same reason as stated above.
ONE OF THE MOST POWERFUL NUTRITIONAL STRATEGY YOU CAN USE TO STIMULATE MUSCLE GROWTH IS GOING FROM TO A STATE OF AMINO ACID DEPLETION TO A SUDDEN SURGE IN BLOOD AMINO ACIDS.
In other words going from a state where there isnât much amino acids in your blood to a state of hyperaminoacidemia will act as a direct signal to initiation protein synthesis/muscle building. And the faster you go from one another, the more powerful the impact will be.
Those peaks called hyperaminoacidemia are directly proportional to the spead of absorption of a protein. So casein hydrolysate is the most effective followed by whey hydrolysate and regular whey. You want as many of these peaks as possible, while tring to avoid having a constant flux of amino acids throughout most of the day.
Isnât your carb cycling codex though based on stable amounts of protein intake every day? Or does the fact that your cycling carbs change and eating an equal amount of protein per meal(i.e. non fluctuating amounts per meal) effectively stop habituation and catabolism?
How would you introduce a low-protein day into the carb cycling codex plan that you have laid out? Once every 2 weeks?
[/quote]
My current view on hyperaminoacidemia pulses is very new. I developed it over the past 2 months or so after reading a ton of research and discussing the subject with top experts like Dr. Tim Ziegenfuss.
THib, have you read the papers by Gabriel and Jacob Wilson at the JISSN website? Some great ground work for this pulsatile eating concept. In converstations with Jacob, we came to the basic template I posted earlier. He likes to use Amino Shooter between meals and even during the night if he needs to use the bathroom.
I believe Layne Norton has also started to feed this way also. It not only works better and requires fewer calories but you feel better too vs eating so much food.
Best,
DH
BTW, have you heard of/read the paper by Carpinelli recently? Itâs a bit of a rampage against the strength training community overall. He takes issue with all things from the NSCA. But in particular is a focus in his paper of determining MVMUA (maximum voluntary motor unit activation) and his belief that 20 rep sets taken to failure will activate as many FTMUâs as heavy training. Youâve got to check it out because his interpretation of the size princple and his general tone of âattackâ is quite surprisingâŠ
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
DH wrote:
Capitalizing on multiple pulses of hyperaminoacidemia coupled with the protein sparing effects of the full meals is a potent way to eat. Iâd also suggest making your last protein meal of the day one that contains at least 20g of casein ( I use 35-40) for the anti-proteolytic benefits.
Right on! Thatâs is my current view also. Pulses of hyperaminoacidemia is definetely the future when it comes to building a lot of muscle while staying lean.[/quote]
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
First Iâll give you more details about âwhyâ I see a need to cycle protein.
Two words: blackout and habituation
Habituation is the phenomenon where you get used to an external influence. When habituated, this influence stops being a stress and it no longer leads to a positive adaptation of the body.
It happens with pretty much everything that goes on in our body.
At first increasing protein intake will lead to an increase in protein synthesis (and protein breakdown as well, but ot a lesser extent) which tends to lead to an increase in muscle mass.
If you stay at that level for a while your body gets used to it and it will regulate itself in such a way that the new protein level stops leading to an increase in protein synthesis. The body does so by increasing protein oxydation and degradation.
At that point youâll need to once again increase your proteinn intake , that will spark some new anabolism, but will shortly lead to havituation once again. And this new, even higher intake become enough to maintain only.
And it goes on and on until you need to ingest an idiotic amount or protein simply to avoid muscle breakdown.
A smarter approach is to periodically include low-protein days which will go a long way in preventing habituation, this way your body stay responsive to a high protein intake.
BLACKOUT means that if your body is constantly receiving a trickle of amino acids all day long (as does happen when you consume protein every 2 hours or so, especially from solid food) protein synthesis also decreases, for the same reason as stated above.
ONE OF THE MOST POWERFUL NUTRITIONAL STRATEGY YOU CAN USE TO STIMULATE MUSCLE GROWTH IS GOING FROM TO A STATE OF AMINO ACID DEPLETION TO A SUDDEN SURGE IN BLOOD AMINO ACIDS.
In other words going from a state where there isnât much amino acids in your blood to a state of hyperaminoacidemia will act as a direct signal to initiation protein synthesis/muscle building. And the faster you go from one another, the more powerful the impact will be.
Those peaks called hyperaminoacidemia are directly proportional to the spead of absorption of a protein. So casein hydrolysate is the most effective followed by whey hydrolysate and regular whey. You want as many of these peaks as possible, while tring to avoid having a constant flux of amino acids throughout most of the day.[/quote]
Wait so now we DONâT want a constant flux of amino acids throughout the day? Hasnât that been what everyoneâs saying we do want all the time?
Iâm surprised I have never heard of this if itâs so powerful. So how often would you have these âlow proteinâ days and how low in protein would you go?
Using casein (unless itâs highly hydrolyzed) would likely mimic IV administration of aminos which creates a constant flow of aminos. After 1.5-2 hours of this protein synthesis goes refractory. Even though the levels in the blood are maximized, the growth stimulus has stopped.
PS is NOT dependent upon the absolute values of amino saturation but RATHER on the actual increasing and decreasing of aminos. A quick flood of aminos triggers synthesis and a drop stop the process. Something like casein that coagulates into a gel in the gut would provide a long term steady release of aminos and while this is good for preventing proteolysis (breakdown) you have prevented the ability to stimulate synthesis again for hours longer.
You want a hit and run attitude to protein.
Thatâs what Thib was saying in the âBlackoutâ post. Wilson and Wilson call it âgoing refractoryâ.
Hope thats clear. If not I can elaborate further.
Best,
DH
[quote]Italiano wrote:
Thib, aside from whole food choices, what type of protein or blend of protein supplements do you recommend as the best choice to be taken throughout the day?
Micellar Casein ? Calcium Caseinate ? Milk Protein Isolate ?(which is said to be 20% whey/80% casein)
[/quote]
Sorry to hijack. But yes that is what we are saying. In theory a constant supply was considered desirable becasue it was assumed that PS was triggered by absolute concentration.
Recent studies in the last 7 years or so have shown that it is the the actual increase of aminos that trigger PS and subsequently growth. But you MUST let those levels return to baseline so you can ramp them up again. Over and over you do this process.
Best,
DH
[quote]Needmassquick wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
First Iâll give you more details about âwhyâ I see a need to cycle protein.
Two words: blackout and habituation
Habituation is the phenomenon where you get used to an external influence. When habituated, this influence stops being a stress and it no longer leads to a positive adaptation of the body.
It happens with pretty much everything that goes on in our body.
At first increasing protein intake will lead to an increase in protein synthesis (and protein breakdown as well, but ot a lesser extent) which tends to lead to an increase in muscle mass.
If you stay at that level for a while your body gets used to it and it will regulate itself in such a way that the new protein level stops leading to an increase in protein synthesis. The body does so by increasing protein oxydation and degradation.
At that point youâll need to once again increase your proteinn intake , that will spark some new anabolism, but will shortly lead to havituation once again. And this new, even higher intake become enough to maintain only.
And it goes on and on until you need to ingest an idiotic amount or protein simply to avoid muscle breakdown.
A smarter approach is to periodically include low-protein days which will go a long way in preventing habituation, this way your body stay responsive to a high protein intake.
BLACKOUT means that if your body is constantly receiving a trickle of amino acids all day long (as does happen when you consume protein every 2 hours or so, especially from solid food) protein synthesis also decreases, for the same reason as stated above.
ONE OF THE MOST POWERFUL NUTRITIONAL STRATEGY YOU CAN USE TO STIMULATE MUSCLE GROWTH IS GOING FROM TO A STATE OF AMINO ACID DEPLETION TO A SUDDEN SURGE IN BLOOD AMINO ACIDS.
In other words going from a state where there isnât much amino acids in your blood to a state of hyperaminoacidemia will act as a direct signal to initiation protein synthesis/muscle building. And the faster you go from one another, the more powerful the impact will be.
Those peaks called hyperaminoacidemia are directly proportional to the spead of absorption of a protein. So casein hydrolysate is the most effective followed by whey hydrolysate and regular whey. You want as many of these peaks as possible, while tring to avoid having a constant flux of amino acids throughout most of the day.
Wait so now we DONâT want a constant flux of amino acids throughout the day? Hasnât that been what everyoneâs saying we do want all the time?
Iâm surprised I have never heard of this if itâs so powerful. So how often would you have these âlow proteinâ days and how low in protein would you go?[/quote]
Hey guys and Thib. Hope Iâm not offending by jumping in here. My intent is not to hijack I just hapen to have free time that I usually donât and enjoy helping.
One thing to keep in mind is that when youâre training a small bodpart like arms then you arenât depleting much glycogen overall. Even a tough workout might only need 100g at most. And really replenishment will happen naturally if you are eating CHO in your diet. You really are only wanting to get the insulin boost from the CHO to drive PS and blunt the catabolic effects of the session. That only takes a small amount. 25g would be more than sufficient to get what you really need. See Dave Barrâs recent works for more info.
Best,
DH
[quote]Quadforce wrote:
Hi coach.
Iâm currently following your Mechanical Drop Sets 12 Week Program and I have a couple of questions regarding the diet outlined in the book:
What adjustments would you suggest to do if a person worked out twice daily? In terms of peri-workout nutrition and in terms of general diet - extra carb meals or leave everything as it is and just add an extra round if peri-workout nutrition with the same dosages in the evening? (my last workouts usually ends within two hours before the bed).
In which case, if any, would you increase an individualâs pwo carb intake? Iâve seen some people recommeding from 100 to 180g of carbohydrates in form of maltodexterin post workout.
Thanks a lot![/quote]
[quote]DH wrote:
Sorry to hijack. But yes that is what we are saying. In theory a constant supply was considered desirable becasue it was assumed that PS was triggered by absolute concentration.
Recent studies in the last 7 years or so have shown that it is the the actual increase of aminos that trigger PS and subsequently growth. But you MUST let those levels return to baseline so you can ramp them up again. Over and over you do this process.
Best,
DH
[/quote]
This is really interesting but how long do you have to wait for it to go to baseline to jack it up again? Your taking those BCAAâs every 4 hours so how is that much different than the traditional meal every 3 hours? Because theyâre digested faster?
Also if someone couldnât buy something like whey/casein hydrolysate is there a way this could be applied taking some amount of whey protein at certain times? If so what would this be?
Thanks a lot
I donât mean to sound like Iâm against this, it just seems like one of those things that seems revolutionary at the time and later on people realize itâs probably not that important and people were getting really big before it (like the P+C/P+F meals that many seem to now be moving away from even though there were great arguments for it originally)
The study by Paddon and Jones that I referred to earlier had a very similar spacing of about 5 hours between solid meals and aminos in between. If you read what I wrote there you will see your questions answered.
Now, you could probably use whey concentrate (Isolate is not really any faster) and get a good effect. Jacob Wilson and I talked about this also.
But remember that BCAA powder and Leucine powder is cheap. Sucky taste, but just add some cyrstal lite or something.
DH
[quote]Needmassquick wrote:
DH wrote:
Sorry to hijack. But yes that is what we are saying. In theory a constant supply was considered desirable becasue it was assumed that PS was triggered by absolute concentration.
Recent studies in the last 7 years or so have shown that it is the the actual increase of aminos that trigger PS and subsequently growth. But you MUST let those levels return to baseline so you can ramp them up again. Over and over you do this process.
Best,
DH
This is really interesting but how long do you have to wait for it to go to baseline to jack it up again? Your taking those BCAAâs every 4 hours so how is that much different than the traditional meal every 3 hours? Because theyâre digested faster?
Also if someone couldnât buy something like whey/casein hydrolysate is there a way this could be applied taking some amount of whey protein at certain times? If so what would this be?
Thanks a lot
I donât mean to sound like Iâm against this, it just seems like one of those things that seems revolutionary at the time and later on people realize itâs probably not that important and people were getting really big before it (like the P+C/P+F meals that many seem to now be moving away from even though there were great arguments for it originally)[/quote]
Solid food will keep you from going below baseline. It will act not only in an anabolic fashion but also an anti-catablic one. Then when the amino levels are decreasing back to baseline you âjabâ some protein in and trigger PS. During this time, the solid food from your meals is still preventing protelysis.
With this approach you maximize anabolism via protein synthesis and protect yourself from protein breakdown from the longer term effects from the meals. We are getting anabolism and anti-catabolism at the same time. Then at night eat casein to get a single PS increase for about 2 hours during sleep and then for as much as 6-7 hours you will prevent proteolysis (breakdown). This gives you a VERY potent approach to maximizing growth and minimizing breakdown.
Best,
DH[quote]Needmassquick wrote:
DH wrote:
Sorry to hijack. But yes that is what we are saying. In theory a constant supply was considered desirable becasue it was assumed that PS was triggered by absolute concentration.
Recent studies in the last 7 years or so have shown that it is the the actual increase of aminos that trigger PS and subsequently growth. But you MUST let those levels return to baseline so you can ramp them up again. Over and over you do this process.
Best,
DH
This is really interesting but how long do you have to wait for it to go to baseline to jack it up again? Your taking those BCAAâs every 4 hours so how is that much different than the traditional meal every 3 hours? Because theyâre digested faster?
Also if someone couldnât buy something like whey/casein hydrolysate is there a way this could be applied taking some amount of whey protein at certain times? If so what would this be?
Thanks a lot
I donât mean to sound like Iâm against this, it just seems like one of those things that seems revolutionary at the time and later on people realize itâs probably not that important and people were getting really big before it (like the P+C/P+F meals that many seem to now be moving away from even though there were great arguments for it originally)[/quote]
[quote]DH wrote:
Solid food will keep you from going below baseline. It will act not only in an anabolic fashion but also an anti-catablic one. Then when the amino levels are decreasing back to baseline you âjabâ some protein in and trigger PS. During this time, the solid food from your meals is still preventing protelysis.
With this approach you maximize anabolism via protein synthesis and protect yourself from protein breakdown from the longer term effects from the meals. We are getting anabolism and anti-catabolism at the same time. Then at night eat casein to get a single PS increase for about 2 hours during sleep and then for as much as 6-7 hours you will prevent proteolysis (breakdown). This gives you a VERY potent approach to maximizing growth and minimizing breakdown.
Best,
DH
[/quote]
Ok so with this method you would have only about 4 meals a day + BCAAâs? In Berardiâs âGet Shredded Dietâ he suggests 4 meals per day so could this be applied here?
As for the whey being used, how would you go about placing it during the day in terms of __ grams every __ hours
Get 5 meals.
7am meal
9am AA
11am meal
1pm AA
3pm meal
5pm AA
7pm meal
9pm meal (casein)
that would work fine. Use about 30g whey (to get about 3g leucine) at the AA spots. take it by itself OR with a small amount of CHO depending on your diet and bodyfat levels. We are speculating on whey use here but I think it will prove useful. It usually drops in the bloodstream after about 2 hours or so. Once you get the drop THEN you can trigger the spike for another 2 hours or so. See how the pattern works?
Best,
DH
[quote]Needmassquick wrote:
DH wrote:
Solid food will keep you from going below baseline. It will act not only in an anabolic fashion but also an anti-catablic one. Then when the amino levels are decreasing back to baseline you âjabâ some protein in and trigger PS. During this time, the solid food from your meals is still preventing protelysis.
With this approach you maximize anabolism via protein synthesis and protect yourself from protein breakdown from the longer term effects from the meals. We are getting anabolism and anti-catabolism at the same time. Then at night eat casein to get a single PS increase for about 2 hours during sleep and then for as much as 6-7 hours you will prevent proteolysis (breakdown). This gives you a VERY potent approach to maximizing growth and minimizing breakdown.
Best,
DH
Ok so with this method you would have only about 4 meals a day + BCAAâs? In Berardiâs âGet Shredded Dietâ he suggests 4 meals per day so could this be applied here?
As for the whey being used, how would you go about placing it during the day in terms of __ grams every __ hours
[/quote]
Hi Coach,
you wrote:
âONE OF THE MOST POWERFUL NUTRITIONAL STRATEGY YOU CAN USE TO STIMULATE MUSCLE GROWTH IS GOING FROM TO A STATE OF AMINO ACID DEPLETION TO A SUDDEN SURGE IN BLOOD AMINO ACIDSâ.
that sounds possible, or better still right.
Did you prove this approach?
would you suggest us how can we test this strategy?
thank you
[quote]DH wrote:
Get 5 meals.
7am meal
9am AA
11am meal
1pm AA
3pm meal
5pm AA
7pm meal
9pm meal (casein)
that would work fine. Use about 30g whey (to get about 3g leucine) at the AA spots. take it by itself OR with a small amount of CHO depending on your diet and bodyfat levels. We are speculating on whey use here but I think it will prove useful. It usually drops in the bloodstream after about 2 hours or so. Once you get the drop THEN you can trigger the spike for another 2 hours or so. See how the pattern works?
Best,
DH
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and by âTHEN you can trigger the spike for another 2 hoursâ I assume that is done by a âmealâ since it goes AA,meal,AA,meal,etcâŠ?
hmâŠI was thinking that was a ton of whey to have that often but its only 90g which would be 3.9 scoops of what I have. I get free food at college so that means more money spent on protein (whereas I know its actually cheaper per amount of calories when compared to real food if I had to buy it) but itâs not a big deal and I think I should give it a shot.
What about on workout days thoughâŠdo you still have all the BCAAâs (and in my case, whey) along with pre and post workout whey?
sorry for all the questions but could this be applied to John Berardiâs Get Shredded Diet where theres only 4 meals? I would think it could help you prevent muscle loss, the only downside being you have to eat even less food.
Thanks CT and DH