[quote]JosephT123 wrote:
Thib in the past you said something about the regular deadlift being very draining on the CNS (and I have found that out over the years). With that being said do you think it is ok deadlifting more than once per week using the ramping method? and are other variations of the deadlift (trap bar, romanian, snatch grip, deficit pulls) less draining on the CNS and more able to be done multiple times per week.
I have a high work capacity and train 6 days per week using a push/lats-biceps/legs split[/quote]
Not CT so I hope he doesn’t mind if I give this one a go…
Joseph - Regular DL can be very draining on the CNS especially when you do multiple rep sets and lower the weight to the floor. If you want to DL more often then consider singles ramping and letting the weight go at the top - better have the right gym for that though.
Like this:
Also depends on whether or not you are built for DL - long arms, short torso. If you have better leverages for a lift = less draining on CNS. Squats for me are very draining - long legs, short torso, but I manage.
Know yourself, listen to your body - autoregulate your training.
Bottom line - try it, see how your body reacts, make sure rest, nutrition and peri-workout nutrition are spot on, you might be able to do it.
During a bodycomp phase would/could you simply add/replace the isolation work in a mass phase with some metabolic pairings at the end of the workouts?
Sample UpperBody Performance BC WO:
STRENGTH PORTION
A. Activation Movement
B. O/H Presses
C. Incline Presses
D. Flat Presses
All moves ramped up using 3-5 rep range etc.
METABOLIC CIRCUIT
E1.Thrusters
E2.Burpees
E3.Abs
Repeat 5 times NOT counting reps but roughly in the 12-15 range
CT, I know that diet is the most important part of fatloss/body recomp but, given your new training techniques how would you set up a weekly schedule when fatloss/muscle retention is the main goal? Specific exercises not needed just the weekly split.
I would think higher training frequency and volume helps with fat loss. If for example you went from training a muscle group once a week to twice a week I think fat loss would speed up.
mutsanah thank you for the respone, I deadlift at home so that won’t be a problem. I’ll give it a try
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
DAY 1 - Upper body performance (pressing plus auxiliary rear delts, traps ad rhomboids work)
DAY 2 - Lats and biceps
DAY 3 - Upper body performance 2
DAY 4 - Lower body[/quote]How many days (usually) between DAY 1 and DAY 3?
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
DAY 1 - Upper body performance (pressing plus auxiliary rear delts, traps ad rhomboids work)
DAY 2 - Lats and biceps
DAY 3 - Upper body performance 2
DAY 4 - Lower body[/quote]How many days (usually) between DAY 1 and DAY 3?
[/quote]
If you started on Monday, you would go straight on through Thursday perform a Neural charge workout on Friday and repeat starting Saturday or I guess you can throw in a neural charge workout on Wed.
CT, for shoulders on performance days I have been doing:
A)medicine ball throws
1)push press
staggered with shrugs.
2)Behind the neck pressing
staggered with machine fly’s.
My problem is that after the push press I seem to only be able to ramp up to about 3 sets with the BTNP would it be better to:
A)Start with the BTNP and continue with the push press.
B)Just ramp up using lighter weights with the BTNP.
C)Lower push press volume.
Also I remember you mentioning that Tricep work is not that essential due to all the pressing on performance days, would you advise tricep work if chest work is done with DB’s instead? They seem to take the triceps out of the movement.
EDIT: Probably does not belong here but, I was wondering if one can train the body to grow on fewer calories. Getting it used to eating less OR having overall lower calories with the majority especially carbs around training.
Thibs, you poste dthis in one of your threads. An example for concentrated loading.
Monday AM: Back width
Monday PM: Eccentric-less back work
Tuesday AM: Back thickness
Tuesday PM: Eccentric-less back work
Wednesday AM: Lower back and Traps
Wednesday PM: Biceps
Thursday: Lower body
Friday: Chest & Triceps
Saturday: OFF
Sunday: Shoulders
However I remember you mentioning that you prefer push, pull, or legs concentration and that you like to train that specific movement pattern the first 3 days. Is this a good set up?
Mon:Upper Body Performance 1
Tues:Upper Body Performance 2
Wed:Upper Body Performance 3
Thurs:Neural Charge
Fri:Pull
Sat:Legs
Is the eccentric workouts essential to being able to hit the same movement patterns day after day or is it just a way to get in more volume? Meaning if I can only train once per day will I still get results?
Also, Since it is a Pressing concentraion would you still train Traps, Rhomboids on pressing or move it to the pull day?
Lastly, would this be a good way to put on muscle while on a Body Recomp instead of an all out fatloss schedule?
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
DAY 1 - Upper body performance (pressing plus auxiliary rear delts, traps ad rhomboids work)
DAY 2 - Lats and biceps
DAY 3 - Upper body performance 2
DAY 4 - Lower body[/quote]How many days (usually) between DAY 1 and DAY 3?
[/quote]
If you started on Monday, you would go straight on through Thursday perform a Neural charge workout on Friday and repeat starting Saturday or I guess you can throw in a neural charge workout on Wed.[/quote]
Hi
I think the idea was that the 4 days would be for a 7 day, weekly cycle. Therefor I think the guy was asking how to break it down into a weekly trainin split.
I’d go with :
Mon- upper perform + traps etc
Tues- fast - NC
Wed- foundation - eat big
Thurs- upper perform 2
Fri - fast - NC
Sat- legs - eat big with a few cheeky cheats
Sun - off/NC
[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
However I remember you mentioning that you prefer push, pull, or legs concentration and that you like to train that specific movement pattern the first 3 days. Is this a good set up?
Mon:Upper Body Performance 1
Tues:Upper Body Performance 2
Wed:Upper Body Performance 3
Thurs:Neural Charge
Fri:Pull
Sat:Legs
Is the eccentric workouts essential to being able to hit the same movement patterns day after day or is it just a way to get in more volume? Meaning if I can only train once per day will I still get results?
Also, Since it is a Pressing concentraion would you still train Traps, Rhomboids on pressing or move it to the pull day?
Lastly, would this be a good way to put on muscle while on a Body Recomp instead of an all out fatloss schedule?[/quote]
The eccentric-less workouts are not an obligation BUT when used with the proper peri-workout protocol they improve recovery significantly. In other words, while you may be able to pull off such a spec without the eccentric-less workouts, you will not get the same results at the end.
It’s not a pressing concentration, it’s a peformance muscle concentration… traps, rhomboids and rear delts are worked on those days. And Friday is NOT a pull day… it’s LATS and biceps, similar but not exactly the same thing.
[quote]Logan24 wrote:
CT, for shoulders on performance days I have been doing:
A)medicine ball throws
1)push press
staggered with shrugs.
2)Behind the neck pressing
staggered with machine fly’s.
My problem is that after the push press I seem to only be able to ramp up to about 3 sets with the BTNP would it be better to:
A)Start with the BTNP and continue with the push press.
B)Just ramp up using lighter weights with the BTNP.
C)Lower push press volume.
Also I remember you mentioning that Tricep work is not that essential due to all the pressing on performance days, would you advise tricep work if chest work is done with DB’s instead? They seem to take the triceps out of the movement.
EDIT: Probably does not belong here but, I was wondering if one can train the body to grow on fewer calories. Getting it used to eating less OR having overall lower calories with the majority especially carbs around training. [/quote]
Your push press must suck because technically you should be stronger on the push press than on the behind the neck press.
AND when using a continuous (multi-exercise) ramp you only use one exercise per plane of movement… in other words, do not use two overhead movements.
Okay CT, I think I’ll never question your methods ever again. After looking at your insane arm workout I wanted to see how much volume (for bicep) I can handle. Here’s what I did:
Biceps:
A1.Barbell curls: ramping sets of 6 and the last 2 of 8 reps
A2.One arm (long streaight bar) curls: 5-6 reps
A3.Wide-grip, elbows-in preacher curls on the cable machine: 5-8 reps
It took an hour to complete it. I did 6 circuits, the last one being a max rep circuit because we were in a hurry. I think you’re gonna say that I have to improve my density regarding workouts, yet my biceps and even my forearms are sore after preety much 5-6 months from the last time they’ve ever been this way. But I’ve done like 20 sets in the past (maybe with lower load) and never got sore.
On to triceps:
A1.Close-grip bench press: 3 cluster reps with 1 RM (my new PR) and 10 seconds between each
A2.Seated french curls: (may not have been a good exercise) 5 reps
A3.V-bar pushdowns (elbows-out): 10 reps
Between A1 and A2 there was a 3-5 second rest and between A2 and A3 thre was no rest. I managed to do 5 circuit, I was dead after the 4th and had to lower the weight on A1, yet my triceps aren’t sore at all.It took half an hour to complete the triceps circuits.
I wanted to ask what happened? I mean my biceps felt like it could do more (but the time wasn’t enought) and my triceps felt like it was gonna blow. I guess its because of the higher magnitude and volume combo. But I wanna see some opinions (if it isn’t too much to ask, of couce).
CT,can I include/use guillotine bench press as my flat pressing movement in Upper Body Performance workout?
In case of affirmative answer, have you some advice about elbows rotation?
[quote]Logan24 wrote:
CT, for shoulders on performance days I have been doing:
A)medicine ball throws
1)push press
staggered with shrugs.
2)Behind the neck pressing
staggered with machine fly’s.
My problem is that after the push press I seem to only be able to ramp up to about 3 sets with the BTNP would it be better to:
A)Start with the BTNP and continue with the push press.
B)Just ramp up using lighter weights with the BTNP.
C)Lower push press volume.
Also I remember you mentioning that Tricep work is not that essential due to all the pressing on performance days, would you advise tricep work if chest work is done with DB’s instead? They seem to take the triceps out of the movement.
EDIT: Probably does not belong here but, I was wondering if one can train the body to grow on fewer calories. Getting it used to eating less OR having overall lower calories with the majority especially carbs around training. [/quote]
Your push press must suck because technically you should be stronger on the push press than on the behind the neck press.
AND when using a continuous (multi-exercise) ramp you only use one exercise per plane of movement… in other words, do not use two overhead movements.
[/quote]
Thanks for the response but, what I meant was that I was tired after the push press to get a lot of sets out of the BTNP. I would do 7-10 sets ramping weight on the push press and about 3 on the BTNP press I did not have enough in me to do more sets and I though it was necesary to do more sets.
However, since you said there should only be one overhead press I guess it does not really matter.
EDIT: I just saw the post you made in another thread. I did not realize the activation exercise counted as exercise 1.
During a bodycomp phase would/could you simply add/replace the isolation work in a mass phase with some metabolic pairings at the end of the workouts?
Sample UpperBody Performance BC WO:
STRENGTH PORTION
A. Activation Movement
B. O/H Presses
C. Incline Presses
D. Flat Presses
All moves ramped up using 3-5 rep range etc.
METABOLIC CIRCUIT
E1.Thrusters
E2.Burpees
E3.Abs
Repeat 5 times NOT counting reps but roughly in the 12-15 range
Thanks,
GJ[/quote]
Thibs, I have a similar question obviously diet is very important but, what would be an example of an optimal weekly training regimen when the goal is max fatloss while maintaining as much muscle as possible. I am able to do multiple workouts a day.
First off, thanks to everyone at T-Nation for all the awesome information. That includes everyone on the forums and especially CT!
For hamstrings, should they be trained in the higher rep ranges like the pulling muscles of the upper body? Should glute ham raises, leg curls, RDLs and the like be performed in the 6-12 rep range?
(Also, if this is a dumass question, just let me know why it is. I am glad to receive any information.)
[quote]Diego Z. wrote:
CT,can I include/use guillotine bench press as my flat pressing movement in Upper Body Performance workout?
In case of affirmative answer, have you some advice about elbows rotation?[/quote]
Honestly I wouldn’t do that. The guillotine press is dangerous if done with heavy weights. And if you can’t use heavy weights, it kinda goes against the “performance” aspect of the workout.
On a lower body day, what do you think about the use of bands with deadlifts. I remember you stating that using bands with weights is too stressful on the CNS. Am I able to use bands with lighter weight whilst ramping at the start and move onto normal deadlifts?
