CT, I camr across an article by Bill Starr on isotonic-isomaetric movement using barbells loaded with weight. I remembered you have also mentioned about excerises that ultilised isotonic-isomaetric movement being more superior than isomatric movement alone. I was wondering what are u views on this?
CT, do you do any work with kettlebells for bodybuilding purposes?
Coach,
I was wondering if you have any supplemental grip programs that can be "overlayed" with one's current program. I have come across a number of grip specific programs...but I'm making great progress right now and really enjoy what I'm doing and don't wish to radically alter my current program. Is there anything you can suggest that I can enter inbetween sets or at the end of my workouts?
Also, I know that you’ve spoken about Power Drive in the past and how you like to use it as a recovery tool post workout. How do you have your athletes take it? Do you have them take 1 scoop 30-60 min before their workout and then 1 scoop directly after or do you simply have them take 1 scoop post workout?
Thanks in advance CT.
[quote]Costco77 wrote:
CT, do you do any work with kettlebells for bodybuilding purposes?[/quote]
No.
I do some typical KB exercises like swings, and 1-arm snatches and cleans, but I use DBs. I see no advantage worth the investment when it comes to KBs. For m money I prefer to buy a prowler.
[quote]Davinci.v2 wrote:
Coach,
I was wondering if you have any supplemental grip programs that can be "overlayed" with one's current program. I have come across a number of grip specific programs...but I'm making great progress right now and really enjoy what I'm doing and don't wish to radically alter my current program. Is there anything you can suggest that I can enter inbetween sets or at the end of my workouts?
Also, I know that you’ve spoken about Power Drive in the past and how you like to use it as a recovery tool post workout. How do you have your athletes take it? Do you have them take 1 scoop 30-60 min before their workout and then 1 scoop directly after or do you simply have them take 1 scoop post workout?
Thanks in advance CT.[/quote]
Re the Power Drive, I use 2 scoops post… that’s it.
Regarding your grip question, here is something I wrote that might help you.
GRIP PROBLEM? HELP FROM THE STRONGEST ‘GRIP-MAN’ OF ALL TIME! â?¨â?¨
I have smallish hands, it has always hurt my Olympic lifting performance in the past, mostly because I did not try to correct the situation by working on my grip strength. ��
For example, when I was competing in olympic lifting I could snatch 142.5kg in training (actually have that on video) yet my best in competition was only 125kg (around a 40lbs difference). The main reason was that I often relied on straps during training. The ‘more secure’ grip allowed me to transfer more force to the bar which led to ‘better’ performances in training, but bad ones when it counted. â?¨â?¨
I didn’t help myself in that I never worked on my grip strength and used straps for all pulls and deadlifts. â?¨â?¨
I started training on the olympic lifts again, and still train the deadlift hard (my nemesis; which I want to conquer). This time around I decided to throw away my straps completely and work on my grip strength to solve that problem once and for all. ��
I did the typical grip stuff: Captain of Crush grippers, pinch gripping, bar holds, forearm work, etc. My hands got stronger, on those lifts, but it didn’t seem to transfer 100% to the actual performance of snatches, cleans and deadlifts. â?¨â?¨
So I looked elsewhere, to one of the strongest grip-man (if not the strongest) of all tine: Hermann Goerner. That man has too many grip-strength feats to number them, but suffice to say that he has deadlifted over 750lbs with one hand. This requires a grip of steal! ��
How did he train his grip strength? He would ramp up the weight on his deadlifts (and one-hand deadlifts)… with the lighter loads he would use a tougher grip and as the weight were getting heavier and heavier he would switch to a stronger and stronger grip type. â?¨â?¨
For example, he might start his deadlifts by using a supinated (palms forward) grip, using only two fingers per hand. He would ramp up the weight.; when the load got challenging for that grip he would switch to a pronated grip (palms facing him) still using only two fingers.�When that second grip type was starting to be problematic he would switch to a three fingers supinated grip; then eventually to a three fingers pronated grip. ��
When three fingers were not enough he would use a full, supinated grip (using the 4 fingers and the thumb wrapped around the bar) then a full pronated grip. ��
When the full pronated grip was starting to be tough he finally switched to an alternating (over-under) grip. ��
This progression is a bit long for myself, as I’m not a grip-master yet, so I adapted it. It looks like this: â?¨â?¨
GRIP TYPE 1: Two-fingers (pronated) â?¨
GRIP TYPE 2: Three-fingers (pronated) â?¨
GRIP TYPE 3: Full grip (pronated) â?¨
GRIP TYPE 4: Hook grip (olympic lifting grip) â?¨
GRIP TYPE 5: Alternating grip ��
I ramp up the weight on all sets. I use this method for deadlifts and shrugs (which I now use as my main grip exercise). ��
I find that this:â?¨
- Transfers directly to gripping performance on the actual lifts â?¨
- Gave me really deep forearm soreness the next day, the first time I tried it ��
GOERNER, NOT ALONE ��
Goerner is not the only one to recommend such technique. At least two other respected authorities recommended a somewhat similar approach. â?¨â?¨Years ago Tommy Kono (former world champion olympic lifter) recommended that those who have a weak grip do their olympic lifts with a regular full grip instead of the typical hook grip (which is more secure but doesn’t improve grip strength) on snatches and clean until the weight on those lifts absolutely require the use of a hook grip. Over time this makes the grip much stronger. â?¨â?¨
Charles Poliquin also recommends the same when he works with female olympic lifters. In OL the women lifts on a smaller bar, less thick (25mm instead of 28mm). Charles recommends that the female lifters use the men’s bar for as long as they can, and switch to the women’s bar when the weight gets heavy. He noticed an actual increase in pulling strength as soon as you switch bar (better neural activation). â?¨â?¨
He recommended something similar on rowing movements. Guys can use a thick bar for the lighter work sets and switch to a regular sized bar as the weight gets heavier.
If you desire a strong grip that will help on your lifts you must do gripping work that is specific to what you want to do. While crusher work is effective, by itself it is not the best way to build a secure grip for your basic liftd.
As always, incredibly helpful. Thanks CT.
Hey coach!
Is raisins a good source of carbohydrates after training?
Christian,
I am Carb cycling (P+C breakfast, Peri workout, anaconda during workout and P+F & veggies the rest of the day) with two heavy days and following your Destroying the Fat guidelines for training
Day 1: Heavy lifting chest/back + alactic work
Day 2: Lactate-inducing workout 1 + 20-30 minutes of steady-state aerobic work
Day 3: OFF
Day 4: Heavy lifting quads/hams
Day 5: OFF
Day 6: Lactate-inducing workout 2 + 20-30 minutes of steady-state aerobic work
Day 7: OFF
(1) I’ve tried this before and had great success. Fast forwarding to where you are at today, would you advise any changes to the above? I am interested in maximum fatloss.
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
[quote]nickj_777 wrote:
Hey CT what is your opinion on the penta jump for hamstring activation or for a deadlift session? Lets says 3 sets of the pent jump pre lifting?
[/quote]
I always said that broad jumps are best for activating the hamstrings. I PERSONALLY use what you call penta jumps (I call them 5 reps of broad jumps) and have been using them with my athletes (hockey, football, track, basketball, etc.) since 2000 when I trained a guy for the Canadian bobsleigh team and this was one of their tests.
BUT I find it to be too high level for bodybuilders and those not used to jumping and landing to start with. I had Daryl attempt them and his landing was not comfortable and it hurt his knees. Absorbing the impact of your body from a jump forward is very hard on your knees if you do not already possess good absorption capacity.[/quote]
Are there any movements that can help to improve one’s absorption capacity?
Hello Thib, I’ve been training hard for almost 2 years now. I’ve gained over 30 lbs of muscle. 130-160+ and I feel like I’m just getting started. Your advice about CNS activation and using the pins to work on sticking points has helped me so much. I must say that even though I consider myself a bodybuilder, I still feel that the olympic lifts are the key to my training.
Anyways here is my question. . . I can efficiently do the full versions of the clean and snatch. Will working on the full versions provide me with any bodybuilding benefits as opposed to power cleans, power snatches, front squats, and overhead squats?
CT,
I’ve read in many places that working legs is absolutely neccesary if you want to make OVERALL gains… on many forums aswell in response to people asking to get a bigger upper body “experts” would reply “squat and deadlift”.
Now my question is, say your goals with training is to get an athletic lean looking body (180lb at 5"9 or so) and your legs are at a satisfactory development (i specialised legs when training for bbal for like 6 months) do you need to train them still to make the gains you want? or are upperbody workouts enough?
Thanks in advance!
[quote]kaoticz wrote:
CT,
I’ve read in many places that working legs is absolutely neccesary if you want to make OVERALL gains… on many forums aswell in response to people asking to get a bigger upper body “experts” would reply “squat and deadlift”.
Now my question is, say your goals with training is to get an athletic lean looking body (180lb at 5"9 or so) and your legs are at a satisfactory development (i specialised legs when training for bbal for like 6 months) do you need to train them still to make the gains you want? or are upperbody workouts enough?
Thanks in advance![/quote]
I don’t like this question because 9 times out of 10 it comes from someone who is looking for an excuse not to train legs. And even if you could legitimately do without leg work because your legs really are overpowering then a lot of people who have no business not training legs will use the fact that I said that it was okay not to train legs.
I’ll tell you that 90% of the population should train their legs. A few exceptions do not have to because they are already very muscular. Myself for example, for roughly 12 years I squatted at least 3 times a week. For 5 years as an olympic lifter I actually squatted 6 days a week, sometimes twice a day. I can honestly say that I do not need to train them and they still look better than most people who train them hard.
But I still do train legs, albeit not at the same frequency as everything else.
6 months of leg specialization doesn’t justify not training legs at all. So you can’t use that as an excuse not to train legs… you don’t HAVE to train them (and you probably wont) but the only excuse you can use is that you don’t feel like training them.
But to answer your question, leg work is not necessary to make the upper body grow. Happy?
[quote]toots27mkc wrote:
Hello Thib, I’ve been training hard for almost 2 years now. I’ve gained over 30 lbs of muscle. 130-160+ and I feel like I’m just getting started. Your advice about CNS activation and using the pins to work on sticking points has helped me so much. I must say that even though I consider myself a bodybuilder, I still feel that the olympic lifts are the key to my training.
Anyways here is my question. . . I can efficiently do the full versions of the clean and snatch. Will working on the full versions provide me with any bodybuilding benefits as opposed to power cleans, power snatches, front squats, and overhead squats?[/quote]
No they wont. If anything they require less power (power = force x distance/time … so the higher you have to pull, the more power you have to generate). The full lifts allow you to lift more weight simply because you do not have to lift the weight as high.
People will argue that the standing up portion will contribute to building the legs. Well, unless you are VERY technically efficient you will font squat more than you can clean and overhead squat more than you can snatch. So if you are doing squats, then there is not need to do the full lifts unless it is simply to attract more attention in the gym.
Thanks, good to know. I guess the main reason I do them is because they are fun to do(not a good reason).
I have a question concerning lactate inducing workouts,
what % of the 1RM should be used doing a typical circuit like this ?
a1:push
a2:quads
a3:pull
a4:hams
a5:abdominals
should my i shit my pants on the last rep of each exercise if I decide to do all the movements for 15 reps using 30X tempo ?
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
[quote]Davinci.v2 wrote:
Coach,
I was wondering if you have any supplemental grip programs that can be "overlayed" with one's current program. I have come across a number of grip specific programs...but I'm making great progress right now and really enjoy what I'm doing and don't wish to radically alter my current program. Is there anything you can suggest that I can enter inbetween sets or at the end of my workouts?
Also, I know that you’ve spoken about Power Drive in the past and how you like to use it as a recovery tool post workout. How do you have your athletes take it? Do you have them take 1 scoop 30-60 min before their workout and then 1 scoop directly after or do you simply have them take 1 scoop post workout?
Thanks in advance CT.[/quote]
Re the Power Drive, I use 2 scoops post… that’s it.
Regarding your grip question, here is something I wrote that might help you.
GRIP PROBLEM? HELP FROM THE STRONGEST ‘GRIP-MAN’ OF ALL TIME! â?¨â?¨
I have smallish hands, it has always hurt my Olympic lifting performance in the past, mostly because I did not try to correct the situation by working on my grip strength. ��
For example, when I was competing in olympic lifting I could snatch 142.5kg in training (actually have that on video) yet my best in competition was only 125kg (around a 40lbs difference). The main reason was that I often relied on straps during training. The ‘more secure’ grip allowed me to transfer more force to the bar which led to ‘better’ performances in training, but bad ones when it counted. â?¨â?¨
I didn’t help myself in that I never worked on my grip strength and used straps for all pulls and deadlifts. â?¨â?¨
I started training on the olympic lifts again, and still train the deadlift hard (my nemesis; which I want to conquer). This time around I decided to throw away my straps completely and work on my grip strength to solve that problem once and for all. ��
I did the typical grip stuff: Captain of Crush grippers, pinch gripping, bar holds, forearm work, etc. My hands got stronger, on those lifts, but it didn’t seem to transfer 100% to the actual performance of snatches, cleans and deadlifts. â?¨â?¨
So I looked elsewhere, to one of the strongest grip-man (if not the strongest) of all tine: Hermann Goerner. That man has too many grip-strength feats to number them, but suffice to say that he has deadlifted over 750lbs with one hand. This requires a grip of steal! ��
How did he train his grip strength? He would ramp up the weight on his deadlifts (and one-hand deadlifts)… with the lighter loads he would use a tougher grip and as the weight were getting heavier and heavier he would switch to a stronger and stronger grip type. â?¨â?¨
For example, he might start his deadlifts by using a supinated (palms forward) grip, using only two fingers per hand. He would ramp up the weight.; when the load got challenging for that grip he would switch to a pronated grip (palms facing him) still using only two fingers.�When that second grip type was starting to be problematic he would switch to a three fingers supinated grip; then eventually to a three fingers pronated grip. ��
When three fingers were not enough he would use a full, supinated grip (using the 4 fingers and the thumb wrapped around the bar) then a full pronated grip. ��
When the full pronated grip was starting to be tough he finally switched to an alternating (over-under) grip. ��
This progression is a bit long for myself, as I’m not a grip-master yet, so I adapted it. It looks like this: â?¨â?¨
GRIP TYPE 1: Two-fingers (pronated) â?¨
GRIP TYPE 2: Three-fingers (pronated) â?¨
GRIP TYPE 3: Full grip (pronated) â?¨
GRIP TYPE 4: Hook grip (olympic lifting grip) â?¨
GRIP TYPE 5: Alternating grip ��
I ramp up the weight on all sets. I use this method for deadlifts and shrugs (which I now use as my main grip exercise). ��
I find that this:â?¨
- Transfers directly to gripping performance on the actual lifts â?¨
- Gave me really deep forearm soreness the next day, the first time I tried it ��
GOERNER, NOT ALONE ��
Goerner is not the only one to recommend such technique. At least two other respected authorities recommended a somewhat similar approach. â?¨â?¨Years ago Tommy Kono (former world champion olympic lifter) recommended that those who have a weak grip do their olympic lifts with a regular full grip instead of the typical hook grip (which is more secure but doesn’t improve grip strength) on snatches and clean until the weight on those lifts absolutely require the use of a hook grip. Over time this makes the grip much stronger. â?¨â?¨
Charles Poliquin also recommends the same when he works with female olympic lifters. In OL the women lifts on a smaller bar, less thick (25mm instead of 28mm). Charles recommends that the female lifters use the men’s bar for as long as they can, and switch to the women’s bar when the weight gets heavy. He noticed an actual increase in pulling strength as soon as you switch bar (better neural activation). â?¨â?¨
He recommended something similar on rowing movements. Guys can use a thick bar for the lighter work sets and switch to a regular sized bar as the weight gets heavier.
If you desire a strong grip that will help on your lifts you must do gripping work that is specific to what you want to do. While crusher work is effective, by itself it is not the best way to build a secure grip for your basic liftd.
[/quote]
So is the hook grip similar or the same as a false grip like gymnasts use? Excuse my ignorance.
[quote]Cyrus_99 wrote:
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
[quote]Davinci.v2 wrote:
Coach,
I was wondering if you have any supplemental grip programs that can be "overlayed" with one's current program. I have come across a number of grip specific programs...but I'm making great progress right now and really enjoy what I'm doing and don't wish to radically alter my current program. Is there anything you can suggest that I can enter inbetween sets or at the end of my workouts?
Also, I know that you’ve spoken about Power Drive in the past and how you like to use it as a recovery tool post workout. How do you have your athletes take it? Do you have them take 1 scoop 30-60 min before their workout and then 1 scoop directly after or do you simply have them take 1 scoop post workout?
Thanks in advance CT.[/quote]
Re the Power Drive, I use 2 scoops post… that’s it.
Regarding your grip question, here is something I wrote that might help you.
GRIP PROBLEM? HELP FROM THE STRONGEST ‘GRIP-MAN’ OF ALL TIME! Ã?¢?Ã?¨Ã?¢?Ã?¨
I have smallish hands, it has always hurt my Olympic lifting performance in the past, mostly because I did not try to correct the situation by working on my grip strength. �¢?�¨�¢?�¨
For example, when I was competing in olympic lifting I could snatch 142.5kg in training (actually have that on video) yet my best in competition was only 125kg (around a 40lbs difference). The main reason was that I often relied on straps during training. The ‘more secure’ grip allowed me to transfer more force to the bar which led to ‘better’ performances in training, but bad ones when it counted. Ã?¢?Ã?¨Ã?¢?Ã?¨
I didn’t help myself in that I never worked on my grip strength and used straps for all pulls and deadlifts. Ã?¢?Ã?¨Ã?¢?Ã?¨
I started training on the olympic lifts again, and still train the deadlift hard (my nemesis; which I want to conquer). This time around I decided to throw away my straps completely and work on my grip strength to solve that problem once and for all. �¢?�¨�¢?�¨
I did the typical grip stuff: Captain of Crush grippers, pinch gripping, bar holds, forearm work, etc. My hands got stronger, on those lifts, but it didn’t seem to transfer 100% to the actual performance of snatches, cleans and deadlifts. Ã?¢?Ã?¨Ã?¢?Ã?¨
So I looked elsewhere, to one of the strongest grip-man (if not the strongest) of all tine: Hermann Goerner. That man has too many grip-strength feats to number them, but suffice to say that he has deadlifted over 750lbs with one hand. This requires a grip of steal! �¢?�¨�¢?�¨
How did he train his grip strength? He would ramp up the weight on his deadlifts (and one-hand deadlifts)… with the lighter loads he would use a tougher grip and as the weight were getting heavier and heavier he would switch to a stronger and stronger grip type. Ã?¢?Ã?¨Ã?¢?Ã?¨
For example, he might start his deadlifts by using a supinated (palms forward) grip, using only two fingers per hand. He would ramp up the weight.; when the load got challenging for that grip he would switch to a pronated grip (palms facing him) still using only two fingers.�¢?�¨When that second grip type was starting to be problematic he would switch to a three fingers supinated grip; then eventually to a three fingers pronated grip. �¢?�¨�¢?�¨
When three fingers were not enough he would use a full, supinated grip (using the 4 fingers and the thumb wrapped around the bar) then a full pronated grip. �¢?�¨�¢?�¨
When the full pronated grip was starting to be tough he finally switched to an alternating (over-under) grip. �¢?�¨�¢?�¨
This progression is a bit long for myself, as I’m not a grip-master yet, so I adapted it. It looks like this: Ã?¢?Ã?¨Ã?¢?Ã?¨
GRIP TYPE 1: Two-fingers (pronated) �¢?�¨
GRIP TYPE 2: Three-fingers (pronated) �¢?�¨
GRIP TYPE 3: Full grip (pronated) �¢?�¨
GRIP TYPE 4: Hook grip (olympic lifting grip) �¢?�¨
GRIP TYPE 5: Alternating grip �¢?�¨�¢?�¨
I ramp up the weight on all sets. I use this method for deadlifts and shrugs (which I now use as my main grip exercise). �¢?�¨�¢?�¨
I find that this:�¢?�¨
- Transfers directly to gripping performance on the actual lifts �¢?�¨
- Gave me really deep forearm soreness the next day, the first time I tried it �¢?�¨�¢?�¨
GOERNER, NOT ALONE �¢?�¨�¢?�¨
Goerner is not the only one to recommend such technique. At least two other respected authorities recommended a somewhat similar approach. Ã?¢?Ã?¨Ã?¢?Ã?¨Years ago Tommy Kono (former world champion olympic lifter) recommended that those who have a weak grip do their olympic lifts with a regular full grip instead of the typical hook grip (which is more secure but doesn’t improve grip strength) on snatches and clean until the weight on those lifts absolutely require the use of a hook grip. Over time this makes the grip much stronger. Ã?¢?Ã?¨Ã?¢?Ã?¨
Charles Poliquin also recommends the same when he works with female olympic lifters. In OL the women lifts on a smaller bar, less thick (25mm instead of 28mm). Charles recommends that the female lifters use the men’s bar for as long as they can, and switch to the women’s bar when the weight gets heavy. He noticed an actual increase in pulling strength as soon as you switch bar (better neural activation). Ã?¢?Ã?¨Ã?¢?Ã?¨
He recommended something similar on rowing movements. Guys can use a thick bar for the lighter work sets and switch to a regular sized bar as the weight gets heavier.
If you desire a strong grip that will help on your lifts you must do gripping work that is specific to what you want to do. While crusher work is effective, by itself it is not the best way to build a secure grip for your basic liftd.
[/quote]
A hook grip is when you pin the thumb to the bar with the other 4 fingers. In a regular grip the thumb is over the fingers, in the hook grip it’s the opposite.
So is the hook grip similar or the same as a false grip like gymnasts use? Excuse my ignorance.
[/quote]
CT, I’ve been following a Upper/Lower Split lately, Saturday is my Upper day and i’ve been basically splitting the volume up into two sessions. Last few weeks…
A.M 1. Standing Press 3reps-Force Spectrum Ramp(usually ends up to be 6-7 sets)
2. Weighted pull-ups 3reps Ramping(usualy 5-8 sets)
P.M 1. BBIncline Press 3reps Ramping up to MFP
2. Either a DB row or a BBShrug
3. Band Face Pull
First, does this seem ok on paper, second, any ideas on some variations i could do? lately i’ve thrown in some light sled work in between sessions and i have 2 FINiBARs 2scoops Anaconda and 2scoops MAG-10 for each session. But any kind of ideas you have to keep things fresh i’d love to hear coach.
Thibs was wondering what style of benching do you prefer, elbows tucked close grip, shoulder width slight flare, wide grip slight flare or basically all flare? Does it vary depending on incline, flat, decline?
Was wondering about my upper body perfomance day, what about
top half shoulder press
top half incline bench press
sticking point flat bench
top half bench press
then trap, rhomboid, and tricep work?
[quote]Daveski7 wrote:
Thibs was wondering what style of benching do you prefer, elbows tucked close grip, shoulder width slight flare, wide grip slight flare or basically all flare? Does it vary depending on incline, flat, decline?
Was wondering about my upper body perfomance day, what about
top half shoulder press
top half incline bench press
sticking point flat bench
top half bench press
then trap, rhomboid, and tricep work?[/quote]
- I personally bench press this way:
1.1 Elbows semi-tucked in (roughly a 45 degrees angle to the torso)
1.2 Traps contracted hard (imagine doing a shrug) during the execution of the whole movement
1.3 Feet relatively far away so that I can drive with my heels
1.4 Decent arch, but not an excessive one
1.5 I use a relatively narrow grip (about an inch wider than shoulder width)
-
All my pressing are done in a similar way. Heck, I even initiate my military presses by shruging
-
It is a decent workout, but I would only do it for half the workouts (I recommend 2 upper body performance days) the only one I would include full range of motion exercises otherwise you will have very little, if any transfer to the full movements.
Also consider that lifts from pins (a deadstop) are more neurally demanding than regular lifts so 4 partial lifts from pins will require that you pay close attention to how your body is reacting.
- You don’t have to work all the assistance muscles in the same workout. You can work half of them in the first upper body perfomance session and the other half in the second session. I’m all about doing more volume. But always keep in mind the finances of training: sometimes “investing” in one more exercise might lead to worst performances on the next 1 or 2 workouts, which is not a good investment.