Thibs New Training Questions #3

Training
981

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]Cyrus_99 wrote:
Also, the program listed isn’t the end-all beat-all either. Based upon mechanics, dominance issues etc. the program wouuld be slightly different. A lot of people are making gains this way because it is sort of a paradigm shift. How many ppl u know do vertical presses before horizontal on avrage?[/quote]

None, but they should. It is probably because the bench press is the no.1 ego lift in the world. And people want to do it first in their workout to lift more weight to impress others. But this set-up is probably responsible for a lot of shoulders issues.

Back in the old days of Grimek, Stanko, Davies and Kono (olympic lifters who were also Mr.America) the OVERHEAD PRESS, not the bench press, was the “measure of a man”. And as such they trained the overhead press primarily and the best press, if it was done, was a mere assistance exercise to the press.[/quote]

The only reason I do it this way is because, although I have a pl background, I noticed that my shoulder strength sucked and I had turtle back. I began hitting top to bottom and things started to move.

982

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]thoughts1053 wrote:
[
Traps, rhomboids and triceps work

Etc.[/quote]

What would you consider Rhomboid work? i pretty sure like face pulls and band work right? And everything is done in less than an hour? haha thats a pretty fast Auto Regulation.

983

[quote]Daveski7 wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]thoughts1053 wrote:
[
Traps, rhomboids and triceps work

Etc.[/quote]

What would you consider Rhomboid work? i pretty sure like face pulls and band work right? And everything is done in less than an hour? haha thats a pretty fast Auto Regulation.
[/quote]

This workout normally lasts more than 1 hour. For rhomboid work I like face pulls, blast straps rear delts, DB rear delts, Elbows out DB rowing.

984

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]Daveski7 wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]thoughts1053 wrote:
[
Traps, rhomboids and triceps work

Etc.[/quote]

What would you consider Rhomboid work? i pretty sure like face pulls and band work right? And everything is done in less than an hour? haha thats a pretty fast Auto Regulation.
[/quote]

This workout normally lasts more than 1 hour. For rhomboid work I like face pulls, blast straps rear delts, DB rear delts, Elbows out DB rowing.[/quote]

Ok i was wondering what you meant when you said Rhomboid work in the “Football Pads area” i was like Uhhhh. But would you do a max rep circuit for the other things after the peformance pressing movements?

And i am running out of MD, and need protein so the Anaconda value pack is basically the protocol minus the extra MAG-10, alpha-gpc, and SWF right? but you still have basicall the smae nutrient breakdown?

985

CT,

Yesterday I did a push workout in the AM and then I did a couple of eccentric-less pushing exercises at night. I don’t have a prowler or sled so I had to think of some weird ways to do the eccentric-less work.

I did almost like a guillotine press from pins and when I finished extension I put the barbell on the j-hooks (I placed the J-hooks up far enough so that I kind of had to use my scapula to put the barbell back on them when in full extension), then did kind of a negative zercher squat to put the BB back on the pins and repeated this for 8-12 reps for 3 sets.

The second exercise I did was dips starting on the knees with blast straps and when I reached full (or close to full) extension I just stood up and repeated this for 12-15 reps for 3 sets.

Are these exercise choices OK? What do you think?

986

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]Cyrus_99 wrote:
Also, the program listed isn’t the end-all beat-all either. Based upon mechanics, dominance issues etc. the program wouuld be slightly different. A lot of people are making gains this way because it is sort of a paradigm shift. How many ppl u know do vertical presses before horizontal on avrage?[/quote]

None, but they should. It is probably because the bench press is the no.1 ego lift in the world. And people want to do it first in their workout to lift more weight to impress others. But this set-up is probably responsible for a lot of shoulders issues.

Back in the old days of Grimek, Stanko, Davies and Kono (olympic lifters who were also Mr.America) the OVERHEAD PRESS, not the bench press, was the “measure of a man”. And as such they trained the overhead press primarily and the best press, if it was done, was a mere assistance exercise to the press.[/quote]

I seem to remember Arnold using standing military presses as upper pec work. Didn’t Reg Park do something similar? Man, gotta love that old school.

987

Thibs, Are you finding out even more so lately now that the high carbs pre/during the workout are superior to post-workout?

988

CT-

If you are doing all the pushing exercises then traps, rhomboids and triceps work afterwards. What do you have left for pull day? Do you only train lats and the foundation muscles on this day?

989

[quote]Italiano wrote:
Thibs, Are you finding out even more so lately now that the high carbs pre/during the workout are superior to post-workout?
[/quote]

Is this question coming from 2 years ago? I’ve been advocating pre-workout carbs for 2 years and even gave a seminar about it last year… so yeah, I guess that answers your question!

990

[quote]Cyrus_99 wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]Cyrus_99 wrote:
Also, the program listed isn’t the end-all beat-all either. Based upon mechanics, dominance issues etc. the program wouuld be slightly different. A lot of people are making gains this way because it is sort of a paradigm shift. How many ppl u know do vertical presses before horizontal on avrage?[/quote]

None, but they should. It is probably because the bench press is the no.1 ego lift in the world. And people want to do it first in their workout to lift more weight to impress others. But this set-up is probably responsible for a lot of shoulders issues.

Back in the old days of Grimek, Stanko, Davies and Kono (olympic lifters who were also Mr.America) the OVERHEAD PRESS, not the bench press, was the “measure of a man”. And as such they trained the overhead press primarily and the best press, if it was done, was a mere assistance exercise to the press.[/quote]

I seem to remember Arnold using standing military presses as upper pec work. Didn’t Reg Park do something similar? Man, gotta love that old school.[/quote]

You can learn much more reading training books from the 40s, 50s 60s and early 70s than from the “modern” training books. Old-timers were not afraid to try new stuff, even if it looked funny or went against common beliefs. Nowadays in the bodybuilding world, people are so stuck with their traditions that the slightest deviation from normal is seen as heresy!

991

[quote]thrasher_09 wrote:
CT-

If you are doing all the pushing exercises then traps, rhomboids and triceps work afterwards. What do you have left for pull day? Do you only train lats and the foundation muscles on this day?[/quote]

Foundation is lats, biceps, calves, abs and some forearms

BTW, no need to train all the assistance muscles on the same performance day. You could do triceps one day; rhomboids and traps the next.

992

What is the reasoning behind having facepulls etc. on push-day, and not together with pulls?

993

Coach CT,

Do you ever incorporate reverse grip bench press into your pressing day? It seems to be harder on my shoulder joint than regular bench, but I do have worn shoulders already.

994

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]Cyrus_99 wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]Cyrus_99 wrote:
Also, the program listed isn’t the end-all beat-all either. Based upon mechanics, dominance issues etc. the program wouuld be slightly different. A lot of people are making gains this way because it is sort of a paradigm shift. How many ppl u know do vertical presses before horizontal on avrage?[/quote]

None, but they should. It is probably because the bench press is the no.1 ego lift in the world. And people want to do it first in their workout to lift more weight to impress others. But this set-up is probably responsible for a lot of shoulders issues.

Back in the old days of Grimek, Stanko, Davies and Kono (olympic lifters who were also Mr.America) the OVERHEAD PRESS, not the bench press, was the “measure of a man”. And as such they trained the overhead press primarily and the best press, if it was done, was a mere assistance exercise to the press.[/quote]

I seem to remember Arnold using standing military presses as upper pec work. Didn’t Reg Park do something similar? Man, gotta love that old school.[/quote]

You can learn much more reading training books from the 40s, 50s 60s and early 70s than from the “modern” training books. Old-timers were not afraid to try new stuff, even if it looked funny or went against common beliefs. Nowadays in the bodybuilding world, people are so stuck with their traditions that the slightest deviation from normal is seen as heresy![/quote]

I remember you saying that before, and actually recommending a few books. I still haven’t found many of them, only the siff colaboration. The others I cannot find in english. I have found some translations of medveyev and verkoshansky articles. These are great reads, and really bring it back to foundations and principles. I am so much better of a coach and personal trainer because of some of your advice. Thanks a lot.

995

[quote]Sir Liftsalot wrote:
Coach CT,

Do you ever incorporate reverse grip bench press into your pressing day? It seems to be harder on my shoulder joint than regular bench, but I do have worn shoulders already. [/quote]

I never use this movement or have anybody use it.

996

[quote]liffy wrote:
What is the reasoning behind having facepulls etc. on push-day, and not together with pulls? [/quote]

It’s technically not called a"push day". In this split I call it the “upper body performance day”. Basically it consists of pressing for performance and the muscle directly supporting that function, specifically the shoulder girdle musculature which includes the rhomboids, traps and rotator cuffs.

And the other “upper body” day is NOT called a pulling day. It’s a “foundation day” where you train the lats, biceps, abs, calves and some forearms.

Not the same as the traditional push-pull-leg split

997

Ah, thanks for clearing that up. I guess I sort of got this split confused with a regular push-pull-legs-routine.

998

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]thrasher_09 wrote:
CT-

If you are doing all the pushing exercises then traps, rhomboids and triceps work afterwards. What do you have left for pull day? Do you only train lats and the foundation muscles on this day?[/quote]

Foundation is lats, biceps, calves, abs and some forearms

BTW, no need to train all the assistance muscles on the same performance day. You could do triceps one day; rhomboids and traps the next.[/quote]

Thank you for clearing this up makes much more sense now! do you normally train these assistance muscles as a max rep circuit? Can you also rotate a chest max rep circuit after all of the pressing?

999

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]thoughts1053 wrote:

[quote]Cyrus_99 wrote:

[quote]Liv92 wrote:
Alright thanks guys I did it today for the first time and it felt good, after the workout i felt energetic, and by the time i got to my bench on the last set i got the weight i would have gotten any other day on a regular workout (doing flat bench first) for 3 reps or maybe one rep short. So i’m actually expecting good results.

One more question though, this might be a little silly but I need to be sure so my mind can be clear.

Every upper body performance you do Military/Incline/Fat right? Or would one of the days Military/Incline/Fat be with barbell the next with dumbbells? [/quote]

Not sure what the official word is, but I would personally avoid doing the same exercises that frequently. Usually, there is a variant used, such as partials, dbs, etc…[/quote]

Yeah, I think the movement stays the same (going from vertical, incline, horizontal). Exercises and techniques can change.[/quote]

Yeah, but it’s not always the same exercises.

For example it might be…

SESSION 1
Standing military press
Incline press
Flat bench press
Decline bench press

Traps, rhomboids and triceps work

SESSION 2
Push press
High incline bench press
Close-grip bench press
Dips

Traps, rhomboids and triceps work

SESSION 3
Top half seated shoulder press from pins
Top half incline bench from pins
Top half bench press from pins
Bench lockout (higher pins)

Traps, rhomboids and triceps work

SESSION 4
Standing DB press
Incline DB press
Flat DB press
Decline DB press

Traps, rhomboids and triceps work

SESSION 5
Standing military press
Hammer strength incline press
Flat bench press
Hammer strength decline press

Etc.[/quote]

CT, I know you’ve talked before at length about using an “activation” method (bands, partial reps off pins, etc…) to begin the workout. You also said in the neural activation livespill that using the same activation method too often makes it less effective.

So, my question is, would you alternate between say bands and partials off pins on a workout to workout basis? Or, is there some other test/performance measure that you would use to determine when to use what activation technique?

Also, I am assuming that the activation method is not included in the above list of exercises. Am I wrong, or does it depend on what method is being used (for instance bands might be supersetted with the exercises, ala Daryll’s back workouts, while partial off pins would be separate)?

1000

Wasn’t sure where to post this, but I thought you and the readers may find this interesting…

Interesting thing occurred during a neural charge workout today…about half way through, I decided to test my vertical jump (using the a Vertec). I haven’t officially tested my vertical jump since the 2001 NFL combine (which at the time was 34" at a bodyweight of 295)…today, testing it for the first time in almost 9 years, it was 37" at a bodyweight of 245. I’ve been training as an “athlete” for the last 17 years, but my point is, that CT’s philosophy of HTH and all that it entails, will lead to both a high performance, and aesthetics. In my opinion, CT is WAY AHEAD of other well known coaches in this regard.

For all the young guys and beginners out there (especially athletes/ex-athletes or those who enjoy more athletically based workouts), listen to what he has to say.