Thibs New Training Questions #3

Training
541

[quote]andersons wrote:
Coach, is there any truth to the idea that doing lots of lower-load reps helps strengthen the joints?[/quote]

It has some merit in that the tendons lack vascularization and very high reps (50+) can help with that problem over the long term. But I personally prefer sled dragging to solve the problem (for the lower body at least).

I have used sled pulls and prowler work for knee rehab in several guys.

Now, as far as ‘‘strengthening’’ the joints, no, high reps will not help you with that. It can help the tendons recover faster, but it will not make them stronger. Heavy lifting, eccentric worki and partial rep work is the best way to strengthen the tendons.

542

[quote]toots27mkc wrote:
What’s your take on the standing behind the neck press? I’ve been doing them almost every week without any problems. However, I constantly read that they may cause problems down the road.

I don’t have any shoulder issues, nor do I want any. But, I like the standing BNP and would like to keep it as it helps my mobility and seems like a good medial deltoid exercise(my medials grew a bit when I started them.) I also make sure to go down as far as possible and not cheat with too much weight(perfect rep). As long as my mobility stays good and I take my Flameout(haha), do you think I will run into any problems? Obviously, I’m going to see how it continues to feel, but I was wondering your opinion.[/quote]

I don’t like to use this exercise. And if I include it in a program it will only be for 3-4 weeks, no more.

The risk to benefit ratio is not worth it IMHO.

But then again a lot of strong folks have used this exercise profusely.

But don’t forget that someone who is built for strength will generally have the tendon strength and joint stability to go with their strength and can thus tolerate more damaging exercises better than most people.

543

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]toots27mkc wrote:
What’s your take on the standing behind the neck press? I’ve been doing them almost every week without any problems. However, I constantly read that they may cause problems down the road.

I don’t have any shoulder issues, nor do I want any. But, I like the standing BNP and would like to keep it as it helps my mobility and seems like a good medial deltoid exercise(my medials grew a bit when I started them.) I also make sure to go down as far as possible and not cheat with too much weight(perfect rep). As long as my mobility stays good and I take my Flameout(haha), do you think I will run into any problems? Obviously, I’m going to see how it continues to feel, but I was wondering your opinion.[/quote]

I don’t like to use this exercise. And if I include it in a program it will only be for 3-4 weeks, no more.

The risk to benefit ratio is not worth it IMHO.

But then again a lot of strong folks have used this exercise profusely.

But don’t forget that someone who is built for strength will generally have the tendon strength and joint stability to go with their strength and can thus tolerate more damaging exercises better than most people.[/quote]

In your “Shoulders Overhaul”-article you recommend the Snatch-Grip Behind the Neck Press for shoulder development. Is this still your opinion or has it changed concerning this exercise?

544

[quote]Kaito wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]toots27mkc wrote:
What’s your take on the standing behind the neck press? I’ve been doing them almost every week without any problems. However, I constantly read that they may cause problems down the road.

I don’t have any shoulder issues, nor do I want any. But, I like the standing BNP and would like to keep it as it helps my mobility and seems like a good medial deltoid exercise(my medials grew a bit when I started them.) I also make sure to go down as far as possible and not cheat with too much weight(perfect rep). As long as my mobility stays good and I take my Flameout(haha), do you think I will run into any problems? Obviously, I’m going to see how it continues to feel, but I was wondering your opinion.[/quote]

I don’t like to use this exercise. And if I include it in a program it will only be for 3-4 weeks, no more.

The risk to benefit ratio is not worth it IMHO.

But then again a lot of strong folks have used this exercise profusely.

But don’t forget that someone who is built for strength will generally have the tendon strength and joint stability to go with their strength and can thus tolerate more damaging exercises better than most people.[/quote]

In your “Shoulders Overhaul”-article you recommend the Snatch-Grip Behind the Neck Press for shoulder development. Is this still your opinion or has it changed concerning this exercise? [/quote]

As I mentionned ‘‘if I include it in a program it will only be for 3-4 weeks’’. I didn’t say that I would never use it. Only that I rarely use it.

545

thanks for that quick response :slight_smile:

546

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]awaken279 wrote:
Hi CT,
I have a friend that is approx, 115 lbs, 5’'5 and very lean (a girl obviously). She want to lose some shoulder size/width. So she asked me how she could lose some muscle in her shoulders while preserving the rest of the body. I suggested her to do high reps stuff for shoulders (15-20) but I would like to know your opinion about that case.

Thanks a lot ![/quote]

You can’t make a muscle smaller via weight training, regardless of how light it is. A muscle either hypertrophies or atrophies (or stay the same). Any type of resistance training will tend to make the muscles gain size or at the worst, maintain size but not make them smaller.[/quote]

What type of training would make her muscle atrophies? If her muscle atrophies, will it stay striated, full and good-looking ?

Thanks !

547

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]awaken279 wrote:
Hi CT,
I have a friend that is approx, 115 lbs, 5’'5 and very lean (a girl obviously). She want to lose some shoulder size/width. So she asked me how she could lose some muscle in her shoulders while preserving the rest of the body. I suggested her to do high reps stuff for shoulders (15-20) but I would like to know your opinion about that case.

Thanks a lot ![/quote]

You can’t make a muscle smaller via weight training, regardless of how light it is. A muscle either hypertrophies or atrophies (or stay the same). Any type of resistance training will tend to make the muscles gain size or at the worst, maintain size but not make them smaller.[/quote]

What type of training would make her muscle atrophies? If her muscle atrophies, will it stay striated, full and good-looking ?

Thanks !

548

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]awaken279 wrote:
Hi CT,
I have a friend that is approx, 115 lbs, 5’'5 and very lean (a girl obviously). She want to lose some shoulder size/width. So she asked me how she could lose some muscle in her shoulders while preserving the rest of the body. I suggested her to do high reps stuff for shoulders (15-20) but I would like to know your opinion about that case.

Thanks a lot ![/quote]

You can’t make a muscle smaller via weight training, regardless of how light it is. A muscle either hypertrophies or atrophies (or stay the same). Any type of resistance training will tend to make the muscles gain size or at the worst, maintain size but not make them smaller.[/quote]

What type of training would make her muscle atrophies? If her muscle atrophies, will it stay striated, full and good-looking ? Would she just have to overtrain her shoulders while in caloric deficit?

Thanks !

549

Coach

I’m training under your guidelines (ramp up, 1-3-5 reps, IBB and so on) for 4 months. I tried to do a regular program (6-8 reps, 8-10 reps), I felt really bad:

· Not mind muscle conection
· Poor resistance
· No good contraction
· SNC overload

I feel my best training approach is following all this methods you are teeach us. I improved muscle mass but I have to do my best in strengh. I have to learn more and more about strengh.

For your trainers or yourself, is it normal this rteaction when come back to typical schemes and splits?

550

[quote]michell wrote:
Coach

I’m training under your guidelines (ramp up, 1-3-5 reps, IBB and so on) for 4 months. I tried to do a regular program (6-8 reps, 8-10 reps), I felt really bad:

· Not mind muscle conection
· Poor resistance
· No good contraction
· SNC overload

I feel my best training approach is following all this methods you are teeach us. I improved muscle mass but I have to do my best in strengh. I have to learn more and more about strengh.

For your trainers or yourself, is it normal this rteaction when come back to typical schemes and splits?[/quote]

We don’t go back to ‘‘typical schemes’’.

I do change the training split, we don’t always use a specialization approach. But we keep the core principles of High Threshold Hypertrophy.

One approach that we currently use is perform the main exercise for a muscle group with micro-ramping, and then pick 3-5 assistance exercises which are performed for 1 or 2 max rep sets.

551

[quote]awaken279 wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]awaken279 wrote:
Hi CT,
I have a friend that is approx, 115 lbs, 5’'5 and very lean (a girl obviously). She want to lose some shoulder size/width. So she asked me how she could lose some muscle in her shoulders while preserving the rest of the body. I suggested her to do high reps stuff for shoulders (15-20) but I would like to know your opinion about that case.

Thanks a lot ![/quote]

You can’t make a muscle smaller via weight training, regardless of how light it is. A muscle either hypertrophies or atrophies (or stay the same). Any type of resistance training will tend to make the muscles gain size or at the worst, maintain size but not make them smaller.[/quote]

What type of training would make her muscle atrophies? If her muscle atrophies, will it stay striated, full and good-looking ? Would she just have to overtrain her shoulders while in caloric deficit?

Thanks !
[/quote]

You might have missed this: ‘‘You can’t make a muscle smaller via weight training, regardless of how light it is.’’

In other words you can’t atrophy a muscle by training it. The approach you mention, overtraining the shoulders while in a caloric deficit might ‘‘work’’, but it is not the training that would cause the atrophy, but rather the caloric deficit.

The problem is that she would have to keep it up for a very long time. Transient overtraining leads to surcompensation once you don’t overtrain anymore. So while her shoulders might ‘‘look’’ smaller, they will end up bigger once she get back to normal training.

My best recommendation is to simply avoid working the shoulder directly and minimize the use of exercises where the shoulders play an assistance role.

552

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

One approach that we currently use is perform the main exercise for a muscle group with micro-ramping, and then pick 3-5 assistance exercises which are performed for 1 or 2 max rep sets.[/quote]

Interesting… can you show an example with more details ?

553

[quote] wrote:
[/quote]

Thib, I hope I’m not stepping on any toes!!!

Thy, Below is a workout Thibs did that I believe is an example. Note that Thib also qualified this workout by stating…

“THE FOLLOWING IS NOT THE PROGRAM… IT IS A WORKOUT I DID MYSELF WHICH SHARES SOME SIMILARITIES WITH THE FUTURE PROGRAM”

Yesterday was a push workout

A. Bench press
Type: Extended work (very high number of sets)
Technique: Ramping with micro-ramping
Intensity zone: 3 reps per set starting at roughly 60% of maximum, working up to max force set.

Basically I started with 60%, ramped up by 10lbs per set for 4 sets then switched to micro-ramping (5lbs jumps per set) until I hit the max force point… this ended up being 9 sets with the micro-ramping for a total of 13 sets.

Once I reached max force I added 10lbs and did a set of 2 reps. This wasn’t a maximum efforts, but it was roughly my max load point (max weight I can use without having a sticking point) for the day.

B. Triceps hell variation (adapted from Tate - Defranco)
Type: max rep work
Technique: drop set through variation in range of motion

*I used roughly 70% of the max load I reached on exercise A

I only did ONE set of this exercise. That ONE set was comprised of 3 ‘‘mini-sets’’ with a different range of motion. THERE WAS NO REST BETWEEN MINI-SETS (it was like one continous set).

Mini-set 1: close-grip bench
Mini-set 2: close-grip bench on 3 boards
Mini-set 3: close-grip bench on 5 boards

The first and second mini-sets were conducted to the point where acceleration dropped. The last mini-set was ended 1 rep short of total failure.

C. Dips (no added weight)
Type: complete contraction fatigue
Technique: emphasis on all three types of contraction

Again, I only did ONE set. Like with the preceding technique, that set was divided into 3 ‘‘mini-sets’’. Those 3 mini-sets were done without rest, as one continous set.

Mini-set 1: Dips to the point of stopped acceleration
Mini-set 2: Eccentric-only dips (5 seconds eccentric) performed until slight loss of control
Mini-set 3: Isometric hold for time, elbows at 90 degrees

D. Machine lateral raise
Type: Max reps work
Technique: drop set

Only did ONE set.Like with the preceding technique, that set was divided into 3 ‘‘mini-sets’’. Those 3 mini-sets were done without rest, as one continous set.

Mini-set 1: Using a weight that you can do 4-6 times… stop one rep short of failure
Mini-set 2: Reduce weight just enough so that you can get 4-6 more reps… stop one short of failure
Mini-set 3: Reduce weight just enough to get 2-3 more reps. Go to failure.

554

I know CT has answered this before but cannot seem to find it, any input would be appreciated. I am currently using 5/3/1 as my training template. Is utilising ramping etc during assistance work and simply doing the max rep sets as presribed still the optimal approach in your opinion CT? Thanks.

555

Noticed something I found interesting today. I worked out twice because I was pressed for time, with a few hours inbetween sessions.

I did:

E-Z Bar Curl
force spectrum ramping, 6 sets of 3
Reverse E-Z bar Curl
force spectrum ramping, 6 sets of 3

CGBP
force spectrum ramping, 6 sets of 3
Dead Stop Skullcrushers
force spectrum ramping, 6 sets of 3

A few hours later:
Dead Stop CGBP with Bands
force spectrum ramping, 6 sets of 3
Decline Db tricep Extensions
force spectrum ramping, 6 sets of 3

Preacher Curls
force spectrum ramping, 6 sets of 3
Hammer Curls
force spectrum ramping, 6 sets of 3

The second session the weights felt much lighter even though I kept them the same, the dead stop CGBPs WITH bands felt lighter than normal CGBPs… Could doing two sessions like this prime the muscles and the nervous system for the second workout?

556

[quote]Amonero wrote:
Noticed something I found interesting today. I worked out twice because I was pressed for time, with a few hours inbetween sessions.

I did:

E-Z Bar Curl
force spectrum ramping, 6 sets of 3
Reverse E-Z bar Curl
force spectrum ramping, 6 sets of 3

CGBP
force spectrum ramping, 6 sets of 3
Dead Stop Skullcrushers
force spectrum ramping, 6 sets of 3

A few hours later:
Dead Stop CGBP with Bands
force spectrum ramping, 6 sets of 3
Decline Db tricep Extensions
force spectrum ramping, 6 sets of 3

Preacher Curls
force spectrum ramping, 6 sets of 3
Hammer Curls
force spectrum ramping, 6 sets of 3

The second session the weights felt much lighter even though I kept them the same, the dead stop CGBPs WITH bands felt lighter than normal CGBPs… Could doing two sessions like this prime the muscles and the nervous system for the second workout?

[/quote]

No question! When I have two sessions during the day, the second one is always better provided that I didn’t cause too much muscular and metabolic fatigue during the first workout.

When I competed in olympic lifting I had my best results when training the morning of an afternoon contest.

557

Very interesting!

I’ll try twice daily workouts of that format. I’m in a fatloss phase and have trained under a caloric deficit for five months, losing 21 kg in the process. It was very refreshing to find a way to do more work that was stimulating, not draining like high rep lactic work and that I feel can potentially increase fat loss!

How’s this plan?

05.00 - Wakeup, 1 l green tea, 30-45 minute walk
05.30 - 30 g whey/ EFAs, creatine
06.00- Workout A
06.45- 30 g whey/ EFAs, creatine
07.00-
07.30- Breakfast, eggs, red meat, etc
11.30- Lunch, eggs, red meat etc
12.00
13.00
14.00
15.00- 30 g whey/ EFAS
15.30- Workout B
16.30- 30 g whey/EFAS
17.30-Lean meat
18.00
19.00
20.00- 30 g whey/casein
21.00 - Bed

558

When doing olympic weightlifting twice a day, do you recommend a similar workout in the afternoon/evening as was done in the morning? I love olympic weightlifting and usually mix it in randomly. Now for a few weeks, I want to start doing bodybuilding during the week with a day off and olympic on Saturday and Sunday. . .

559

Thib,

Is it fine if my lower back goes from arched to flat (not rounded, just flat), if I squat very deep ?

560

[quote]Thy. wrote:
Thib,

Is it fine if my lower back goes from arched to flat (not rounded, just flat), if I squat very deep ?[/quote]

No