Coach,
My skinfold ratios for biosig were 1.3 for Umbilical Triceps and 1.7 for subscap triceps which were my 2 highest readings at 177lbs and 6.9bf. I’m on the insulin protocol now but after reading the post on insulin and cortisol don’t know what I should do. After taking my post workout shake I crash about an hour later so if this increases cortisol should I just forget carbs post workout and just spread carbs out over six meals. Not sure what to do at all right now.
Thanks
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
curranni wrote:
RobNZ wrote:
curranni wrote:
caladin wrote:
acudave wrote:
CT,
Coach Poliquin recommends glycine for reduction of cortisol. 5-20g? How is this used. With meals, before, after, empty stomach, before sleep, spread out during the day, etc? Will you be doing any seminars soon? Dave Brewer
I wouldnt mine knowing about this too.
the 5-20grams is PWO, thib is the 1st person i heard of using the glycine every meal but it sounds great.
the liver detox is basically what it says.
its a detoxification of the liver. it takes 42days to complete.
the liver is the master metaboliser of the body.
i wouldnt recommend it with out proper guidance. it is a rough ride
with regards to the liver detox, what are the signs that you would need to detox? i have heard achy joints but is there any particular test or signs that would indicate the need to detox?
thanks
waking up during the night, smelly urine,achy elbows or knees,some hormonal imbalances,bad breath,root canals in your teeth, headaches,migraines, the list goes on.
the metabolic typing people recommend quality castor oil… i dont know what CT or Charles think of that stuff to be honest but i have a collegue here in ireland and she found it great to use during the liver detox…i was hoping to ask Charles when i see him again.
I’ll call him to get his opinion on it
[/quote]
wow thats cool thanks
Oh yes. 
I’m a perfect example of that. My Biosgnature analysis showed that insulin is not a problem for me one bit – my subscap reading was so low relatively that the guy who did the reading said I’m probably the most carb-tolerant person he’s ever tested (and he’s tested thousands)! BUT, I’ve got a major cortisol problem. My umbilical reading was through the roof relative to the other readings. (And I always have trouble get rid of that last bit of lower ab fat).
[quote]greekdawg wrote:
Is it possible to still have elevated cortisol levels even if your insulin/blood sugar is for the most part, in check?
[/quote]
[quote]Damici wrote:
Oh yes. I’m a perfect example of that. My Biosgnature analysis showed that insulin is not a problem for me one bit – my subscap reading was so low relatively that the guy who did the reading said I’m probably the most carb-tolerant person he’s ever tested (and he’s tested thousands)! BUT, I’ve got a major cortisol problem. My umbilical reading was through the roof relative to the other readings. (And I always have trouble get rid of that last bit of lower ab fat).
greekdawg wrote:
Is it possible to still have elevated cortisol levels even if your insulin/blood sugar is for the most part, in check?
[/quote]
how have you gotten on since your visit??
have you applied the techniques since?
i met a guy when i was doing the PICP last year the guy was the most carb tolerant person i ever met.
he cant get lower or higher that 8% bf and he had charles test him at the biosignature.
lucky bastard haha
i get high off lettuce i m so carb intolerant
Hi,
I don’t know if you’ve checked out my thread on it in the Alpha cell, but I’ve been following the supplement protocol (and been sticking strictly to my diet and workouts) since the visit, and all is very well EXCEPT for one significant stumbling block: After 5 or 6 days of taking the glycine at the recommended dosage (10 grams 5 times per day, plus 15 grams post-workout), my stomach finally couldn’t tolerate it anymore and I threw up. No fun.
Mark said that means my liver is toxic, so I need to go on a liver detox program. He’s ordering the supplements for that, and today told me he should have them in on Monday or Tuesday (June 2nd or 3rd).
In the meantime, he said to lay off all glycine for 3 full days after the hurling incident (I did) and then start trying to add back in just 1 gram of glycine at a time to see how I tolerate it. I’ve been doing that and even 1 gram (!) makes me a little lightheaded for a while, but I can tolerate that for now.
Otherwise, I think I’ve gotten a tiny bit leaner since I started the protocol (and perhaps partly just because I’ve continued to stick to the cutting diet, i.e. low-carb regimen), but I haven’t had my second analysis yet, so I don’t know for sure.
My second caliper reading was going to be this Friday (May 30th), but since he’s not going to have the liver detox supps in until Tuesday or so, we’ll do it then (June 3rd). I’ll keep you posted on the results.
(And I’ll repost this info in my other thread).
[quote]curranni wrote:
Damici wrote:
Oh yes. I’m a perfect example of that. My Biosgnature analysis showed that insulin is not a problem for me one bit – my subscap reading was so low relatively that the guy who did the reading said I’m probably the most carb-tolerant person he’s ever tested (and he’s tested thousands)! BUT, I’ve got a major cortisol problem. My umbilical reading was through the roof relative to the other readings. (And I always have trouble get rid of that last bit of lower ab fat).
greekdawg wrote:
Is it possible to still have elevated cortisol levels even if your insulin/blood sugar is for the most part, in check?
how have you gotten on since your visit??
have you applied the techniques since?
i met a guy when i was doing the PICP last year the guy was the most carb tolerant person i ever met.
he cant get lower or higher that 8% bf and he had charles test him at the biosignature.
lucky bastard haha
i get high off lettuce i m so carb intolerant[/quote]
[quote]Damici wrote:
Hi,
I don’t know if you’ve checked out my thread on it in the Alpha cell, but I’ve been following the supplement protocol (and been sticking strictly to my diet and workouts) since the visit, and all is very well EXCEPT for one significant stumbling block: After 5 or 6 days of taking the glycine at the recommended dosage (10 grams 5 times per day, plus 15 grams post-workout), my stomach finally couldn’t tolerate it anymore and I threw up. No fun.
Mark said that means my liver is toxic, so I need to go on a liver detox program. He’s ordering the supplements for that, and today told me he should have them in on Monday or Tuesday (June 2nd or 3rd).
In the meantime, he said to lay off all glycine for 3 full days after the hurling incident (I did) and then start trying to add back in just 1 gram of glycine at a time to see how I tolerate it. I’ve been doing that and even 1 gram (!) makes me a little lightheaded for a while, but I can tolerate that for now.
Otherwise, I think I’ve gotten a tiny bit leaner since I started the protocol (and perhaps partly just because I’ve continued to stick to the cutting diet, i.e. low-carb regimen), but I haven’t had my second analysis yet, so I don’t know for sure.
My second caliper reading was going to be this Friday (May 30th), but since he’s not going to have the liver detox supps in until Tuesday or so, we’ll do it then (June 3rd). I’ll keep you posted on the results.
(And I’ll repost this info in my other thread).
curranni wrote:
Damici wrote:
Oh yes. I’m a perfect example of that. My Biosgnature analysis showed that insulin is not a problem for me one bit – my subscap reading was so low relatively that the guy who did the reading said I’m probably the most carb-tolerant person he’s ever tested (and he’s tested thousands)! BUT, I’ve got a major cortisol problem. My umbilical reading was through the roof relative to the other readings. (And I always have trouble get rid of that last bit of lower ab fat).
greekdawg wrote:
Is it possible to still have elevated cortisol levels even if your insulin/blood sugar is for the most part, in check?
how have you gotten on since your visit??
have you applied the techniques since?
i met a guy when i was doing the PICP last year the guy was the most carb tolerant person i ever met.
he cant get lower or higher that 8% bf and he had charles test him at the biosignature.
lucky bastard haha
i get high off lettuce i m so carb intolerant
[/quote]
thanks.sorry i didnt get a chance to peruse your thread i ll check it out at the weekend
By the way, Thib, I’m really looking forward to your upcoming articles on Biosignature. Thanks in advance for doing those.
And thanks for your input in the form of these threads (this one and The Thib Zone, and the others you’ve contributed to). Incredibly helpful.
I’m just confused how cortisol increases adiposity considering it also mobilizes fat for energy. Does it do so directly or in a roundabout way?
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
greekdawg wrote:
Is it possible to still have elevated cortisol levels even if your insulin/blood sugar is for the most part, in check?
Yes, hyperinsulinemia is only one of the things that can elevate cortisol. Cortisol is a stress hormone and will be released everytime the body is under physical/psychological/emotional/environmental stress.
greekdawg wrote:
Also, is it still possible to have a problem with insulin even if the bloodwork comes back ok?
Ok according to medical norms. Heck, in the UK (and even the US I think) a testosterone count of 300 is considered ‘‘normal’’ (normal range is 300 to 1200ng/dl… quite a wide variation!!!) however when athletes are concerned, 300 = castration. For optimal gains you need to be in the thousand and he top athletes have a natural test level of 1300-1400ng/dl.
This is just to show that what is medically ‘‘normal’’ doesn’t mean ‘‘optimal’’ and not even ‘‘healthy’’ in many cases![/quote]
This might be the wrong place to ask this so I appogise in advance. I am 31 years old and just got my total T test back and I am at 589 ng/dl. It is within in range, but not optimal like you said. What would you recommend I do to get up closer to 1000 ng/dl? Thanks.
Thib,
Did you notice any issues taking the insulin supplements while on a low carb diet?
I know some supps that work in a similar way ie r-ala, can lead to hypoglycemia and such without carbs. Do these supps have similar effects or do the work in a different way?
Thanks
Coach, have you taken the Bio Sig course yourself? If you have, would you recommend it?
[quote]Damici wrote:
Hi,
I don’t know if you’ve checked out my thread on it in the Alpha cell, but I’ve been following the supplement protocol (and been sticking strictly to my diet and workouts) since the visit, and all is very well EXCEPT for one significant stumbling block: After 5 or 6 days of taking the glycine at the recommended dosage (10 grams 5 times per day, plus 15 grams post-workout), my stomach finally couldn’t tolerate it anymore and I threw up. No fun.
[/quote]
Damici,
I read that Alpha Cell thread, it’s very interesting. CT put together some stuff for me regarding a cortisol protocol. I’m getting the stuff from Poliquin on Monday and I already have my Biotest stuff today.
Rather than go through the details you can just look at the training log. I’ll be on the cortisol protocol for 28 days in June. Thankfully CT got a hold of me before I really messed myself up.
http://www.T-Nation.com/tmagnum/readTopic.do?id=2127993
Unfortunately, we don’t have any Poliquin centers in Michigan so I won’t be able to get his info. I’ll be interested to see how yours goes.
Cool, thanks! I’ll check it out.
[quote]walleye49 wrote:
Damici wrote:
Hi,
I don’t know if you’ve checked out my thread on it in the Alpha cell, but I’ve been following the supplement protocol (and been sticking strictly to my diet and workouts) since the visit, and all is very well EXCEPT for one significant stumbling block: After 5 or 6 days of taking the glycine at the recommended dosage (10 grams 5 times per day, plus 15 grams post-workout), my stomach finally couldn’t tolerate it anymore and I threw up. No fun.
Damici,
I read that Alpha Cell thread, it’s very interesting. CT put together some stuff for me regarding a cortisol protocol. I’m getting the stuff from Poliquin on Monday and I already have my Biotest stuff today.
Rather than go through the details you can just look at the training log. I’ll be on the cortisol protocol for 28 days in June. Thankfully CT got a hold of me before I really messed myself up.
http://www.T-Nation.com/tmagnum/readTopic.do?id=2127993
Unfortunately, we don’t have any Poliquin centers in Michigan so I won’t be able to get his info. I’ll be interested to see how yours goes.
[/quote]
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Coach, have you taken the Bio Sig course yourself? If you have, would you recommend it? [/quote]
Yes I have. Best learning experience ever!
BTW, had my measures taken today. Most of them are stable (heck, I was measured at around 2.5% 3 weeks ago, not much room for drastic improvements) BUT my insulin sites (subscap and supra-iliac) have gone down again… the subscap went down to 8mm and the supra-iliac down to 3.9mm. So the protocol is still working.
CT,
Out of curiosity, suppose someone is on the Biosig insulin protocol, or the cortisol protocol, for example, and they ultimately reach their goals in terms of body comp, whatever they may be. (In your case I have to think you’re just about freakin’ there if you’re at 2.5%)!
Do you then at some point stop with the insulin-specific (or cortisol-specific) supplements because they might lose effectiveness over an extended period of time . . . or are they just not necessary after a while, assuming you keep your diet dialed in? Or do you perhaps just use them at a reduced dosage, or on an occasional basis?
I’m just curious as to what the ultimate end-game plays out as with regard to the usefulness and/or necessity of those specific supplements.
Thanks again.
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
MaximusB wrote:
Coach, have you taken the Bio Sig course yourself? If you have, would you recommend it?
Yes I have. Best learning experience ever!
BTW, had my measures taken today. Most of them are stable (heck, I was measured at around 2.5% 3 weeks ago, not much room for drastic improvements) BUT my insulin sites (subscap and supra-iliac) have gone down again… the subscap went down to 8mm and the supra-iliac down to 3.9mm. So the protocol is still working.[/quote]
[quote]Damici wrote:
CT,
Out of curiosity, suppose someone is on the Biosig insulin protocol, or the cortisol protocol, for example, and they ultimately reach their goals in terms of body comp, whatever they may be. (In your case I have to think you’re just about freakin’ there if you’re at 2.5%)!
Do you then at some point stop with the insulin-specific (or cortisol-specific) supplements because they might lose effectiveness over an extended period of time . . . or are they just not necessary after a while, assuming you keep your diet dialed in? Or do you perhaps just use them at a reduced dosage, or on an occasional basis?
I’m just curious as to what the ultimate end-game plays out as with regard to the usefulness and/or necessity of those specific supplements.
[/quote]
Anything that targets the pancreas (insulin) and thyroid can be maintained long term.
Cortisol, androgen and estrogen modulation have to be cycled.
Regarding the insulin protocol, it is a fact that the leaner you are, the more insulin sensitive you become. So in theory if you drop to very low levels of body fat (under 8%) you should be able to drop the insulin protocol provided that your maintain a proper nutritional strategy.
However, from experience, those who are genetically insulin resistant (those who have high suprailiac and subscapular folds BUT who have a higher subscap than supra-iliac fold) will tend to remain relatively insulin resistant, even at low body fat levels.
When these guys get lean they might not need to stay on the whole protocol but fish oil definitely should be kept it, and measures should be frequent… and if the subscap or suprailiac fold go up, get back on the protocol.
IMHO one should stay on the protocol as long as their subscap fold is over 7mm or so. If they are under 10% but still have a subscap fold of 9-12mm, then I’d say stay on the protocol.
Awesome. Thanks for the feedback CT.
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Damici wrote:
CT,
Out of curiosity, suppose someone is on the Biosig insulin protocol, or the cortisol protocol, for example, and they ultimately reach their goals in terms of body comp, whatever they may be. (In your case I have to think you’re just about freakin’ there if you’re at 2.5%)!
Do you then at some point stop with the insulin-specific (or cortisol-specific) supplements because they might lose effectiveness over an extended period of time . . . or are they just not necessary after a while, assuming you keep your diet dialed in? Or do you perhaps just use them at a reduced dosage, or on an occasional basis?
I’m just curious as to what the ultimate end-game plays out as with regard to the usefulness and/or necessity of those specific supplements.
Anything that targets the pancreas (insulin) and thyroid can be maintained long term.
Cortisol, androgen and estrogen modulation have to be cycled.
Regarding the insulin protocol, it is a fact that the leaner you are, the more insulin sensitive you become. So in theory if you drop to very low levels of body fat (under 8%) you should be able to drop the insulin protocol provided that your maintain a proper nutritional strategy.
However, from experience, those who are genetically insulin resistant (those who have high suprailiac and subscapular folds BUT who have a higher subscap than supra-iliac fold) will tend to remain relatively insulin resistant, even at low body fat levels.
When these guys get lean they might not need to stay on the whole protocol but fish oil definitely should be kept it, and measures should be frequent… and if the subscap or suprailiac fold go up, get back on the protocol.
IMHO one should stay on the protocol as long as their subscap fold is over 7mm or so. If they are under 10% but still have a subscap fold of 9-12mm, then I’d say stay on the protocol.[/quote]
[quote]Smartmartguy wrote:
seriously I could read this thread all day…
I just got some Fenuplex and Insulinomics last week. I can’t believe how well that stuff works! I mean, granted I have a terrible glucose metabolism but I seriously didn’t expect some herbal/plant extracts to have such a profound effect on my body composition in that short of a time.
I don’t have any decent calipers but I can just tell looking in the mirror…just how my love handles just shriveled up and died. And it doesn’t crash my blood sugar like ALA always seems to do.
This stuff is ridiculous…wtf has this stuff been for the past several years of my life?? 
It’s not a magic bullet i.e. you take it and magically improve body composition but if you’ve got your training and diet dialed in, the results you see are much better, much faster than without it. At least for me it’s been that way.
Poliquin’s a beast…nuff said…[/quote]
what??? Dude I’ve been checking his site every damn week for weeks now and I can’t find any Insulinomics in stock.
I did go ahead and order 2 bottles of Fenuplex a few weeks ago and I did see results on it. Nothing insane but they were there. I did 2 pills 3 times a day…20 day supply. If I can get some Isulinomics in stock Ill try the full protocol.
How much/often were you taking the pills? Also whats your height weight?
[quote]fathergll wrote:
what??? Dude I’ve been checking his site every damn week for weeks now and I can’t find any Insulinomics in stock.
I did go ahead and order 2 bottles of Fenuplex a few weeks ago and I did see results on it. Nothing insane but they were there. I did 2 pills 3 times a day…20 day supply. If I can get some Isulinomics in stock Ill try the full protocol.
How much/often were you taking the pills? Also whats your height weight? [/quote]
huh?? it’s showing in stock when I check?? You’re lookin at the “Insulin” section of Poliquin’s supps right?? I take 2 fenuplex with every meal and use the insulinomics 3 times a day with breakfast, lunch, dinner, one tablet at each of those meals.
I’m 6’5" and 254 lbs rt now. I’m probably going to stop using the insulinomics just because it’s so damn expensive. Fenuplex has a pretty good reputation on its own so I think I’d rather spend the money on that. I’m not trying to get shredded though like CT. 7-8% bodyfat would be fine by me.
What I notice most is how “full” I feel after meals when I use the Fenuplex. Even if I’m eating some carbs, which in the past would cause me to be hungry again a few hours later. If I take the fenuplex I never experience that hunger.
It’s like I said before though, it doesn’t do anything magical by itself, but it does seem to speed up progress if you’ve got your diet/training dialed in good.
[quote]Smartmartguy wrote:
huh?? it’s showing in stock when I check?? You’re lookin at the “Insulin” section of Poliquin’s supps right?? I take 2 fenuplex with every meal and use the insulinomics 3 times a day with breakfast, lunch, dinner, one tablet at each of those meals.
.[/quote]
Yeah Im looking at the Insulin section. I got the link below to confirm if we are on the right page. Its showing in stock for you??
I just checked again… it keeps saying “Out of stock. Will arrive soon.” when I push the add to cart button. Unless that is some kind of error and its lets you order it anyway. Are you seeing that message whey you push add to cart?
http://www.charlespoliquin.com/store/product.php?productid=16153&cat=269&page=1