CT,
1.) All things being equal do you think the biosig protocol is the fastest way to drop bodyfat??
The reason I ask, because it seems if one’s hormones are whacked out, it would be hard to lose fat efficiently even if dieting hard.
2.) Also, not to start a fight with another T-mag contributor, but what do you think of the v-diet??
CT,
If one were to begin the insulin protocol using Coach Poliquin’s supplements, and one were to also have some Green Tea Excellence from Poliquin’s website, how would you work the Green Tea into the regimen? Would you use it at the same time? How much/when each day?
Thanks in advance.
This is for anyone who has had a Biosignature or Coach… does the timing of the supp protocol… be it Insulin or Cortisol… does the timing of when the supps are taken make a signifcant difference… for instance… fenuplex or insulinomics… right before the meal, during meal or after the meal? I know… call me anal… but I would still like to know 
Thanks in advance.
[quote]shoelessjones wrote:
This is for anyone who has had a Biosignature or Coach… does the timing of the supp protocol… be it Insulin or Cortisol… does the timing of when the supps are taken make a signifcant difference… for instance… fenuplex or insulinomics… right before the meal, during meal or after the meal? I know… call me anal… but I would still like to know
Thanks in advance.[/quote]
General rule of thumb…
The supplements aimed at the nervous system should be taken on an empty stomach.
The other supplements are best taken ‘‘in a sandwhich’’… meaning that you start to eat your meal, then have your supplements, and finish eating your meal.
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
shoelessjones wrote:
This is for anyone who has had a Biosignature or Coach… does the timing of the supp protocol… be it Insulin or Cortisol… does the timing of when the supps are taken make a signifcant difference… for instance… fenuplex or insulinomics… right before the meal, during meal or after the meal? I know… call me anal… but I would still like to know
Thanks in advance.
General rule of thumb…
The supplements aimed at the nervous system should be taken on an empty stomach.
The other supplements are best taken ‘‘in a sandwhich’’… meaning that you start to eat your meal, then have your supplements, and finish eating your meal.[/quote]
Nice. Thanks Coach!
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
shoelessjones wrote:
This is for anyone who has had a Biosignature or Coach… does the timing of the supp protocol… be it Insulin or Cortisol… does the timing of when the supps are taken make a signifcant difference… for instance… fenuplex or insulinomics… right before the meal, during meal or after the meal? I know… call me anal… but I would still like to know
Thanks in advance.
General rule of thumb…
The supplements aimed at the nervous system should be taken on an empty stomach.
The other supplements are best taken ‘‘in a sandwhich’’… meaning that you start to eat your meal, then have your supplements, and finish eating your meal.[/quote]
Do you mind elaborating on why these rules? Is it because on an empty stomach, the cns supps will take effect faster? And on the “sandwich” method… so that the digestive process is already starting by the time the supps get there… thus helping with breakdown and absorption?
CT,
ARe you still on your biosig protocol? Or have you stopped?
I finally had my biosig done today, I think I will post my results in the Alpha cell.
Hey CT,
Awesome info in this thread so far.
I had a question. So I’ve been following the insulin protocol for around week now(I went through a 60 pill Fenuplex back in may by itself.) I have definitely noticed that I have had improvements on the love handle area. While I still have some work to go in the love handle area my biggest problem area seems to be the umbilical skinfold area. So from what I have read that deals with stress and poor sleep habits. I would have to say I have very little stress and I am getting consistent 8-9 hours a sleep a day on average. I do drink a lot of black coffee(20 oz) though and it tends to be later in the day. Sometimes I finish up the coffee within 5 hours of bedtime. Could coffee be screwing up my cortisol by drinking it late like that?(The reason I do it is because do studying later on in the day and wanted something to “get me alert”) Thats the one area where the fat has gone down the least for a long time now.
Also Im 5’9" 170 lbs, lean except for flab in those areas, get at least 5 hours in the gym a week.
if one had the same bodyfat distribution as yourself and a problem with insulin, but didnt have the money for all of the supplements on Poliquin’s site which ones do you feel are most important. already taking fish oil, but what do you feel is highest you would take it per day, per meal?
[quote]d22 wrote:
if one had the same bodyfat distribution as yourself and a problem with insulin, but didnt have the money for all of the supplements on Poliquin’s site which ones do you feel are most important. already taking fish oil, but what do you feel is highest you would take it per day, per meal?[/quote]
i personally would do fenuplex for the health benefits
thanks niallc,
do you feel that I could use a high dose of fish oil, fenugreek, and r-ala to get the same benefit of using fenuplex since money would be an issue. i have not done a lot of research into the other ingredients in fenuplex, but i know Poliqiun has perfected the quality and ratio of the ingredients. just trying to get the most bang for my buck when it comes to money i can spend on supplements.
Thanks again.
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
When you eat a high carbs meal (especially if it is from high glycemic carbs) then there will be a huge insulin spike. This spike can be excessive, especially in insulin resistant individuals. An excessive insulin spike will lead to reactive hypoglycemia/low blood sugar (you crash). The body obviously do not like this situation and will try to correct it by increasing blood sugar levels. It can do so either by increasing glucagon and/or cortisol. Cortisol is increased to mobilize glucose. Then if you again eat carbs you will once again have this reactive hypoglycemia and a subsequent increase in cortisol production.
[/quote]
In simple terms: does this mean that a HIGH GI/insulinogenic beverage(such as Surge) is in direct proportion with elevated cortisol levels, in described individuals!?
If so, what would be the best way to overcome those issues? I see the use of glutamine as a possible solution(?) for peri-workout shakes? BCAA(they are insulinogenic)
…One more question…
If a person has a low-GI carb meal, half an hour after the initial high GI beverage (i.e. pasta), therefore stopping the rapid blood sugar drop by providing steady energy supply are the negative impacts that high insulin in described individuals have on cortisol levels at least somewhat inhibited?
Personally, i feel a big crash, and lack of energy after high GI meals, and all of the other sings of elevated cortisol(ab fat, disrupted sleep, etc.), and I am unable to get my biosignature done(south-eastern europe), and also unable to get all of wanted and suitable supplements(same reasons), so i’m at least looking at what not to do that i’m doing right now that’s causing a problem(which is high GI drink such as SURGE), and possibly bettering other aspects.
P.S. I am fairly lean, i must say, just so you don’t think i’m a fat SOB who looks for excuses for not being a man in the kitchen.
[quote]Pergam_X wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
When you eat a high carbs meal (especially if it is from high glycemic carbs) then there will be a huge insulin spike. This spike can be excessive, especially in insulin resistant individuals. An excessive insulin spike will lead to reactive hypoglycemia/low blood sugar (you crash). The body obviously do not like this situation and will try to correct it by increasing blood sugar levels. It can do so either by increasing glucagon and/or cortisol. Cortisol is increased to mobilize glucose. Then if you again eat carbs you will once again have this reactive hypoglycemia and a subsequent increase in cortisol production.
In simple terms: does this mean that a HIGH GI/insulinogenic beverage(such as Surge) is in direct proportion with elevated cortisol levels, in described individuals!?
If so, what would be the best way to overcome those issues? I see the use of glutamine as a possible solution(?) for peri-workout shakes? BCAA(they are insulinogenic)
…One more question…
If a person has a low-GI carb meal, half an hour after the initial high GI beverage (i.e. pasta), therefore stopping the rapid blood sugar drop by providing steady energy supply are the negative impacts that high insulin in described individuals have on cortisol levels at least somewhat inhibited?
Personally, i feel a big crash, and lack of energy after high GI meals, and all of the other sings of elevated cortisol(ab fat, disrupted sleep, etc.), and I am unable to get my biosignature done(south-eastern europe), and also unable to get all of wanted and suitable supplements(same reasons), so i’m at least looking at what not to do that i’m doing right now that’s causing a problem(which is high GI drink such as SURGE), and possibly bettering other aspects.
P.S. I am fairly lean, i must say, just so you don’t think i’m a fat SOB who looks for excuses for not being a man in the kitchen.
[/quote]
High GI carbs post-workout tend to reduce cortisol. It’s one of the things you have contend with when low-carb dieting-reducing cortisol post-workout by other meands. Just don’t be spiking your insulin all throughout the day.
[quote]Pergam_X wrote:
simple terms: does this mean that a HIGH GI/insulinogenic beverage(such as Surge) is in direct proportion with elevated cortisol levels, in described individuals!?
[/quote]
Be careful here! While spiking insulin is often a very bad thing, spiking it post-workout can be a good thing and will actually blunt the effect of cortisol when consumed at that time.
I’m talking about high GI/II meals consumed under ‘‘non-active’’ situations.
[quote]Pergam_X wrote:
If so, what would be the best way to overcome those issues? I see the use of glutamine as a possible solution(?) for peri-workout shakes? BCAA(they are insulinogenic)
[/quote]
You want an insulin spike post-workout. Let me repeat that… you WANT an insulin spoke post-workout.
Wait, what was that? YOU WANT AN INSULIN SPIKE POST-WORKOUT.
At that time the spike will blunt cortisol (cortisol modulation is the most complex of all protocols) and initiate the anabolic process, so it is necessary for optimal recovery and growth.
Now, insulin can be spiked either with carbs or a mix of fast-absorbed protein (hydrolysate or isolate), BCAAs (or leucine), glycine and glutamine.
[quote]Pergam_X wrote:
…One more question…
If a person has a low-GI carb meal, half an hour after the initial high GI beverage (i.e. pasta), therefore stopping the rapid blood sugar drop by providing steady energy supply are the negative impacts that high insulin in described individuals have on cortisol levels at least somewhat inhibited?[/quote]
No.
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Pergam_X wrote:
simple terms: does this mean that a HIGH GI/insulinogenic beverage(such as Surge) is in direct proportion with elevated cortisol levels, in described individuals!?
Be careful here! While spiking insulin is often a very bad thing, spiking it post-workout can be a good thing and will actually blunt the effect of cortisol when consumed at that time.
I’m talking about high GI/II meals consumed under ‘‘non-active’’ situations.
Pergam_X wrote:
If so, what would be the best way to overcome those issues? I see the use of glutamine as a possible solution(?) for peri-workout shakes? BCAA(they are insulinogenic)
You want an insulin spike post-workout. Let me repeat that… you WANT an insulin spoke post-workout.
Wait, what was that? YOU WANT AN INSULIN SPIKE POST-WORKOUT.
At that time the spike will blunt cortisol (cortisol modulation is the most complex of all protocols) and initiate the anabolic process, so it is necessary for optimal recovery and growth.
Now, insulin can be spiked either with carbs or a mix of fast-absorbed protein (hydrolysate or isolate), BCAAs (or leucine), glycine and glutamine.
Pergam_X wrote:
…One more question…
If a person has a low-GI carb meal, half an hour after the initial high GI beverage (i.e. pasta), therefore stopping the rapid blood sugar drop by providing steady energy supply are the negative impacts that high insulin in described individuals have on cortisol levels at least somewhat inhibited?
No.
[/quote]
Thanks coach. I actually supposed you were talking about “non active” situations.
Of course i know about spiking the insulin post workout…I just neglected the fact that it actually blunts coirtisol at that moment…But what happens after?
If we put it this way…During your training, you put your body under stress, and cortisol gets elevated.
After training, you have your Surge-like shake(get cortisol down, due to insulin spike), and someone like me, who’s hyperinsulinemic, crashes(high insulin=low blood sugar) within 15-20 minutes.
And then cortisol sets in again, doesn’t it!?(body doesn’t like low blood sugar levels, and that’s exactly what happens)
If not following any kind of strict low-carb diet(gaining phase), low GI meal(20-30minutes later) consisting of starchy carbs(i.e. pasta, whole grains), should have positive effect on controlling blood sugar levels at that time, am i right?
[quote]d22 wrote:
if one had the same bodyfat distribution as yourself and a problem with insulin, but didnt have the money for all of the supplements on Poliquin’s site which ones do you feel are most important. already taking fish oil, but what do you feel is highest you would take it per day, per meal?[/quote]
I’m not CT, but I am a Biosig Practitioner in Austin, Texas.
In my opinion, and CT’s may differ, I think that taking as much Fenuplex as you can (max in my experience 2 capsules per meal, unless you are having a higher carb or cheat meal…in that case 3-4 pills can be used).
Fish Oil w/o a doubt is good for any health protocol BSM or not.
I have personally taken about 45g a day pretty consistently for almost two years.
Multi Intense IMO is also a great addition, as with lowered calories and poor food quality, you are going to be deficient in vitamins and minerals.
The Digest 3.0 is a must for most people. I differ with CT, as I prefer to eat more red meat (hey, I’m a Native Texan!) and less white until I get below 8%, then I drop the red meat to 2 or 3 times a week and add in tilapia instead.
Last, I love Pantethine Supreme as well. Pantethine and LCarnitine Fumurate do a great job at burning blood fats. I have noticed a HUGE difference adding that in.
I personally have cases of Fenuplex 120count and Pantethine Supreme in my cabinet that I keep for myself and my gf because I believe in those two products especially.
Keep in mind that this is a budget scenario. There are tons of different protocols, combinations, mixes, etc. It’s up to the skill and experience of the BSM practitioner and also the budget and skill/experience of the client as well.
I have had success with both minimalistic protocols and sledgehammer protocols in my practice. It really just depends on how screwed up the client is lmao.
If I posted some of my results from the database you guys would never believe me. I am still amazed that some of this stuff works. I learned the application first, and now I am researching the theory and it’s all quite amazing as you start to understand it.
If you want to know more about the science behind what Poliquin uses, especially the insulin products, go to Pubmed and type in Fenugreek and hyperinsulinemia, or you can do hyperinsulinemia with gymnemma sylvestre or bitter melon as well and you will find tons of research.
Thib, I hope you don’t mind me answering questions in your thread. I certainly don’t mean to hijack.
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Damici wrote:
CT,
Out of curiosity, suppose someone is on the Biosig insulin protocol, or the cortisol protocol, for example, and they ultimately reach their goals in terms of body comp, whatever they may be. (In your case I have to think you’re just about freakin’ there if you’re at 2.5%)!
Do you then at some point stop with the insulin-specific (or cortisol-specific) supplements because they might lose effectiveness over an extended period of time . . . or are they just not necessary after a while, assuming you keep your diet dialed in? Or do you perhaps just use them at a reduced dosage, or on an occasional basis?
I’m just curious as to what the ultimate end-game plays out as with regard to the usefulness and/or necessity of those specific supplements.
Anything that targets the pancreas (insulin) and thyroid can be maintained long term.
Cortisol, androgen and estrogen modulation have to be cycled.
Regarding the insulin protocol, it is a fact that the leaner you are, the more insulin sensitive you become. So in theory if you drop to very low levels of body fat (under 8%) you should be able to drop the insulin protocol provided that your maintain a proper nutritional strategy.
However, from experience, those who are genetically insulin resistant (those who have high suprailiac and subscapular folds BUT who have a higher subscap than supra-iliac fold) will tend to remain relatively insulin resistant, even at low body fat levels.
When these guys get lean they might not need to stay on the whole protocol but fish oil definitely should be kept it, and measures should be frequent… and if the subscap or suprailiac fold go up, get back on the protocol.
IMHO one should stay on the protocol as long as their subscap fold is over 7mm or so. If they are under 10% but still have a subscap fold of 9-12mm, then I’d say stay on the protocol.[/quote]
Thib- Even at 4.3% my subscap never dropped below 10mm. It was unreal, I looked like a road map everywhere, but I stil had a fat upper back. I have been told that banaba leaf helps with this.
You explained what I did 100% regarding measuring below 8%. I was taking measurements OBSESSIVELY, sometimes 2-3 times a day. The changes were so rapid it was unreal. Even though I am so IR, I could get freaky lean with fenugreek, magnesium, fish oil, MI w/o iron, and insulinomics. I did not take near the dosage of FG and Inomics at that time that you are taking right now. I am now on 2 caps fenuplex per meal, but unfortunately the engine and transmission are destroyed in my car so that has to be fixed before I can get back on that :-(.
I have also found that the test boosting stack that Poliquin has on his site works for 1 cycle like crazy, works about half as well the second cycle, and then doesn’t work well at all after that. I am currently contemplating some of the other rotations of adaptogens to get two of my older clients triceps down.
I have a question.
My right ab fat deposit seems more than my right (visually), postural distortion - my right QL is abit squished but towards my ASIS (pelvic region), the deposit is more than the left.
Is there any hormonal play here?
Coach Thib,
After having done the zinc test, via zinc tally, I am officially zinc deficient. I read on Charles’ site that the zinc protocol calls for Uberzinc 2caps 3x/day for 8 weeks and then gradually reducing over 4 weeks to 1cap/day.
However, the guy (biosig practionner) at the supp store sold me zinc supreme (holds less zinc than uberzinc) and told me to take 1cap 4x/day for 5days and then reducing gradually to 1cap/day, all this in a 2 week period.
I’m just confused as to why these protocols don’t match. I am using HCL 3.0 + Multi-Intense (iron-free), don’t know if those supps are the reason for a different protocol.
Your input would be greatly appreciated!
rikz
The old protocol was zinc supreme at 120mg a day, which is 4 caps. The latest that I have seen is uberzinc a 2X3 as you posted. There may be a few reasons why they differ. Zinc supreme has a different type of zinc than uberzinc. Off the top of my head I believe that zinc arginate is in zinc supreme, which from what I understand is better for testosterone production.
Also, different types of minerals are absorbed differently, and there are different amounts of zinc in different amounts of chelates depending on the size of the amino acid that it’s chelated to. I’m just guessing here, but there might be more zinc in zinc arginate than zinc in something like zinc glycinate. I’m too lazy to look it up.
I have tried both protocol and for getting zinc levels up, I found uberzinc to work much better. It took me about 2 months before I tested correct for zinc. My suggestion is that you go with uberzinc until you test properly, and then switch to 1 cap of zinc supreme for maintenance and test once a month.