haha, those are the best. But write for yourself. If you like the idea or want to tinker with it, why stop? The way you describe it makes me want to read it. Look at what a cult classic Natural Born Killers became.
[quote]Zen Taco wrote:
haha, those are the best. But write for yourself. If you like the idea or want to tinker with it, why stop? The way you describe it makes me want to read it. Look at what a cult classic Natural Born Killers became. [/quote]
Quick outline
Religious guy falls in love with un-believing girl
Girl dies
Guy begins receiving letters from hell (the letters have been the biggest hang-up for me)
Guy struggles with denouncing faith so that he ultimately spends eternity with girl
Guy goes to hell.
Finds out trick of the devil and girl is actually in heaven or… Guy can see girl in hell and is forced to watch her die over and over and never can reach her letting that be his own personal hell.
Story over. It has a somewhat religious base so there goes a whole other group of people with no interest. It is incredibly hard to flush out and writing letters from a female prospective has proven next to impossible for me without sounding cheesy. Any tweaks to the story line are welcome.
actually, I think that’s a great start to an interesting story. I’m very religious, but I would certainly read it. Like DB was saying: a story can tell a lot more than just a plot. It gives insights, beliefs, views and opinions. It makes a person think outside of their own world. This story is a great base to start with.
A few off the head suggestions:
-the letters are a great way of communication. Perhaps visions or dreams would help expand their interactions? Right away I wonder why Satan is picking out this guy in particular. Is he just trying to see a believer fall? Is he playing with him to get his agenda done? (think heinous acts etc). I think if you can discover a reasoning behind Satan’s plan, it’ll help really drive the plot.
-What kind of information do the letters contain? Look up books that are letter based to get an idea of how they can drive a book. CS Lewis’ screwtape letters is a series of letters from one demon to another on making a person fall away from God. You might want to read that to get some ideas.
-Delve into the tension and struggle of the main character. What are his questions to God? What is God’s role (if there is any?) What are his obstacles to falling away from the faith?
[quote]Zen Taco wrote:
actually, I think that’s a great start to an interesting story. I’m very religious, but I would certainly read it. Like DB was saying: a story can tell a lot more than just a plot. It gives insights, beliefs, views and opinions. It makes a person think outside of their own world. This story is a great base to start with.
A few off the head suggestions:
-the letters are a great way of communication. Perhaps visions or dreams would help expand their interactions? Right away I wonder why Satan is picking out this guy in particular. Is he just trying to see a believer fall? Is he playing with him to get his agenda done? (think heinous acts etc). I think if you can discover a reasoning behind Satan’s plan, it’ll help really drive the plot.
-What kind of information do the letters contain? Look up books that are letter based to get an idea of how they can drive a book. CS Lewis’ screwtape letters is a series of letters from one demon to another on making a person fall away from God. You might want to read that to get some ideas.
-Delve into the tension and struggle of the main character. What are his questions to God? What is God’s role (if there is any?) What are his obstacles to falling away from the faith?
[/quote]
I like those ideas. The letters have always simply been love letters from the girl to the guy, with some expansion on what hell was like. The whole idea is actually based on a song that I heard when I was in high school, “What it is to Burn” by Finch. I saw in an interview where the lead singer said he wrote the song as a letter from hell to someone he loved but was unclear if a literal or figurative hell, I took it literally and I have pondered that story ever since.
Coincidentally, a co-worker just lent me The Screwtape Letters because he heard me mention that I was a CS Lewis fan. Was planning on starting it when I finish The Dark Tower series from Stephen King.
I purposefully did not want thee to be anything about God’s influence other than the loyalty to him expressed by the guy in the story. I wanted God to be a distant observer allowing guy to be tested ala the story of Job.
Also I suppose why Satan chose this guy should be broached. I guess in a way I always have just left it at, Satan is bad and likes to screw with the faithful, especially if he can find a little leverage, just for his own enjoyment. Maybe it does need a little more than that. As you said, they could push the story and help to fill it out beyond the skeleton that it is now.
Thanks for taking the time out for that.
Hard to believe that I missed this thread. I am actually in the process of two poems nearing publication and I have several short stories that are complete but need further revision. After that, I will submit them to some magazines and journals and see if anything bites on one of my stories. Just to sort of reiterate what others have said, write everyday and understand that a lot of the writing process comes during revision. Everything that I have written only bears some semblance to its piece progenitor. But you will never revise something to be perfect, you will just have to find a point at which you are satisfied with abandoning it.
[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
The entire story is dark and depressing while at the same time being screwed up romantic, like a fucked up Stephen King/Nicholas Sparks hybrid.[/quote]
This sounds awesome.
[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
Quick outline
Religious guy falls in love with un-believing girl
Girl dies
Guy begins receiving letters from hell (the letters have been the biggest hang-up for me)
Guy struggles with denouncing faith so that he ultimately spends eternity with girl
Guy goes to hell.
Finds out trick of the devil and girl is actually in heaven or… Guy can see girl in hell and is forced to watch her die over and over and never can reach her letting that be his own personal hell.
Story over. It has a somewhat religious base so there goes a whole other group of people with no interest. It is incredibly hard to flush out and writing letters from a female prospective has proven next to impossible for me without sounding cheesy. Any tweaks to the story line are welcome.[/quote]
Yes. This does sound awesome.
A couple things though-
I don’t think most Christians I’ve met would be willing to go to hell in order to be with a loved one. There needs to be a rather compelling reason why he’s willing to abandon eternity with Christ. I would think that this is probably the most compelling part of your story, where you can get the literary “meat”, as it were.
“Guy can see girl in hell and is forced to watch her die over and over and never can reach her letting that be his own personal hell.” I think this is a far better ending than the other one. You are choosing eternal damnation after all.
I just think that the general theme of “you’ve given into temptation, and will be punished eternally for it” is stronger than the other one, which just feels like one of Shyamalan’s “It’s a twist!” type of ending.
And I don’t think the Devil’s motivation needs to be explored. The Christian Devil is said to exist purely to oppose God and lead as many souls as he can into damnation. He does so in this story. Perfect motivation, no need to spend time on it.
Kudos to everyone who is actually following their dreams. I once aspired to be at least write a couple of stories; but I never got anywhere with them. Each and every story I wrote seemed like they had a million plot-holes and terribly wooden characters. I have absolutely no confidence in my ability to write dialogue either.
It’s why my favorite self-written story has very little dialogue in it.
Self-doubt destroys you.
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
I used to write professionally, so I suppose I’m qualified to offer some advice.
First off, it sounds like you are interested in creative writing as opposed to journalism. Regardless, you need to get used to writing everyday. That’s the first thing to do, and the most important.
What are you looking to write? A novel? Poetry? Short stories? Op-ed for the local paper?
Who is your intended audience? I used to write for a local magazine and although I had complete autonomy in terms of what I wrote (I had a weekly column and was also responsible for writing the front-page story when the editor thought the topic fit my style, which was probably every other week or so), I was constantly butting heads with the managing editor over who my articles and columns were geared toward. What I mean by that is that I never wrote in a manner that was all-inclusive.
I had an esoteric writing style and quite frankly, I didn’t give a fuck if what I wrote went over a lot of people’s heads because I didn’t write for the lowest common denominator. That’s the problem with print publication; the editor is always going to want you to write in a manner that allows the dumbest motherfucker in the crowd to get it. Rather than me dumbing down what I wrote, the dumb shits of the world should get up to speed was my attitude. Naturally, that and some censorship issues led to me seeking employment elsewhere and I eventually went back to school to earn my teaching credential.
But if you want to do strictly creative writing, such as novels/novellas and that sort of thing, I would recommend you write often and let others read your work. If you have an ego like mine, you’ll always be convinced that whatever you’re writing is the Absolute Fucking Shit.
Don’t be afraid to borrow from other writers’ styles, either. If you are a good natural writer it won’t come off as plagiarism or copying or anything like that. Good writers let others influence their own voice, but good writers have their own voice to begin with (that’s what makes naturally-good writers good writers). Let your personality show through your writing and when you let others read your work, don’t let their opinion on your STYLE sway you.
You are seeking their advice on how the plot or the characters or the pace at which the story unfolds, not their opinion on the way this is presented. If people don’t like that you use big words or lots of weird analogies or you write very economically or whatever, that’s their issue, not yours. You cannot please everyone with your style and those who like whatever natural style it is you write with are your general audience.
My mother will never like Hunter S. Thompson’s prose style or his “voice”, for instance.
Also, use words and sentence structure and that sort of thing that complement what is happening in the story. Short, simple sentences have a tendency to create the impression of speed or action or whatever when you are writing about something suspenseful. You won’t be able to hold someone’s suspense with long, drawn-out sentences. Likewise, in a scene calling for description, don’t be afraid to pull out some of the bigger words in your vocabulary and don’t be afraid to go into detail with longer sentences and that sort of shit.
One other thing: dialogue. Dialogue is really hard to write in a convincing, natural manner for many people. I can’t really think of anyone off the top of my head is great at dialogue, but it’s not that easy. Practice it as much as possible. Try writing down interesting conversations you’ve had or interesting exchanges you’ve had with people. Brett Easton Ellis’ dialogue scenes in “American Psycho” are pretty memorable. That whole fucking book is, really. But I digress.
Another thing that would really help if you are writing fiction is creating a little background story for each character. Perhaps a page or two for each character in a notebook.
But really, the most important thing in my opinion is to write every single day. Part of the reason I tend to write really long posts on here is that I like to write (I can also type very, very fast so these things don’t take me nearly as long as they would take almost anyone else on the site). You have to like writing to be a good writer, which sounds obvious enough. The other part that I personally feel is very important is to get used to writing in a conversational tone. That will help with the dialogue aspect and it makes it easier for people to read. I like to think that most of my long posts on here are easy to read through because I write with a very conversational tone.
If you get a chance, take a look at a couple of books by Hunter S. Thompson called “The Proud Highway” and “Fear and Loathing in America”. They are collections of letters he wrote to people, which is a pretty conversational style of writing when you think about it. Then re-read some of his better works and you’ll notice that the styles aren’t all that different at all when moving from his letters to his fictional work to his more standard, earlier journalism to his Gonzo journalism. [/quote]
That’s some good shit right there.
“That’s the problem with print publication; the editor is always going to want you to write in a manner that allows the dumbest motherfucker in the crowd to get it.” -DB
Solid.
[quote]Zen Taco wrote:
I like where your head is at. I was looking through your blog, and it looks like you’re on the right path. It’s a delicate dance between description and keeping the story moving, but it will improve as you read and continue to write. One thing I’ve been using more lately is a technique of questioning. In Needles, you said, “They struggle to care.” Be specific and delve deeper. Do they care about you at all or are they oblivious? Do they look in your direction or do their heads stay straight? The word struggle denotes a tension in their mind to care about you. Do you see it on their faces? I’m not nitpicking at that sentence in particular, however it’s a good example. Go farther when you can. Shape, practice and hone your craft. Some authors (like Kurt Vonnegut) fight a sentence ten times before it’s right. Others slap the whole thing on the page and go back 4-100 times. I prefer the slap method, but do what comes natural.
[/quote]
Zen, thanks for the advice. Greatly appreciated and taken on board.
I was actually referring to my new blog, in my last post. The blog you read was an old one where I was just throwing ideas down and running with them.
[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
[quote]Zen Taco wrote:
haha, those are the best. But write for yourself. If you like the idea or want to tinker with it, why stop? The way you describe it makes me want to read it. Look at what a cult classic Natural Born Killers became. [/quote]
Quick outline
Religious guy falls in love with un-believing girl
Girl dies
Guy begins receiving letters from hell (the letters have been the biggest hang-up for me)
Guy struggles with denouncing faith so that he ultimately spends eternity with girl
Guy goes to hell.
Finds out trick of the devil and girl is actually in heaven or… Guy can see girl in hell and is forced to watch her die over and over and never can reach her letting that be his own personal hell.
Story over. It has a somewhat religious base so there goes a whole other group of people with no interest. It is incredibly hard to flush out and writing letters from a female prospective has proven next to impossible for me without sounding cheesy. Any tweaks to the story line are welcome.[/quote]
Whoa. That’s wicked! “Letters from Hell”. The GF would have to end up being saved at the last second and ended up in heaven waiting on him. It’s just so dark… I guess if it was reversed, it just wouldn’t have the same punch to it.
Anyway he gets the letters from Satan, gets tempted, chooses to stick with his faith, and is rewarded to see his GF in heaven when he dies? Broader appeal, but not the same punch.
[quote]magick wrote:
[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
Quick outline
Religious guy falls in love with un-believing girl
Girl dies
Guy begins receiving letters from hell (the letters have been the biggest hang-up for me)
Guy struggles with denouncing faith so that he ultimately spends eternity with girl
Guy goes to hell.
Finds out trick of the devil and girl is actually in heaven or… Guy can see girl in hell and is forced to watch her die over and over and never can reach her letting that be his own personal hell.
Story over. It has a somewhat religious base so there goes a whole other group of people with no interest. It is incredibly hard to flush out and writing letters from a female prospective has proven next to impossible for me without sounding cheesy. Any tweaks to the story line are welcome.[/quote]
Yes. This does sound awesome.
A couple things though-
I don’t think most Christians I’ve met would be willing to go to hell in order to be with a loved one. There needs to be a rather compelling reason why he’s willing to abandon eternity with Christ. I would think that this is probably the most compelling part of your story, where you can get the literary “meat”, as it were.
“Guy can see girl in hell and is forced to watch her die over and over and never can reach her letting that be his own personal hell.” I think this is a far better ending than the other one. You are choosing eternal damnation after all.
I just think that the general theme of “you’ve given into temptation, and will be punished eternally for it” is stronger than the other one, which just feels like one of Shyamalan’s “It’s a twist!” type of ending.
And I don’t think the Devil’s motivation needs to be explored. The Christian Devil is said to exist purely to oppose God and lead as many souls as he can into damnation. He does so in this story. Perfect motivation, no need to spend time on it.
Kudos to everyone who is actually following their dreams. I once aspired to be at least write a couple of stories; but I never got anywhere with them. Each and every story I wrote seemed like they had a million plot-holes and terribly wooden characters. I have absolutely no confidence in my ability to write dialogue either.
It’s why my favorite self-written story has very little dialogue in it.
Self-doubt destroys you.[/quote]
Self-doubt can destroy, but self-doubt is also self-inflicted. Sometimes you have to write 100 horrible pieces to get the one piece of gold. don’t quit man, if you like to write, why not keep going? The characters will develop, the plot twists and fill-ins can be improved, and writing dialogue can be made more natural as time goes on.
props to everyone who has written or enjoys writing. I love seeing people talking and discussing the craft