This is a really great thread. I have always been an avid reader, and enjoyed writing academic papers and such, as well as some prose. The written word is one of the most powerful forces in the world. I look at Shakespeare’s Othello for a literary example of how persuasive and powerful words can be. DB, the reference to stream of consciousness to get started in writing is interesting; I believe that is how Henry Miller began his career. Half of his ideas seemed brilliant, and half of it, incomprehensible shit. Writing a book is a life goal of mine.
[quote]IFlashBack wrote:
I’ve always wondered, when you guys have a creative peace that you want to write, do you start with an end in mind, or do you just go with the flow? Or is it something that each writer views differently? [/quote]
I think it’s something that is different for everyone. In my opinion, the best writers have Something to Say, so the end is really just the culmination of those feelings. Guys like Tom Clancy or Clive Cussler or Sue Grafton, who basically just churn out a bunch of shit in the hopes that someone picks up the movie rights down the road, don’t have much to say. Which isn’t to denigrate what they write since they are quite prolific writers and what they do works for a majority of readers.
But it is much tougher to write something that is “literature”, that says something about the world we live in. To me, that is what makes a written piece “art” and not merely another book. As good and exciting as books by guys like Clancy or the Jack Reacher writer can be, they aren’t really art. When I think of “art”, I think of Hunter S. Thompson, Burgess, Faulkner, Hemingway, etc.
Take “Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas”, for instance. Believe it or not, but that is a book that is taught in many, many literature classes at the university level. It was more than just a drug-fueled escapade; it was a statement about the fallout and naivety of the hippie movement and the pitfalls associated with believing in change. Duke and Dr. Gonzo were the flip side of the counter-culture coin. What happens to all of these burnt-out acid freaks when reality finally hits them and things DON’T change the way they envisioned?
You end up with guys like Duke and Dr. Gonzo. It’s also about the fact that, while many people legitimately sought drug use as a way to expand their minds and foster a new way of thinking that could help change the world, a lot of people simply just liked whatever short-circuited their brain the fastest and the most effectively, hence guys like Duke and Dr. Gonzo. They wanted to enact change, but the whole drug thing to them was a farce; they just really liked getting fucked up.
So when you have something to say like that, the plot structure becomes secondary. With those sorts of books it’s more about the journey along the way rather than where you end up that is important. The plot just needs to serve as a vehicle for voicing the message the writer has in mind.
Aside from being an exceptional artist, I’m also a 2-bit poet and short story writer.
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Aside from being an exceptional artist, I’m also a 2-bit poet and short story writer.[/quote]
We already knew that you were a short story writer. Get it? SHORT story writer?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
I kill myself sometimes.
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Aside from being an exceptional artist, I’m also a 2-bit poet and short story writer.[/quote]
You tend to like to do little things…hahahahahahaahahahahahahaha
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Aside from being an exceptional artist, I’m also a 2-bit poet and short story writer.[/quote]
You tend to like to do little things…hahahahahahaahahahahahahaha
[/quote]
You and Coop can just… just…
Shit, I’m coming up short with insults.
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Aside from being an exceptional artist, I’m also a 2-bit poet and short story writer.[/quote]
You tend to like to do little things…hahahahahahaahahahahahahaha
[/quote]
You and Coop can just… just…
Shit, I’m coming up short with insults.
[/quote]
I <3 the ID
Could not help myself
what kind of short stories? I really never had the ear for poetry, I think to linear
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Aside from being an exceptional artist, I’m also a 2-bit poet and short story writer.[/quote]
You tend to like to do little things…hahahahahahaahahahahahahaha
[/quote]
You and Coop can just… just…
Shit, I’m coming up short with insults.
[/quote]
I <3 the ID
Could not help myself
what kind of short stories? I really never had the ear for poetry, I think to linear [/quote]
Backatcha, D!!
I mix personal experience facts with fiction when I write short stories. Most are short enough to fill one page.
My poems are plays on words and such.
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Aside from being an exceptional artist, I’m also a 2-bit poet and short story writer.[/quote]
You tend to like to do little things…hahahahahahaahahahahahahaha
[/quote]
You and Coop can just… just…
Shit, I’m coming up short with insults.
[/quote]
I <3 the ID
Could not help myself
what kind of short stories? I really never had the ear for poetry, I think to linear [/quote]
Backatcha, D!!
I mix personal experience facts with fiction when I write short stories. Most are short enough to fill one page.
My poems are plays on words and such.
[/quote]
I once wrote a bunch of short stories when I was in my first marriage, they were horror mostly.
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Aside from being an exceptional artist, I’m also a 2-bit poet and short story writer.[/quote]
You tend to like to do little things…hahahahahahaahahahahahahaha
[/quote]
You and Coop can just… just…
Shit, I’m coming up short with insults.
[/quote]
I <3 the ID
Could not help myself
what kind of short stories? I really never had the ear for poetry, I think to linear [/quote]
Backatcha, D!!
I mix personal experience facts with fiction when I write short stories. Most are short enough to fill one page.
My poems are plays on words and such.
[/quote]
I once wrote a bunch of short stories when I was in my first marriage, they were horror mostly.
[/quote]
A journal of your daily married life doesn’t count as horror stories.
I’ll add anything Bryan Garner to the list of things to study to be a more effective writer:
Edit: And I’ll second that effective writing takes lots of practice coupled with knowledgable and brutal criticism.
My advice is to either put me on the ignore list or study my posts carefully and then make sure you don’t write anything like I would.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
My advice is to either put me on the ignore list or study my posts carefully and then make sure you don’t write anything like I would.[/quote]
A self-deprecating sense of humor is all too rare in books these days.
I’ve been working on a fitness blog I created a while back. It’s hard, keeping consistent with the writing however now and again, I just lay my thoughts down, without any regard for the quality of writing.
I’m always on the lookout for contributions as well so if there’s any budding writers out there then feel free to chime in with this thread.
This means you Mr DB Cooper!
All good writers started out as voracious readers.
All good writers write, revise, re-work, and re-write a story until perfect.
everything here is great advice! keep writing (as stated previously) is the foundation. I like to set a goal of writing at least one short story (usually 2-3 pages) a day. Some of them have a plot and ending in mind, while others are used to expand the creative process. It can be maddening, yet exciting to try and figure out how the main character is going to use a banana in his shirt pocket to save a friend. One of the biggest pieces of advice I can give is this: Do not give up. You will get writer’s block. You will get discouraged. You will question whether anybody would possibly want to read your drivel. But keep going, and do not give in to the moments where the white screen is overwhelming. Just keep writing, and know that all of it can be re-worked.
props to you for pursuing your passion/hobby!! I’m excited to see where your writing takes you.
I have started writing the same story a thousand times, outlined it, then never been able to get going in flushing it out in a way that I am happy with. I don’t know if its the idea or what, but it seems like a good story to me, but then it comes across as a rather chick type read and I don’t even like what I start writing so I give up for a while come back and start over, same outcome. The next to last time I started this I started trying to write it from a point in the middle. Got frustrated and deleted everything I had.
Pretty well back at square one now, except for a random idea for an ending change.
I like where your head is at. I was looking through your blog, and it looks like you’re on the right path. It’s a delicate dance between description and keeping the story moving, but it will improve as you read and continue to write. One thing I’ve been using more lately is a technique of questioning. In Needles, you said, “They struggle to care.” Be specific and delve deeper. Do they care about you at all or are they oblivious? Do they look in your direction or do their heads stay straight? The word struggle denotes a tension in their mind to care about you. Do you see it on their faces? I’m not nitpicking at that sentence in particular, however it’s a good example. Go farther when you can. Shape, practice and hone your craft. Some authors (like Kurt Vonnegut) fight a sentence ten times before it’s right. Others slap the whole thing on the page and go back 4-100 times. I prefer the slap method, but do what comes natural.
[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
I have started writing the same story a thousand times, outlined it, then never been able to get going in flushing it out in a way that I am happy with. I don’t know if its the idea or what, but it seems like a good story to me, but then it comes across as a rather chick type read and I don’t even like what I start writing so I give up for a while come back and start over, same outcome. The next to last time I started this I started trying to write it from a point in the middle. Got frustrated and deleted everything I had.
Pretty well back at square one now, except for a random idea for an ending change. [/quote]
I’m not an expert, but if it were me: I would fight the story to the bitter end and finish. It’s a win-win. If you finish and hate it, you’ll have a better idea of what is not working. If you start to enjoy the piece, you can re-edit until it’s shaping a way you want. Either way, just the process of writing it and determining to finish will teach you a lot of lessons about what you like and don’t like. Remember, it can always be hidden in a stack of newspapers after it’s done, but the idea in your head will drive you nuts if you don’t finish the work
Yeah, I have thought about that. I have always been a much better editor than writer so there is definitely probably something to that. I guess the other thing is, I don’t know who would enjoy reading the damn thing if I finished it. The entire story is dark and depressing while at the same time being screwed up romantic, like a fucked up Stephen King/Nicholas Sparks hybrid.