The Writing Thread

I used to be an avid writer in my youth however other endeavours (work, social) came into play and I fell away from it.

I have recently read Robert Greene’s Mastery (amazing book, read it if you can) and have been inspired to take my old hobby up again. I plan to devote myself to writing and hopefully over time, build up to a good level.

My old man always used to tell me I had a good writing style and it would be good to act on his kind words now that he is onto pastures new and green.

It would be great to knock some heads and get advice from the more established writers that dwell within the corridors of T Nation.

Creative writing ideas, where to start, what inspires you etc

I used to write professionally, so I suppose I’m qualified to offer some advice.

First off, it sounds like you are interested in creative writing as opposed to journalism. Regardless, you need to get used to writing everyday. That’s the first thing to do, and the most important.

What are you looking to write? A novel? Poetry? Short stories? Op-ed for the local paper?

Who is your intended audience? I used to write for a local magazine and although I had complete autonomy in terms of what I wrote (I had a weekly column and was also responsible for writing the front-page story when the editor thought the topic fit my style, which was probably every other week or so), I was constantly butting heads with the managing editor over who my articles and columns were geared toward. What I mean by that is that I never wrote in a manner that was all-inclusive.

I had an esoteric writing style and quite frankly, I didn’t give a fuck if what I wrote went over a lot of people’s heads because I didn’t write for the lowest common denominator. That’s the problem with print publication; the editor is always going to want you to write in a manner that allows the dumbest motherfucker in the crowd to get it. Rather than me dumbing down what I wrote, the dumb shits of the world should get up to speed was my attitude. Naturally, that and some censorship issues led to me seeking employment elsewhere and I eventually went back to school to earn my teaching credential.

But if you want to do strictly creative writing, such as novels/novellas and that sort of thing, I would recommend you write often and let others read your work. If you have an ego like mine, you’ll always be convinced that whatever you’re writing is the Absolute Fucking Shit.

Don’t be afraid to borrow from other writers’ styles, either. If you are a good natural writer it won’t come off as plagiarism or copying or anything like that. Good writers let others influence their own voice, but good writers have their own voice to begin with (that’s what makes naturally-good writers good writers). Let your personality show through your writing and when you let others read your work, don’t let their opinion on your STYLE sway you.

You are seeking their advice on how the plot or the characters or the pace at which the story unfolds, not their opinion on the way this is presented. If people don’t like that you use big words or lots of weird analogies or you write very economically or whatever, that’s their issue, not yours. You cannot please everyone with your style and those who like whatever natural style it is you write with are your general audience.

My mother will never like Hunter S. Thompson’s prose style or his “voice”, for instance.

Also, use words and sentence structure and that sort of thing that complement what is happening in the story. Short, simple sentences have a tendency to create the impression of speed or action or whatever when you are writing about something suspenseful. You won’t be able to hold someone’s suspense with long, drawn-out sentences. Likewise, in a scene calling for description, don’t be afraid to pull out some of the bigger words in your vocabulary and don’t be afraid to go into detail with longer sentences and that sort of shit.

One other thing: dialogue. Dialogue is really hard to write in a convincing, natural manner for many people. I can’t really think of anyone off the top of my head is great at dialogue, but it’s not that easy. Practice it as much as possible. Try writing down interesting conversations you’ve had or interesting exchanges you’ve had with people. Brett Easton Ellis’ dialogue scenes in “American Psycho” are pretty memorable. That whole fucking book is, really. But I digress.

Another thing that would really help if you are writing fiction is creating a little background story for each character. Perhaps a page or two for each character in a notebook.

But really, the most important thing in my opinion is to write every single day. Part of the reason I tend to write really long posts on here is that I like to write (I can also type very, very fast so these things don’t take me nearly as long as they would take almost anyone else on the site). You have to like writing to be a good writer, which sounds obvious enough. The other part that I personally feel is very important is to get used to writing in a conversational tone. That will help with the dialogue aspect and it makes it easier for people to read. I like to think that most of my long posts on here are easy to read through because I write with a very conversational tone.

If you get a chance, take a look at a couple of books by Hunter S. Thompson called “The Proud Highway” and “Fear and Loathing in America”. They are collections of letters he wrote to people, which is a pretty conversational style of writing when you think about it. Then re-read some of his better works and you’ll notice that the styles aren’t all that different at all when moving from his letters to his fictional work to his more standard, earlier journalism to his Gonzo journalism.

Excellent.I am 53 and worked in the trucking business and was injured while on the job.I was given vocational assessment’s and showed a strong suit in vocabulary and as an orator,but the bad new’s was my written essay type work was lacking. I too respect what you are presuing and give you my support.Education is onething than sickness,or old age cannot take away.Thank’s for pointinf-out this powerful tool of expression. Merry christmas my friend.Your’s truly johnny

I wouldn’t exactly call myself a writer, though I do enjoy it and have been told I have at least some aptitude for it, but I will say two things. There is an awful lot of truth in everything DB said, and I thought Stephen King’s On Writing was really well done. I’ve read it a few times and every time it inspires me to do some sort of writing. Something to look into.

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
I used to write professionally, so I suppose I’m qualified to offer some advice.

First off, it sounds like you are interested in creative writing as opposed to journalism. Regardless, you need to get used to writing everyday. That’s the first thing to do, and the most important.

What are you looking to write? A novel? Poetry? Short stories? Op-ed for the local paper?

Who is your intended audience? I used to write for a local magazine and although I had complete autonomy in terms of what I wrote (I had a weekly column and was also responsible for writing the front-page story when the editor thought the topic fit my style, which was probably every other week or so), I was constantly butting heads with the managing editor over who my articles and columns were geared toward. What I mean by that is that I never wrote in a manner that was all-inclusive.

I had an esoteric writing style and quite frankly, I didn’t give a fuck if what I wrote went over a lot of people’s heads because I didn’t write for the lowest common denominator. That’s the problem with print publication; the editor is always going to want you to write in a manner that allows the dumbest motherfucker in the crowd to get it. Rather than me dumbing down what I wrote, the dumb shits of the world should get up to speed was my attitude. Naturally, that and some censorship issues led to me seeking employment elsewhere and I eventually went back to school to earn my teaching credential.

But if you want to do strictly creative writing, such as novels/novellas and that sort of thing, I would recommend you write often and let others read your work. If you have an ego like mine, you’ll always be convinced that whatever you’re writing is the Absolute Fucking Shit.

Don’t be afraid to borrow from other writers’ styles, either. If you are a good natural writer it won’t come off as plagiarism or copying or anything like that. Good writers let others influence their own voice, but good writers have their own voice to begin with (that’s what makes naturally-good writers good writers). Let your personality show through your writing and when you let others read your work, don’t let their opinion on your STYLE sway you.

You are seeking their advice on how the plot or the characters or the pace at which the story unfolds, not their opinion on the way this is presented. If people don’t like that you use big words or lots of weird analogies or you write very economically or whatever, that’s their issue, not yours. You cannot please everyone with your style and those who like whatever natural style it is you write with are your general audience.

My mother will never like Hunter S. Thompson’s prose style or his “voice”, for instance.

Also, use words and sentence structure and that sort of thing that complement what is happening in the story. Short, simple sentences have a tendency to create the impression of speed or action or whatever when you are writing about something suspenseful. You won’t be able to hold someone’s suspense with long, drawn-out sentences. Likewise, in a scene calling for description, don’t be afraid to pull out some of the bigger words in your vocabulary and don’t be afraid to go into detail with longer sentences and that sort of shit.

One other thing: dialogue. Dialogue is really hard to write in a convincing, natural manner for many people. I can’t really think of anyone off the top of my head is great at dialogue, but it’s not that easy. Practice it as much as possible. Try writing down interesting conversations you’ve had or interesting exchanges you’ve had with people. Brett Easton Ellis’ dialogue scenes in “American Psycho” are pretty memorable. That whole fucking book is, really. But I digress.

Another thing that would really help if you are writing fiction is creating a little background story for each character. Perhaps a page or two for each character in a notebook.

But really, the most important thing in my opinion is to write every single day. Part of the reason I tend to write really long posts on here is that I like to write (I can also type very, very fast so these things don’t take me nearly as long as they would take almost anyone else on the site). You have to like writing to be a good writer, which sounds obvious enough. The other part that I personally feel is very important is to get used to writing in a conversational tone. That will help with the dialogue aspect and it makes it easier for people to read. I like to think that most of my long posts on here are easy to read through because I write with a very conversational tone.

If you get a chance, take a look at a couple of books by Hunter S. Thompson called “The Proud Highway” and “Fear and Loathing in America”. They are collections of letters he wrote to people, which is a pretty conversational style of writing when you think about it. Then re-read some of his better works and you’ll notice that the styles aren’t all that different at all when moving from his letters to his fictional work to his more standard, earlier journalism to his Gonzo journalism. [/quote]

This is amazing post, great content DB.

Got a question, in order to become a good/great Creative writer do you have to have the grammatical rules down to a T? Or will people still give your work recognition (when it deserves it ofc) regardless of your grammatical missteps?

DB Cooper - Many thanks for your informative, helpful and excellent post. I have taken all your points on board and it has ceretainly provided food for thought.

The take home message for me, from your post, is consistency in writing output. I have created a blog to host these writings in order to make myself accountable and become prolific with output. As for writing style? Right now it’s a case of writing whatever comes into my head at any given moment. I’m not using prompts of any sort as I feel this will be more challenging and will help me move towards my goals more efficiently, if that makes any sense?

johnny k53 - Thanks for your kind words mate. Hope to see your more of your input and I wish you luck.

TheJonty - Thanks for the heads up on the book. I’ll definitely look it up!

@Optheta:

The thing with grammar is that it usually improves as you read more, and it also improves as you have others read your work (assuming you aren’t having a bunch of dipshits reading your work, which would be of no benefit to you at all).

Good writers usually also read a lot because when you get down to it, good writers like the written word. So it’s kind of tough to be a good writer without picking up on proper grammar along the way.

There’s no hard and fast rule that says you HAVE to squat with perfect form to squat 500 lbs, but let’s face it. If you can’t squat with proper form you’ll never remain injury-free long enough to accumulate enough time under the bar to get to 500 in the first place, so you’ll kind of just force yourself to develop good form even if you never develop perfect form.

That being said, if you are aiming to write for publication of some sort there is always going to be an editor going over your work. When I was writing for this magazine I was the in-house proofreader as well, but there was another guy who always went over everything separately from me so that we would catch each other’s mistakes. It’s easy to miss something when you literally have to read every single word in the magazine before it goes to print each week.

So don’t worry too much about that sort of thing. If you completely mangle sentence structure every time you write, chances are you aren’t that great of a writer to begin with. If you struggle with spelling and that sort of thing I would recommend reading more books, not print or online journalism. Different publications have their own style standards (it’s stuff like write out numbers one through nine and then use numerals for 10 and up; hyphenate any sort of fraction, such as one-and-a-half instead of one and a half; second instead of 2nd and that sort of thing) so reading books is the best way to improve in this area.

And like I said, you don’t have to have perfect grammar, but if your grammar is completely hopeless chances are your writing skills aren’t very good and you’ll never be writing for any sort of audience anyways, so the point is moot.

[quote]ChongLordUno wrote:
DB Cooper - Many thanks for your informative, helpful and excellent post. I have taken all your points on board and it has ceretainly provided food for thought.

The take home message for me, from your post, is consistency in writing output. I have created a blog to host these writings in order to make myself accountable and become prolific with output. As for writing style? Right now it’s a case of writing whatever comes into my head at any given moment. I’m not using prompts of any sort as I feel this will be more challenging and will help me move towards my goals more efficiently, if that makes any sense?

johnny k53 - Thanks for your kind words mate. Hope to see your more of your input and I wish you luck.

TheJonty - Thanks for the heads up on the book. I’ll definitely look it up!

[/quote]

Let us know what blog site you are on so we can read your stuff. There’s a lot of well-read, intelligent people on here who would be able to offer valuable input. Is it a blog that allows others to participate?

One other thing that I found really helped my writing style was to write from time to time in a stream-of-conscious style. Not necessarily full-bore stream-of-conscious style like Virginia Woolf or Norman Mailer in “Why Are We in Vietnam?”, but simply in a non-structural present tense format. The magazine I wrote for was a sort of poor man’s Rolling Stone and I would usually use my sway over there to be able to cover any concerts with some bigger names (I live in a small town in the middle of the Sacramento Valley, so when Snoop Dogg or Static-X came to town it was sort of a big deal).

The editor always wanted someone to cover the event and write a review and I got sick and tired of reading the same bullshit that doesn’t convey what it was like at the show. No one wants to read the same old shit, so I started employing this method instead and it seemed to really work. I can’t find any copies of my first experiment with this style, but below is my second attempt at it and I think it worked nicely. I had started smoking weed again for a few weeks and this was the only positive thing to come out of it.

59,000. This is the number in my head. 59,000. Snoop Doggâ??s last album sold 59,000 copies the week it debuted. It peaked at #23, a far cry from the 800,000-plus copies sold and the #1 spot that Doggstyle occupied in the early â??90s. This is why Iâ??m a few feet from the stage and I can see Snoop lingering behind the curtains and yet, I am perturbed because he turned down an interview with this esteemed journalist. Frankly, I thought with his last albumâ??s low sales, heâ??d jump at a chance at publicity for an album I didnâ??t even know was due out next month until last week (Tha Doggumentary).

Iâ??m also jammed in with a bunch of teenagers who werenâ??t old enough to talk when Doggystyle came out and thereâ??s no booze served at this goddamned place and the blunt in my pocketâ??s probably been mashed into oblivion and the security guard in front of the stage is staring at me like he knows…he knows. Iâ??m wondering how long it will be before I have to go to the Feather Falls Casino to see Snoop, with Onyx or KRS-One opening, when all of a sudden the soothing sound of â??Carmina Buranaâ?? bombards me from all sides and my skepticism turns to giddy anticipation. This song is exactly how Snoop opened his show here last year, and if this show goes like that one did, Iâ??ll be happy.

And now heâ??s onstage and heâ??s slinking along with his famous swagger and a mic encrusted with what looks like a small glacier and there are others rapping with him and the crowd is going fucking nuts and Iâ??m going fucking nuts and the bass is overwhelming me, but I love Snoop, andâ?¦and something is off. It must be the blunt I had earlier, butâ?¦no, something is wrong, very wrong. Then it hits me: I have no clue what song is being played. I canâ??t hear the vocals at all and the way the music has been mixed has left it a jumbled mess from my position about ten feet in front of a stack of speakers. But I donâ??t care because Iâ??m caught up in the fervor of the crowd and heâ??s moved on to another song and I can recognize this one, but now Iâ??m being pulled on the arm and my large-breasted friend has dragged me through the crowd and sheâ??s going up the walkway to the back of the seating area. We go upstairs to watch the rest of the show, where she can dance freely.

From here the sound is a little better, but I donâ??t care anymore anyways. Every hip-hop concert Iâ??ve been to, except The Roots, has hard-to-decipher vocals and deafening bass that drowns out all but the backbeat. Iâ??m used to it and Iâ??m enjoying the spectacle of a large group of women from the crowd dancing on stage for Snoop and his entourage. A blonde with short white shorts and a black bra looks especially enticing, and it looks like Snoop agrees with me. There are also a half dozen who have absolutely no business being on stage, and should probably not be allowed to dance in public anywhere else for that matter. Iâ??ve been wondering in the back of my head where Warren G is, since I remember seeing his name attached to this show somewhere, when I realize theyâ??re halfway through â??Regulateâ?? and Iâ??ve been singing along to itâ?¦and now itâ??s over and heâ??s gone and Iâ??m sad but vaguely aware of someone yelling and I turn and a security guard is pointing wildly to the blunt that Iâ??m ashing on the floor and now sheâ??s screaming â??put it out!â?? so I mash it out on my tongue and stare blankly at her forehead and she seems put off by this so I sheepishly apologize and turn back toward the stage and continue to enjoy the music. And now Snoop starts in with â??Who Am I?â?? and the crowd below is swaying back and forth and theyâ??re really into it, but Iâ??m a little disappointed. It seems like Snoop is disinterested and mechanical compared to last year. Iâ??m lost in thought about this when I look down and see a red bucket being passed into the crowd by Snoop and I realize the show is over and, what? A red bucket? No! This canâ??t be happening, he canâ??t actually be asking the crowd for weed, can he? Heâ??s fallen this far? It canâ??t be, no. But it is, heâ??s practically begging now, oh God, no, oh fuck, donâ??t do it. And despite the fact that I generally enjoyed myself, and he played all his hits, I feel nauseous now. All happiness and pleasure is gone. I pull out whatâ??s left of my blunt and stare at it while the sickening realization that the crowd might not be chanting for an encore is because they, too, are stunned by the disheartening sight of Snoop Dogg, Tha Doggfather, The D-O Double G, walking back and forth at the front edge of the stage imploring the crowd for â??donationsâ?? of â??chronicâ?? like some amoral moocher lurking in the shadows of The Oasis. I throw my blunt on the ground and slowly walk away, entertained, confusedâ?¦and mostly saddened.

After reading that, I’m not impressed anymore. That’s the other thing. Read everything you write after letting it marinate for a while. Fuck. I hate deadlines. That’s the other thing about writing for a magazine. You have to crank shit out every motherfucking week, no matter what. Sometimes you don’t feel like writing but that doesn’t mean shit. You have to crank something out. In this case, I think what I wrote was due the very next morning so I had to write it that evening or early the next morning. I can’t remember.

If you can figure out a way to see into the future and know several weeks in advance what your assignments will be, you could write several articles at once, let them sit, and then revisit them later when the endorphin rush from writing isn’t exaggerating your own sense of self and convincing yourself that you’re the next Faulkner. Ego has always been a character defect of mine, so if you can find a way to minimize this if it’s a problem with you as well, that would be really beneficial to your writing.

That Snoop review was pretty good stuff

[quote]ChongLordUno wrote:
DB - Once again, your input is greatly appreciated.

I’ve created a blog and my goal is to crank out one piece of writing per day. I more or less created it for myself as a place to host my ramblings. In the past I would have kept it all on the downlow however have realised this is pointless as feedback is essential. More to do with self esteem and perception of my own skill level really.

Here’s the blog link.

http://www.cyrilsview.blogspot.co.uk/[/quote]

I like your style. My previous life as a copy editor has never quite left me, so I kept noticing grammatical errors, but that doesn’t really matter that much at this stage and that’s just me being obsessive-compulsive more than anything. Believe it or not, I fucking proofread about 85% of my own posts before sending them out, although lately I haven’t done that at all.

I liked the first one about Internet dating. One thing though, and this is hard to maintain in creative writing, is to remember to remain in one tense and don’t change tenses without indicating as much for the reader. Where you said " You should come up to mine" you then said “My head explodes”, which marked a shift from past tense to present tense and from there to the end you remain in present tense.

These are the sorts of things that allowing others to read your stuff will help with. Don’t let others tell you whether or not you should remain in present tense or past tense for the whole thing, only when you switch from one to the other. YOU get to decide what tense to use since that is an inherent part of your style.

I liked the second one as well, especially the part about comparing the clean to men of yesteryear wielding swords. In fact, that might be an area to mine further.

This thread is great, interesting stuff. Good luck OP. Put the extra time in, good things are bound to happen.

BTW DB, I read two books a week and my grammar sucks.

[quote]bond james bond wrote:
This thread is great, interesting stuff. Good luck OP. Put the extra time in, good things are bound to happen.

BTW DB, I read two books a week and my grammar sucks.

[/quote]

Mad Magazine doesn’t count as a book.

Seriously though, what do you mean by your grammar sucks? Do you have troubles with basic sentence structure, or is it simply things like spelling and where to place commas? Unless you have trouble writing sentences in ways in which people understand what it is you’re trying to say, it can’t be that bad.

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
I used to write professionally, so I suppose I’m qualified to offer some advice.

First off, it sounds like you are interested in creative writing as opposed to journalism. Regardless, you need to get used to writing everyday. That’s the first thing to do, and the most important.

What are you looking to write? A novel? Poetry? Short stories? Op-ed for the local paper?

Who is your intended audience? I used to write for a local magazine and although I had complete autonomy in terms of what I wrote (I had a weekly column and was also responsible for writing the front-page story when the editor thought the topic fit my style, which was probably every other week or so), I was constantly butting heads with the managing editor over who my articles and columns were geared toward. What I mean by that is that I never wrote in a manner that was all-inclusive.

I had an esoteric writing style and quite frankly, I didn’t give a fuck if what I wrote went over a lot of people’s heads because I didn’t write for the lowest common denominator. That’s the problem with print publication; the editor is always going to want you to write in a manner that allows the dumbest motherfucker in the crowd to get it. Rather than me dumbing down what I wrote, the dumb shits of the world should get up to speed was my attitude. Naturally, that and some censorship issues led to me seeking employment elsewhere and I eventually went back to school to earn my teaching credential.

But if you want to do strictly creative writing, such as novels/novellas and that sort of thing, I would recommend you write often and let others read your work. If you have an ego like mine, you’ll always be convinced that whatever you’re writing is the Absolute Fucking Shit.

Don’t be afraid to borrow from other writers’ styles, either. If you are a good natural writer it won’t come off as plagiarism or copying or anything like that. Good writers let others influence their own voice, but good writers have their own voice to begin with (that’s what makes naturally-good writers good writers). Let your personality show through your writing and when you let others read your work, don’t let their opinion on your STYLE sway you.

You are seeking their advice on how the plot or the characters or the pace at which the story unfolds, not their opinion on the way this is presented. If people don’t like that you use big words or lots of weird analogies or you write very economically or whatever, that’s their issue, not yours. You cannot please everyone with your style and those who like whatever natural style it is you write with are your general audience.

My mother will never like Hunter S. Thompson’s prose style or his “voice”, for instance.

Also, use words and sentence structure and that sort of thing that complement what is happening in the story. Short, simple sentences have a tendency to create the impression of speed or action or whatever when you are writing about something suspenseful. You won’t be able to hold someone’s suspense with long, drawn-out sentences. Likewise, in a scene calling for description, don’t be afraid to pull out some of the bigger words in your vocabulary and don’t be afraid to go into detail with longer sentences and that sort of shit.

One other thing: dialogue. Dialogue is really hard to write in a convincing, natural manner for many people. I can’t really think of anyone off the top of my head is great at dialogue, but it’s not that easy. Practice it as much as possible. Try writing down interesting conversations you’ve had or interesting exchanges you’ve had with people. Brett Easton Ellis’ dialogue scenes in “American Psycho” are pretty memorable. That whole fucking book is, really. But I digress.

Another thing that would really help if you are writing fiction is creating a little background story for each character. Perhaps a page or two for each character in a notebook.

But really, the most important thing in my opinion is to write every single day. Part of the reason I tend to write really long posts on here is that I like to write (I can also type very, very fast so these things don’t take me nearly as long as they would take almost anyone else on the site). You have to like writing to be a good writer, which sounds obvious enough. The other part that I personally feel is very important is to get used to writing in a conversational tone. That will help with the dialogue aspect and it makes it easier for people to read. I like to think that most of my long posts on here are easy to read through because I write with a very conversational tone.

If you get a chance, take a look at a couple of books by Hunter S. Thompson called “The Proud Highway” and “Fear and Loathing in America”. They are collections of letters he wrote to people, which is a pretty conversational style of writing when you think about it. Then re-read some of his better works and you’ll notice that the styles aren’t all that different at all when moving from his letters to his fictional work to his more standard, earlier journalism to his Gonzo journalism. [/quote]

Great post! Now I’m curious. can we read some of your more esoteric articles?

[quote]digitalairair wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
I used to write professionally, so I suppose I’m qualified to offer some advice.

First off, it sounds like you are interested in creative writing as opposed to journalism. Regardless, you need to get used to writing everyday. That’s the first thing to do, and the most important.

What are you looking to write? A novel? Poetry? Short stories? Op-ed for the local paper?

Who is your intended audience? I used to write for a local magazine and although I had complete autonomy in terms of what I wrote (I had a weekly column and was also responsible for writing the front-page story when the editor thought the topic fit my style, which was probably every other week or so), I was constantly butting heads with the managing editor over who my articles and columns were geared toward. What I mean by that is that I never wrote in a manner that was all-inclusive.

I had an esoteric writing style and quite frankly, I didn’t give a fuck if what I wrote went over a lot of people’s heads because I didn’t write for the lowest common denominator. That’s the problem with print publication; the editor is always going to want you to write in a manner that allows the dumbest motherfucker in the crowd to get it. Rather than me dumbing down what I wrote, the dumb shits of the world should get up to speed was my attitude. Naturally, that and some censorship issues led to me seeking employment elsewhere and I eventually went back to school to earn my teaching credential.

But if you want to do strictly creative writing, such as novels/novellas and that sort of thing, I would recommend you write often and let others read your work. If you have an ego like mine, you’ll always be convinced that whatever you’re writing is the Absolute Fucking Shit.

Don’t be afraid to borrow from other writers’ styles, either. If you are a good natural writer it won’t come off as plagiarism or copying or anything like that. Good writers let others influence their own voice, but good writers have their own voice to begin with (that’s what makes naturally-good writers good writers). Let your personality show through your writing and when you let others read your work, don’t let their opinion on your STYLE sway you.

You are seeking their advice on how the plot or the characters or the pace at which the story unfolds, not their opinion on the way this is presented. If people don’t like that you use big words or lots of weird analogies or you write very economically or whatever, that’s their issue, not yours. You cannot please everyone with your style and those who like whatever natural style it is you write with are your general audience.

My mother will never like Hunter S. Thompson’s prose style or his “voice”, for instance.

Also, use words and sentence structure and that sort of thing that complement what is happening in the story. Short, simple sentences have a tendency to create the impression of speed or action or whatever when you are writing about something suspenseful. You won’t be able to hold someone’s suspense with long, drawn-out sentences. Likewise, in a scene calling for description, don’t be afraid to pull out some of the bigger words in your vocabulary and don’t be afraid to go into detail with longer sentences and that sort of shit.

One other thing: dialogue. Dialogue is really hard to write in a convincing, natural manner for many people. I can’t really think of anyone off the top of my head is great at dialogue, but it’s not that easy. Practice it as much as possible. Try writing down interesting conversations you’ve had or interesting exchanges you’ve had with people. Brett Easton Ellis’ dialogue scenes in “American Psycho” are pretty memorable. That whole fucking book is, really. But I digress.

Another thing that would really help if you are writing fiction is creating a little background story for each character. Perhaps a page or two for each character in a notebook.

But really, the most important thing in my opinion is to write every single day. Part of the reason I tend to write really long posts on here is that I like to write (I can also type very, very fast so these things don’t take me nearly as long as they would take almost anyone else on the site). You have to like writing to be a good writer, which sounds obvious enough. The other part that I personally feel is very important is to get used to writing in a conversational tone. That will help with the dialogue aspect and it makes it easier for people to read. I like to think that most of my long posts on here are easy to read through because I write with a very conversational tone.

If you get a chance, take a look at a couple of books by Hunter S. Thompson called “The Proud Highway” and “Fear and Loathing in America”. They are collections of letters he wrote to people, which is a pretty conversational style of writing when you think about it. Then re-read some of his better works and you’ll notice that the styles aren’t all that different at all when moving from his letters to his fictional work to his more standard, earlier journalism to his Gonzo journalism. [/quote]

Great post! Now I’m curious. can we read some of your more esoteric articles? [/quote]

No. This and one other article (which I posted on here a while ago in one of the old “Best Pranks” threads) are the only two I have saved to a zip drive. Everything I’ve written that is worth reading was for print media, so I have the physical copies of every magazine saved in a box somewhere. I’m visiting my parents through the new year, so I don’t have access to those copies now. I suppose when I get back home I could just re-write them but I can’t do so now.

I’m not sure if I want to do that now, either. Like I mentioned earlier, these things never sound as good to me after reading them well after I’ve written them and since everything I wrote was under a strict deadline (which I was constantly butting right up against) I didn’t have the luxury of letting them sit for a few weeks and then return to them for further improvement. I have a huge ego, but it’s also very fragile.

I think I might have put some weird Valentine’s Day article I wrote on here at one point, now that I think about it. We were sitting around in a meeting and they needed a cover story to coincide with Valentine’s Day, which I wanted no part of, so when they asked me for an idea I tossed out the first thing that came to mind that I felt would be rejected with extreme prejudice. Much to my horror, it was accepted and the editor immediately assigned it to me since it was my idea and no one else wanted anything else to do with it either. I won’t tell you what it was about since that would ruin the article, but it was a very short story. My first attempt at pure fiction writing. There was about a 1200 word limit, so it might seem rushed or whatever since you can’t really write a substantial story in such few words when it’s your first attempt at fiction.

Search around on here and see if you can find it. Try putting “DBCooper Valentine’s Day” into the search engine. If you find it, feel free to post it in here. I haven’t read that one in years so I don’t remember exactly how it went but I’m sure I’ll think it’s complete diarrhetic drivel now, so I won’t search for it and contribute to my own embarrassment. I suppose if you find it I just DID contribute to my own embarrassment, but whatever. Have at it. Fuck, feel free to claim it as your own and try to pass it off as an original piece out there in Burma or Charlie Land or wherever you’re at these days.

P.S. I’ll be in South Korea for a year or so starting in August, possibly as early as June. We should get together and make some “art” when I get there. If you’re in the neighborhood, that is. How far from South Korea are you? Specifically, the Chungnam Province. Are there any Planet Fitness’ out there? I have a great idea for a video that we could make. I’ll need a cameraman, a spotter, a leather gimp outfit, a leather mask and a one-day pass.

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]bond james bond wrote:
This thread is great, interesting stuff. Good luck OP. Put the extra time in, good things are bound to happen.

BTW DB, I read two books a week and my grammar sucks.

[/quote]

Mad Magazine doesn’t count as a book.

Seriously though, what do you mean by your grammar sucks? Do you have troubles with basic sentence structure, or is it simply things like spelling and where to place commas? Unless you have trouble writing sentences in ways in which people understand what it is you’re trying to say, it can’t be that bad.[/quote]

Now that you mention it, I have two Mad paperback books, books my friend. Might even be collectible so there lol.

My problem is getting it down on paper. Every post seems like a struggle. One of you’re posts would take me literally hours, no joke. I stop, go back, change things, correct things that may not have been wrong but don’t feel right.

This post took ten minutes, that’s fucked up.

[quote]johnny k53 wrote:
I wouldn’t exactly call myself a writer, though I do enjoy it and have been told I have at least some aptitude for it, but I will say two things. There is an awful lot of truth in everything DB said, and I thought Stephen King’s On Writing was really well done. I’ve read it a few times and every time it inspires me to do some sort of writing. Something to look into. [/quote]

I’m also a professional writer. More a journalist you might say but I definitely do creative writing as well.

Write more. Then have someone edit it and point out your mistakes.

If you don’t have at least passable grammar, absolutely no one who knows what they’re doing will ever look at your stuff for more than three seconds, because it’s absolutely maddening.

What were your questions again?

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
I like your style. My previous life as a copy editor has never quite left me, so I kept noticing grammatical errors, but that doesn’t really matter that much at this stage and that’s just me being obsessive-compulsive more than anything. Believe it or not, I fucking proofread about 85% of my own posts before sending them out, although lately I haven’t done that at all.

I liked the first one about Internet dating. One thing though, and this is hard to maintain in creative writing, is to remember to remain in one tense and don’t change tenses without indicating as much for the reader. Where you said " You should come up to mine" you then said “My head explodes”, which marked a shift from past tense to present tense and from there to the end you remain in present tense.

These are the sorts of things that allowing others to read your stuff will help with. Don’t let others tell you whether or not you should remain in present tense or past tense for the whole thing, only when you switch from one to the other. YOU get to decide what tense to use since that is an inherent part of your style.

I liked the second one as well, especially the part about comparing the clean to men of yesteryear wielding swords. In fact, that might be an area to mine further. [/quote]

Thanks DB.

Your point regarding changing of tense is very interesting. It’s something I never considered and I appreciate it’s subtlety. It’s something I will look out for.

I am not using prompts of any sort as I am trying to make this process as painful as possible. Does that sound like a good idea? I find myself struggling to write lines however feel that this course of action will further enhance my powers of imagination in the long term.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
I’m also a professional writer. More a journalist you might say but I definitely do creative writing as well.

Write more. Then have someone edit it and point out your mistakes.

If you don’t have at least passable grammar, absolutely no one who knows what they’re doing will ever look at your stuff for more than three seconds, because it’s absolutely maddening.

What were your questions again?

[/quote]

Thanks for the input Irish. I don’t really have questions as such, just looking for general advice and feedback.

I’ve always wondered, when you guys have a creative peace that you want to write, do you start with an end in mind, or do you just go with the flow? Or is it something that each writer views differently?