[quote]marlboroman wrote:
a quick question regarding band tension for DE bench .
should the tension be zero at the bottom of the stroke ?[/quote]
No. There should always be tension at the bottom.
[quote]black_angus1 wrote:
[quote]marlboroman wrote:
a quick question regarding band tension for DE bench .
should the tension be zero at the bottom of the stroke ?[/quote]
No. There should always be tension at the bottom.[/quote]
alright…thanks Angus
A quick question to STB or anyone else - the book says one should use about 50-60% bar weight and 25% chain/band weight for speed work on squats. 25% of bar weight or 25% of box squat max with straight weight ?
edit: another question - jsut got back from the gym, did DE upper (first DE from accummulation) - managed to do twenty triples for 19:10min. Is this acceptable ? Also, my speed started to suffer big time after the 10th set, is this normal, or should I lower the weight ?
[quote]LoveSquatting wrote:
A quick question to STB or anyone else - the book says one should use about 50-60% bar weight and 25% chain/band weight for speed work on squats. 25% of bar weight or 25% of box squat max with straight weight ?
edit: another question - jsut got back from the gym, did DE upper (first DE from accummulation) - managed to do twenty triples for 19:10min. Is this acceptable ? Also, my speed started to suffer big time after the 10th set, is this normal, or should I lower the weight ?[/quote]
I generally do 25% of my squat, not box squat numbers though to be fair they’re very close together.
Regarding your DE accumulation work - sure it’s acceptable, now go out and beat the time next week. You’ll start seeing pretty big improvements. I am usually able to drop minutes off each week.
I can murder the time, but my speed will drop 
Seems like I’m gonna start using the 22lb chains again. I thought they were too much for me, but since it’s close to 25%, I’ll use em. Thanks.
LoveSquatting—If this is your first time using Accumulation, drop the chains all together. I just finished 4 weeks of a ccumulation and didnt touch a band or a chain the entire time. Start with 50%, get your time and then kick its ass the following week.
Your speed will suffer a bit in the begining, but it gets easier. My first week, i did 20 sets in like 17 minutes. By the 4th week, i did 27 sets in 14 minutes, and I had speed all the way until the 26 set. You get faster, stronger and bigger, trust me
Don’t let the speed drop. Improvement would be time going down speed staying the same.
I might actually do that. Let’s see what STB is gonna say.
STB, you said: “If you squat raw, box squating will not help your squat. No matter how you sit on it. It’s good for variation when you need a change but shouldnt be a staple movement for developing your raw squat. Because it wont.”
But I’m fairly sure you’ve also said that you should use a box even if raw in this thread.
This is kinda confusing. Can you shed some light on this?
[quote]michael_xyz wrote:
STB, you said: “If you squat raw, box squating will not help your squat. No matter how you sit on it. It’s good for variation when you need a change but shouldnt be a staple movement for developing your raw squat. Because it wont.”
But I’m fairly sure you’ve also said that you should use a box even if raw in this thread.
This is kinda confusing. Can you shed some light on this?[/quote]
Not STB, but as a raw only competitor I would only use box squats very occasionally to re-pattern my squat, not as a dedicated ME variation. They’re good to train newbies to squat with their hamstrings and ass like they should, but beyond that I question their value for raw guys.
[quote]RTJenforcer wrote:
[quote]michael_xyz wrote:
STB, you said: “If you squat raw, box squating will not help your squat. No matter how you sit on it. It’s good for variation when you need a change but shouldnt be a staple movement for developing your raw squat. Because it wont.”
But I’m fairly sure you’ve also said that you should use a box even if raw in this thread.
This is kinda confusing. Can you shed some light on this?[/quote]
Not STB, but as a raw only competitor I would only use box squats very occasionally to re-pattern my squat, not as a dedicated ME variation. They’re good to train newbies to squat with their hamstrings and ass like they should, but beyond that I question their value for raw guys.[/quote]
It’s just that a box adds in a lot of variety. Without it, there’s not really many different movements I can utilise as a raw squatter for ME squat movements. Also don’t own different kinds of bars or chains/bands so it’s all straight bar, straight weight.
[quote]michael_xyz wrote:
[quote]RTJenforcer wrote:
[quote]michael_xyz wrote:
STB, you said: “If you squat raw, box squating will not help your squat. No matter how you sit on it. It’s good for variation when you need a change but shouldnt be a staple movement for developing your raw squat. Because it wont.”
But I’m fairly sure you’ve also said that you should use a box even if raw in this thread.
This is kinda confusing. Can you shed some light on this?[/quote]
Not STB, but as a raw only competitor I would only use box squats very occasionally to re-pattern my squat, not as a dedicated ME variation. They’re good to train newbies to squat with their hamstrings and ass like they should, but beyond that I question their value for raw guys.[/quote]
It’s just that a box adds in a lot of variety. Without it, there’s not really many different movements I can utilise as a raw squatter. Also don’t own different kinds of bars or chains/bands so it’s all straight bar, straight weight.
[/quote]
With all due respect that’s probably something you should have thought about before you started a Westside program. Surely your program doesn’t fall apart if you take away one of your planned variations? I think the problem would be that it doesn’t really replicate your competition squat - whereas it would if you were an equipped lifter.
So you have a straight bar, you can do high bar squats and front squats, you can pick up a manta ray fairly cheaply by the time you’ve done those two - there’s 3 variations for you.
See what STB says.
Westside can be done without chains and bands - not as effective but it can be done. Plenty of variations for upper and lower and cheap alternatives to make more variations.
Box Squat (various height boxes)
Front Squat
High Bar Squat
Manta Ray Squat
Good Mornings
Pin Good Mornings
Bench
Incline Bench
Close Grip Bench
1/2/3 board bench (super cheap - I made boards 1-5 for under 20 bucks).
Bench off pins
Close grip incline
Overhead Press
All those can be done with relative ease and low cost. Buy a set of bands every now and then and over time you’ll have a decent amount of stuff with which to work with. I did westside for about half a year before I ever had access to specialty bars and saw great results.
[quote]RTJenforcer wrote:
[quote]michael_xyz wrote:
STB, you said: “If you squat raw, box squating will not help your squat. No matter how you sit on it. It’s good for variation when you need a change but shouldnt be a staple movement for developing your raw squat. Because it wont.”
But I’m fairly sure you’ve also said that you should use a box even if raw in this thread.
This is kinda confusing. Can you shed some light on this?[/quote]
Not STB, but as a raw only competitor I would only use box squats very occasionally to re-pattern my squat, not as a dedicated ME variation. They’re good to train newbies to squat with their hamstrings and ass like they should, but beyond that I question their value for raw guys.[/quote]
In 13 weeks using box for all DE work except the very last week before testing helped get me a 45lb squat PR. Granted, a lot of supp. work was front and oly squats. Most of my ME work was on a box too.
[quote]michael_xyz wrote:
[quote]RTJenforcer wrote:
[quote]michael_xyz wrote:
STB, you said: “If you squat raw, box squating will not help your squat. No matter how you sit on it. It’s good for variation when you need a change but shouldnt be a staple movement for developing your raw squat. Because it wont.”
But I’m fairly sure you’ve also said that you should use a box even if raw in this thread.
This is kinda confusing. Can you shed some light on this?[/quote]
Not STB, but as a raw only competitor I would only use box squats very occasionally to re-pattern my squat, not as a dedicated ME variation. They’re good to train newbies to squat with their hamstrings and ass like they should, but beyond that I question their value for raw guys.[/quote]
It’s just that a box adds in a lot of variety. Without it, there’s not really many different movements I can utilise as a raw squatter for ME squat movements. Also don’t own different kinds of bars or chains/bands so it’s all straight bar, straight weight.
[/quote]
You should have thought about that before you started, the conjugate for the most part you need some sort of accommadating resistance, and the box squat, with out it you are really doing the conjugate system. I currenly only own a straight bar and have made decent progress but i also own a set of bands as well as a box that i can build higher and lower. You can’t just plug stuff in the the conjugate system it accutally has to be thought out and numbers can’t just be thrown in.
[quote]michael_xyz wrote:
Also I’ve been watching some videos by Mark Bell and he says to do speed pulls fairly heavy - 70-80%. I’m a raw lifter (if that matters), would you recommend something higher for speed pulls?
Because you told me you very rarely deadlift for ME Lower (directed at STB) but I guess if you did 70-80% speed pulls then you wouldn’t have to pull often on ME days.
Currently I’m doing 115kg for 8x1 and I can pull 195kg. With Mark Bell’s recommendation I should do more like 130-140kg. What do you think of this?[/quote]
Honestly, I never go over 50% on speed pulls. Whatever works for you though. We are at completely different levels. My pull is pretty good because I can move heavy weights fast and am coordinated enough the put max force into lighter weights. I have read plenty of stuff that suggests beginners should use heavier weights because they lack the coordination required to exert max force with lighter weights. I don’t know if I agree with that 100%. The volume on speed day is key to the success of the entire program. When you jack up weights, you add more total volume, which if following the program correctly, means you will need more volume on Max Effort day as well. Especially in the Intensification Block where the highest realtive volumes and intensities are being used, this could be a disaster for someone just starting out with very low coniditioning.
Just move fast. The percentages are a guidline. Personally, my 95% looks like my 50%.I know if I pulled 95% on speed day every week, I’d probably end up putting a gun in my mouth before I made it to the meet. Mess around, see what works. I would STRONGLY suggest keeping it light on DE day though.
Does this help at all? Went off on a little tangent there.
[quote]michael_xyz wrote:
STB, you said: “If you squat raw, box squating will not help your squat. No matter how you sit on it. It’s good for variation when you need a change but shouldnt be a staple movement for developing your raw squat. Because it wont.”
But I’m fairly sure you’ve also said that you should use a box even if raw in this thread.
This is kinda confusing. Can you shed some light on this?[/quote]
Man, I used to be some kind of asshole. What the hell thread was that even in?
Anyway, yes you need to raw squat more on ME day if you are competing raw. And by more I mean, 1 or 2 ME workouts before you compete and for the entire Transformation Block. The remaining 90% of training or so, should be to a box. It does matter how you sit on it. I must have said that when I was still doing everything all wrong.
Box Squats allow you to:
Hit depth everytime
Use the right mechanics
More efficiently develop things like reactive and explosive strength
Improve flexability
and a million other things.
This doesnt mean you can’t squat for assistance work. I do this often when I have a raw meet coming up. Pause squats, front squats, using different bars, using different foot positions, concentric only squats, etc. all make great squat assistance work while still using box squats for ME work.
In the accumulation phase, could I pull triples? Louie says singles only in pulls.
[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:
It does matter how you sit on it.
[/quote]
STB, can you explain what you mean by this?
[quote]giterdone wrote:
[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:
It does matter how you sit on it.
[/quote]
STB, can you explain what you mean by this?[/quote]
Not STB, but he would have said the same thing.
You need to sit back, exaggerate the movement. When you free squat, you cannot go back as far as when squatting on a box, cause you would fall on the ground. When sitting as far back as possible, you engage the squatting muscles to a greater degree, thus building the free squat.