for box jumps I plan on adding them in after my ME lift for lower body. Should I do them before DE days and my extra DE workouts to? Im nervous too much jumping can burn out my CNS
Hey Storm!
I just got my bench shirt the other day and was thinking about going to a meet in 8 weeks. What I wanted to know is what would you think would be a good way to get enough work into the shirt while still adhering to a accumulation, intensification, transformation approach?
What I have planned is:
3 weeks Accumulation (focussing on TUT, 3-5RM’s, GPP)
3 weeks Intensification (shirt on ME bench day)
2 weeks Transformation (Shirt technique work 2 weeks out then meet just keep assistance stuff)
What I was thinking is doing shirt work on my DE UPPER days in the Intensification block after speed benching, not going to max just enough to touch on a 3 or a 2 board for a few singles or doubles to get more shirt work in…
If you got any imput it would be a lifesaver to know!
[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
I’ll have to give that style a shot. I have been bringing the bar down and towards my feet and not just down. Does this style put the empasis on different muscles?[/quote]
I feel it engages your lats more and puts me in a better position to complete the lift. I get a lot more speed off the chest and though my sticking point by doing this.
Flaring your arms out isn’t necessarily a bad thing, especially in a bench shirt, but you have to be disciplined to slowly flare them out at the right time.
[quote]Vladamir wrote:
for box jumps I plan on adding them in after my ME lift for lower body. Should I do them before DE days and my extra DE workouts to? Im nervous too much jumping can burn out my CNS[/quote]
Add them in bit by bit so you can see how you respond. You don’t need to go balls to the wall right from the start with jumping. Add to the ME days, see how you respond after 3 weeks or so, if you’re doing well and not feeling run down, feel free to try them on a DE day. Too often people decide they’re going to add stuff all the time and simply add way too much to the point they can’t recover.
[quote]Diluted56 wrote:
Hey Storm!
I just got my bench shirt the other day and was thinking about going to a meet in 8 weeks. What I wanted to know is what would you think would be a good way to get enough work into the shirt while still adhering to a accumulation, intensification, transformation approach?
What I have planned is:
3 weeks Accumulation (focussing on TUT, 3-5RM’s, GPP)
3 weeks Intensification (shirt on ME bench day)
2 weeks Transformation (Shirt technique work 2 weeks out then meet just keep assistance stuff)
What I was thinking is doing shirt work on my DE UPPER days in the Intensification block after speed benching, not going to max just enough to touch on a 3 or a 2 board for a few singles or doubles to get more shirt work in…
If you got any imput it would be a lifesaver to know![/quote]
Generally leading up to a meet I’d have longer intensification and no accumulation, just my 2 cents. Furthermore, if you only just now got your shirt, you may not be ready for it in 8 weeks, especially if it’s your first go in a shirt. It’s going to take 5-6 weeks just to break in enough so you can touch most likely. I’d save the shirt for another meet.
[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
[quote]frankjl wrote:
[quote]simonsky96 wrote:
[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:
Your trying to go too fast on the eccentric. Control it you’re just letting it slap you in the chest. Bring your toes neutral you’re losing hip drive because of that. You’re not tight at all in your upper back and you’re groove is all over the place. [/quote]
regarding the toes, that’s the farthest I can bring them in without putting my feet in closer which, in my experience, would be less stable for me…
any cues for being tight in the upper body? I don’t know if the weights too light but on ME days, I don’t move an inch probably because the heavy weights staple me to the bench…[/quote]
I think it’s a form issue. You start with the bar over your eyes, then lower the bar to your mid/lower chest, then back up over your face. The effect of this is, the bar is travelling faster than your arms are able to flare & tuck. Your elbows are just flying all over the place.
Check out this video, notice how his elbows stay tucked and the bar just kind of goes up and down – not back towards his face.
[/quote]
I’ll have to give that style a shot. I have been bringing the bar down and towards my feet and not just down. Does this style put the empasis on different muscles?[/quote]
I bench this way as well. Too much elbow flare completely unlocks my upper back.
[quote]louiek wrote:
@STB or anyone who knows: Eating big/too much seems to be much more necessary in this system in comparison to something like 5/3/1, which works obviously. How would you suggest someone trying to stay in a certain weight class and/or drop to a weight class eat while training Westside?[/quote]
You are what you eat. Eat like shit and you will be shit. If you are trying to stay in a weight class, then eat enough to stay in the weight class. Get a good nutrition book like power eating, nutrient timing, anything that isn’t fucking paleo, and follow that.
People put way too much emphasis into training being the main determining factor in their weight. The truth is, it’s 99% diet. I lost 51lbs in 15 weeks while training westside. Dropped from 280 to 229 to compete at the night of the living dead 2 years ago. Training was basically the same as it is now for me at 285-290. The difference? While dropping the weight, I had a diet so strict it would probably kill a normal person. Now, I don’t give a shit and want to be as strong as I possibly can.
You don’t need a ‘cutting’ or ‘bulking’ plan or anything like that. Just eat good food, eat a lot of it, and train really hard.
[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:
Are you intending on doing it AFTER a set of say 8x2? Using more band/chain compared to straight weight isn’t bad, and I’ll often run a true speed cycle when I’m running a circa-max cycle where I use around 20% straight weight and 40-50% band or chain, but again I’m still running 8x2-12x2 or so. If you’re talking about working up to a heavy single that is heavy because of the chain/bands and foregoing true dynamic work then I’d say pass on that. If you want to do it, still run your 8x2 either as I mentioned with low straight weight high band/chain and then just keep adding chain/band as you go for a heavy single AFTER your speed work. Just my 2 cents. Yes I realize I’m not STB.[/quote]
First, I’d like to clarify what I mean by “heavy”. I don’t mean anything that will be a slow grinder rep, it would still be a speed rep, there’s just going to be a shit ton of band tension.
For example, here’s what one of the guys from my powerlifting club has done for his speed squat training (this was actually a few months ago, he’s a 430 squatter or so at 148):
190x3x3
230x2x3
270x1x2
Plus mini bands (~37lb tension at top) on all sets. He got 410 at our most recent competition, so that equals about 75% of his 1rm for the last set.
By comparison, my last dynamic effort squat session was 220x8x2, plus mini bands (~40lb at top) on all sets. I got 456 at that same meet, which puts my at 57% of my best competition lift for all sets.
I think that if I switch to something more like the above, I might be able to fit the goals of speed work in the intensification block a bit better. I’d like to use my monster mini bands (about 65lb at the top) with maybe 275 on the bar to get around 75% of my 1rm, and work up to that for a single or two. I also might use both my minis and monster minis (~105lb combined at the top) and use maybe 200lb of bar weight, which would again be about 75%.
I still have another week of my accumulation block to do, so I’m not blindly going in to the next block. It’d still like more input on this. Maybe it’s a terrible idea, maybe I can get something out of it.
Give it a try, only way to really find out if it’ll work. Plenty of people work up to a heavy single after DE work, just usually with straight weight, not with band/chain weight. Like I said, give it a try and feel free to let us know how it goes.
Haven’t been here in a while and it’s the first time I’ve seen this thread - so much time for this!
Had a little read through and loving the thread Storm, keen to get involved in some discussion.
Just wondering how do you guys work up to your max of the day? Do you decide your max of the day just by an estimate of how you are feeling that day? Im am used to treat it like its time to set records on ME day. But from research Wendler says you should do 3-5 reps at or above 90%. So how you do schedule your sets so you can get the lifts above 90% in?
Got a question about using sumo instead of conventional. I pull conventional and only once or twice tried doing sumo.
Just wondering what the benefits would be of doing sumo - even if I still pulled conventional in a meet. Also, how often should I use sumo for speed pulls and max effort? Just a rough guide. I don’t want to get out of touch with conventional which is worry but using it here and there seems like it might be decent to change it up a bit.
[quote]michael_xyz wrote:
Got a question about using sumo instead of conventional. I pull conventional and only once or twice tried doing sumo.
Just wondering what the benefits would be of doing sumo - even if I still pulled conventional in a meet. Also, how often should I use sumo for speed pulls and max effort? Just a rough guide. I don’t want to get out of touch with conventional which is worry but using it here and there seems like it might be decent to change it up a bit.[/quote]
My understanding is that the guys at westside do both and they choose the one their better at for comp.
Also I’ve been watching some videos by Mark Bell and he says to do speed pulls fairly heavy - 70-80%. I’m a raw lifter (if that matters), would you recommend something higher for speed pulls?
Because you told me you very rarely deadlift for ME Lower (directed at STB) but I guess if you did 70-80% speed pulls then you wouldn’t have to pull often on ME days.
Currently I’m doing 115kg for 8x1 and I can pull 195kg. With Mark Bell’s recommendation I should do more like 130-140kg. What do you think of this?
[quote]michael_xyz wrote:
Also I’ve been watching some videos by Mark Bell and he says to do speed pulls fairly heavy - 70-80%. I’m a raw lifter (if that matters), would you recommend something higher for speed pulls?
Because you told me you very rarely deadlift for ME Lower (directed at STB) but I guess if you did 70-80% speed pulls then you wouldn’t have to pull often on ME days.
Currently I’m doing 115kg for 8x1 and I can pull 195kg. With Mark Bell’s recommendation I should do more like 130-140kg. What do you think of this?[/quote]
Yep, go heavier, you can maybe go up to 150. I pull 140 max and still have insane speed at 110 :).
[quote]michael_xyz wrote:
Also I’ve been watching some videos by Mark Bell and he says to do speed pulls fairly heavy - 70-80%. I’m a raw lifter (if that matters), would you recommend something higher for speed pulls?
Because you told me you very rarely deadlift for ME Lower (directed at STB) but I guess if you did 70-80% speed pulls then you wouldn’t have to pull often on ME days.
Currently I’m doing 115kg for 8x1 and I can pull 195kg. With Mark Bell’s recommendation I should do more like 130-140kg. What do you think of this?[/quote]
“Speed deadlifts: This means do explosive singles at 50â??70% of your max. These are done
after dynamic box squats and are not necessary performed every week. The usual speed deadlift
workout would be 5â??6x1 with 50â??60% of our best in the meet.” - pg.59 of the book of methods.
I usually pull with 70%.
Does anyone here do any oly lifting along with their program? My setup includes a log press day instead of DE upper, and I was debating with myself on how to go easy on my accumulation block. 3-5rm doesn’t seem ideal, so I was thinking I’d just do 3-5 singles at 90%. Would like some input if anyone’s got something to say.
[quote]Vladamir wrote:
Just wondering how do you guys work up to your max of the day? Do you decide your max of the day just by an estimate of how you are feeling that day? Im am used to treat it like its time to set records on ME day. But from research Wendler says you should do 3-5 reps at or above 90%. So how you do schedule your sets so you can get the lifts above 90% in? [/quote]
I usually do something like I am in a meet. A shit ton of volume at lower weights, medium size bumps for my heavier warm ups, and then three attempts, hopefully setting a PR on the second or third. Once you set a PR, you’re done. If you don’t get a PR…well, we just covered that in the last page or so.
To the question about sumo pulling: I’m not sure what STB or somebody with more knowledge than me might say, but if you always pull conventional in competition/your DE days, I think that pulling sumo for a max effort day once every four weeks would be acceptable. The weight will be lower than your conventional pull, so it won’t be as CNS intensive, and if you seriously suck at it, then you should probably do it more often. Do the stuff you suck at.
On the topic, a couple of guys in my powerlifting club have done some sumo pulling for the past few months or so, and they’ve made some pretty quick gains. I don’t know how much it has carried over to their conventional pull, but it certainly can’t hurt. I’ve been told that I should try out sumo, as I squat pretty wide (especially for raw) and most wide squatters can sumo pretty well. I may try it out sometime.
a quick question regarding band tension for DE bench .
should the tension be zero at the bottom of the stroke ?
@ Sumo Question
I pull Sumo in competiion and I do most of my pulling Sumo but most of my accessory work if im pulling from the floor or from pins will be conv. i do all my deficiet work sumo, i also add a Conv pull about every 6 weeks depending on what everyone else on the team is doing