[quote]S.Fisher_47 wrote:
With traction/mobility work, I was wondering if I could substitute a light band for 2 mini bands? Since the light and average bands I have are the short ones.
[/quote]
Two short minis at 24 inches is 94.4 lbs tension whereas a light short at 24 inches is 87.3 inches. Not a huge difference, though something to be aware of. I doubt 7.1 lbs is going to be a huge issue but be aware of it.
So today I put some 2x6s under my feel and really focused on the tips in the deathless blog - pulling the bar out and keeping my toes pointed- and hit a 35lb PR on my 2 board press 3RM. So I’m happy about that.
My question of the day is: StormtheBeach, earlier you mentioned that 3-5 rep max efforts are for building strength and 1-3 RM build coordination, or something to that effect. I’m probably getting this completely wrong, as I tend to do.
So, if I don’t plan on following my current Intensification block with a Transformation block, but instead go back and do another Accumulation block, can I stick with 3-5RMs during this Intensification block and do 1-3 rep maxes when I plan to follow it with a Transformation block (and a meet)? How about if I split the difference and go for 3 rep maxes on the Intensification?
My apologies for my horrible wording. You’re probably bleeding from eyes after reading that.
I didn’t have the time or money for a meet so I did sort of meet in my gym.
Squat:
355x1
385x1
405x1 before the 13 week westside style block: 360
Bench
225x1
255x1
275x1 before: 265
Deadlift
405x1
455x1 before: multiple singles with 455
475xmiss
I did all 3 in 1.5 to 2 hours. I’ve never done all 3 in row before so I’m thinking that might have something to do with why the bench and DL aren’t doing as well as the squat.
The squat was hardest at mid range. There wasn’t any GMing, back stayed arched good. Just straining where my hams and quads took over, but still got through and left maybe 5-10lbs in the tank for the other lifts.
The bench was hard all the way through, but especially at the bottom. It was hard to keep steady there on the descent and where I struggled the most on the ascent.
The deadlift was lost at the ground. Positioning was ok, just didn’t have it. In the past, deficit work and accomodating resistance worked and I didn’t do that this time.
I think I just need a little more lat and bottom end work for the bench. Maybe a little more chest work. In the past, bottom end work has gotten the bench to 300.
For the squat, I was thinking maybe more high box squats. Perhaps running a cycle of high DE box squats.
In general, I felt like my lats and upper back were giving out the most as I ran out of steam making it really hard to stay tight on bench and almost impossible on DL.
Does this assessment sound about right?
Also, thank you immensely to STB and others. You helped my squat get out of a rut that was over 8 months long.
edit: My hips were rocking back and forth (as opposed to side to side) a tiny bit in the hole with the squat. I have no clue what’ll fix that. It’s something I felt more than was visible from the vid I took. I can post that vid when I get a data cable.
[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
The squat was hardest at mid range. There wasn’t any GMing, back stayed arched good. Just straining where my hams and quads took over, but still got through and left maybe 5-10lbs in the tank for the other lifts.
The bench was hard all the way through, but especially at the bottom. It was hard to keep steady there on the descent and where I struggled the most on the ascent.
The deadlift was lost at the ground. Positioning was ok, just didn’t have it. In the past, deficit work and accomodating resistance worked and I didn’t do that this time.
edit: My hips were rocking back and forth (as opposed to side to side) a tiny bit in the hole with the squat. I have no clue what’ll fix that. It’s something I felt more than was visible from the vid I took. I can post that vid when I get a data cable.[/quote]
Here’s my two cents, take it for what it’s worth:
If you’re able to stay in proper position when you stall in the squat, then it sounds like to me that you just need to become more explosive. Keep on working on your dynamic work, and you might just have to straight up get stronger. I failed at that exact spot on a 480 squat last October.
Bench needs more lat/upper back work, it seems.
As for your hips in the hole, that sounds like a technique issue. Sit back more and get tighter in your setup. If you’re weak off the bottom of your deadlift, that’s usually technique. I’d also suggest doing more full ROM pulling, if you aren’t already.
STB: What do you think of working to a “top” set for speed work during the intensification block? i.e. put a ton of band tension/chains on the bar, and work up to the highest weight that I can do, while still keeping it pretty fast? As opposed to something like 8x2 or 10x1 like one would typically do.
[quote]Chicksan wrote:
Im looking for examples for Intensification blocks, any help would be great. I just finished 4 weeks of accumulation and Im ready for the heavy shit. Ive read up on the Circa-Max, but everything I read says you dont do that unless you can squat 3 times your bodyweight, im 50lbs away. Any examples would be great, thank you[/quote]
EDIT: I was wrong sorry hehe…
I just pattern my intensification block from what STB said earlier in the thread: a normal speed-strength cycle w/acc. resistance (didn’t use one on accumulation) and my ME days are now 1-3RM.
As for assistance, variations tend to be more lift specific (ex. from DB to barbell or another squat/bench/deadlift of some sort) and also up the intensity by doing less reps.
[quote]black_angus1 wrote:
STB: What do you think of working to a “top” set for speed work during the intensification block? i.e. put a ton of band tension/chains on the bar, and work up to the highest weight that I can do, while still keeping it pretty fast? As opposed to something like 8x2 or 10x1 like one would typically do.
[/quote]
Are you intending on doing it AFTER a set of say 8x2? Using more band/chain compared to straight weight isn’t bad, and I’ll often run a true speed cycle when I’m running a circa-max cycle where I use around 20% straight weight and 40-50% band or chain, but again I’m still running 8x2-12x2 or so. If you’re talking about working up to a heavy single that is heavy because of the chain/bands and foregoing true dynamic work then I’d say pass on that. If you want to do it, still run your 8x2 either as I mentioned with low straight weight high band/chain and then just keep adding chain/band as you go for a heavy single AFTER your speed work. Just my 2 cents. Yes I realize I’m not STB.
Could you guys critique my form? I did 8 sets of 3 with 3 grips. I also worked up in the end.
My main problem that I see is I seem to be rocking during my DE sets but not on my heavy-ish attempts. I consciously think of staying tight in the lower body and driving my traps to the bench but to no avail. Any other cues?
Your trying to go too fast on the eccentric. Control it you’re just letting it slap you in the chest. Bring your toes neutral you’re losing hip drive because of that. You’re not tight at all in your upper back and you’re groove is all over the place.
To be fair I’ve seen some Westside videos and some of the guys there do go fast as hell for the eccentric so I think that isn’t an issue.
But I do agree with the rest. You need to stay a lot tighter.
I do have the same problem though. I find it a lot easier to stay tighter for a 90%+ set than when I’m just warming up with 30%.
[quote]S.Fisher_47 wrote:
With traction/mobility work, I was wondering if I could substitute a light band for 2 mini bands? Since the light and average bands I have are the short ones.
[/quote]
Get a pair of longer bands. You need TONS of tension to get the most out of the traction/distraction with bands. I will seriously choke off a strong band and stretch it 5 or 6 feet for some mobility drills. An average band and a light band should be plenty.
[quote]michael_xyz wrote:
To be fair I’ve seen some Westside videos and some of the guys there do go fast as hell for the eccentric so I think that isn’t an issue.
But I do agree with the rest. You need to stay a lot tighter.
I do have the same problem though. I find it a lot easier to stay tighter for a 90%+ set than when I’m just warming up with 30%.[/quote]
You can go fast, IF you can control it. He’s not. Westside guys are in a bit of a different level than most here so finding some control on the eccentric and not just playing slapchest with the bar would be a better idea. Sacrifice a bit of speed in that portion allowing yourself to get some technical work in as well on DE days.
EDIT: found answer
[quote]Razamataz wrote:
So today I put some 2x6s under my feel and really focused on the tips in the deathless blog - pulling the bar out and keeping my toes pointed- and hit a 35lb PR on my 2 board press 3RM. So I’m happy about that.
My question of the day is: StormtheBeach, earlier you mentioned that 3-5 rep max efforts are for building strength and 1-3 RM build coordination, or something to that effect. I’m probably getting this completely wrong, as I tend to do.
So, if I don’t plan on following my current Intensification block with a Transformation block, but instead go back and do another Accumulation block, can I stick with 3-5RMs during this Intensification block and do 1-3 rep maxes when I plan to follow it with a Transformation block (and a meet)? How about if I split the difference and go for 3 rep maxes on the Intensification?
My apologies for my horrible wording. You’re probably bleeding from eyes after reading that.
[/quote]
You can do whatever you want. I would strongly suggest doing at least one session for each competition lift where you work up to a 1rm.
Even if you arent competing for a while, you still want to at the very least maintain some coordination under heavy weights. So, say you go through 5 weeks of accumulation, then go into an intensification block. At least 3 max effort workouts (2 Lower and 1 Upper) need to be working up to a 1rm in a squat, bench, or deadlift variaiton. I would consider this a BARE minimum.
Does this make sense?
[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:
[quote]Razamataz wrote:
So today I put some 2x6s under my feel and really focused on the tips in the deathless blog - pulling the bar out and keeping my toes pointed- and hit a 35lb PR on my 2 board press 3RM. So I’m happy about that.
My question of the day is: StormtheBeach, earlier you mentioned that 3-5 rep max efforts are for building strength and 1-3 RM build coordination, or something to that effect. I’m probably getting this completely wrong, as I tend to do.
So, if I don’t plan on following my current Intensification block with a Transformation block, but instead go back and do another Accumulation block, can I stick with 3-5RMs during this Intensification block and do 1-3 rep maxes when I plan to follow it with a Transformation block (and a meet)? How about if I split the difference and go for 3 rep maxes on the Intensification?
My apologies for my horrible wording. You’re probably bleeding from eyes after reading that.
[/quote]
You can do whatever you want. I would strongly suggest doing at least one session for each competition lift where you work up to a 1rm.
Even if you arent competing for a while, you still want to at the very least maintain some coordination under heavy weights. So, say you go through 5 weeks of accumulation, then go into an intensification block. At least 3 max effort workouts (2 Lower and 1 Upper) need to be working up to a 1rm in a squat, bench, or deadlift variaiton. I would consider this a BARE minimum.
Does this make sense?[/quote]
Perfect sense. Thank you.
[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:
[quote]LoveSquatting wrote:
Starting an accummulation phase on monday, here’s my plan, critisize, please!!
Phase is gonna be 4 weeks
ME upper - 3x5, 2x3 on the main lift - total of 5 lifts above 90%
ME lower - 3x5, 2x3 on the main lift - total of 5 lifts above 90%
DE upper - 20x3
DE lower - 20x2SQ, 20x1DL
2 weeks squats, 2 weeks DLs
DLs are gonna be - 3x5, 2x3 on the first week of DLs and max rep test on the 2nd week of DLs at about 70-80% of 1rm
SQ/DL/SQ/DL
Upper is gonna be regular/floor/regular/floor
Lower is gonna be regularSQ/regularDL/boxSQ/regularDL
Can’t wait to try the DE lower days, loving having a hard time taking a shit!
Sounds good ?[/quote]
Looks solid. My only suggestions is if you want extra rep work on your main ME lift, save it until after you’ve established your 5 or 3rm. Say you hit 500 for 5. Figure out 70-80% of that, then do your 3x5 and 2x3 sets.
Anything over 90% can be considered max effort work. But you have no idea what 90% is going to be from week to week. The only way to keep the system at 100% intensity, year round, is to etablish a max everytime you train for Max Efforts.
Does this make sesne?
Other than that, looks really good. And yes, after the first day of squats, you will have a very hard time maintaining basic life function.[/quote]
Seems legit. I’ve a question tho. How do you work up to a 5rm or a 3rm ? When I’m going for a 1rm (lets say its 500), I go like this:
2x5@bar
1-2x5@135
1x5@225
1x3@315
1x1@405
1x1@~480
go for a 1rm, fail or not and then do a few triples at 90%+
How should I go for a 3-5rm (answer in %s, please) ?
Also, did DLs as a special exercise after my ME squats today, went for max reps at weight ~75% for some grip work as well as posterior chain. Is this any good ? Also, did some hercules holds (strongman event).
[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:
Your trying to go too fast on the eccentric. Control it you’re just letting it slap you in the chest. Bring your toes neutral you’re losing hip drive because of that. You’re not tight at all in your upper back and you’re groove is all over the place. [/quote]
regarding the toes, that’s the farthest I can bring them in without putting my feet in closer which, in my experience, would be less stable for me…
any cues for being tight in the upper body? I don’t know if the weights too light but on ME days, I don’t move an inch probably because the heavy weights staple me to the bench…
[quote]simonsky96 wrote:
[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:
Your trying to go too fast on the eccentric. Control it you’re just letting it slap you in the chest. Bring your toes neutral you’re losing hip drive because of that. You’re not tight at all in your upper back and you’re groove is all over the place. [/quote]
regarding the toes, that’s the farthest I can bring them in without putting my feet in closer which, in my experience, would be less stable for me…
any cues for being tight in the upper body? I don’t know if the weights too light but on ME days, I don’t move an inch probably because the heavy weights staple me to the bench…[/quote]
I think it’s a form issue. You start with the bar over your eyes, then lower the bar to your mid/lower chest, then back up over your face. The effect of this is, the bar is travelling faster than your arms are able to flare & tuck. Your elbows are just flying all over the place.
Check out this video, notice how his elbows stay tucked and the bar just kind of goes up and down – not back towards his face.
[quote]frankjl wrote:
[quote]simonsky96 wrote:
[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:
Your trying to go too fast on the eccentric. Control it you’re just letting it slap you in the chest. Bring your toes neutral you’re losing hip drive because of that. You’re not tight at all in your upper back and you’re groove is all over the place. [/quote]
regarding the toes, that’s the farthest I can bring them in without putting my feet in closer which, in my experience, would be less stable for me…
any cues for being tight in the upper body? I don’t know if the weights too light but on ME days, I don’t move an inch probably because the heavy weights staple me to the bench…[/quote]
I think it’s a form issue. You start with the bar over your eyes, then lower the bar to your mid/lower chest, then back up over your face. The effect of this is, the bar is travelling faster than your arms are able to flare & tuck. Your elbows are just flying all over the place.
Check out this video, notice how his elbows stay tucked and the bar just kind of goes up and down – not back towards his face.
[/quote]
I’ll have to give that style a shot. I have been bringing the bar down and towards my feet and not just down. Does this style put the empasis on different muscles?
@STB or anyone who knows: Eating big/too much seems to be much more necessary in this system in comparison to something like 5/3/1, which works obviously. How would you suggest someone trying to stay in a certain weight class and/or drop to a weight class eat while training Westside?
[quote]frankjl wrote:
[quote]simonsky96 wrote:
[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:
Your trying to go too fast on the eccentric. Control it you’re just letting it slap you in the chest. Bring your toes neutral you’re losing hip drive because of that. You’re not tight at all in your upper back and you’re groove is all over the place. [/quote]
regarding the toes, that’s the farthest I can bring them in without putting my feet in closer which, in my experience, would be less stable for me…
any cues for being tight in the upper body? I don’t know if the weights too light but on ME days, I don’t move an inch probably because the heavy weights staple me to the bench…[/quote]
I think it’s a form issue. You start with the bar over your eyes, then lower the bar to your mid/lower chest, then back up over your face. The effect of this is, the bar is travelling faster than your arms are able to flare & tuck. Your elbows are just flying all over the place.
Check out this video, notice how his elbows stay tucked and the bar just kind of goes up and down – not back towards his face.
Wow thanks! That makes a fuckton of sense. I think I’m rocking because I’m somehow heaving the bar up towards my face which carries my body up as well.
All this time I thought I’m pressing the bar in a straight line. Thanks man.