The Westside Method Thread

Training Powerlifting
441

[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:

[quote]simonsky96 wrote:

[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:

[quote]michael_xyz wrote:
It was definitely parallel.

The only thing I can think of is form. But like I said, I’ve read that if you’re a raw lifter it’s better to do box squats similar to your free squat - so without pushing your hips WAAAAAAY back like Westside do. Even so, I would have thought breaking up the movement and relaxing would lose some of that stretch reflex so should be weaker anyway. I wasn’t rocking or anything either. So maybe that explains some kind of strength and weakness I possess if it’s the case for me?[/quote]

It’s definitely NOT more beneficial for raw squatting. Squatting wide and sitting back harder will make your raw squat go up. Squatting narrow and doing a free squat with a box under you completely defeats the purpose of box squatting. No one likes boax squatting this way because its really really hard… which should tell you something.[/quote]

If you are DE day also serves as a “practice” for the competition lifts, why can’t a form similar to your free squat be used?

Also, I’ve seen the old westside DVD’s and louie lists close stance box squatting even as an ME movement(though I think it’s done raw). What would be the cons doing “not wide” box squat?[/quote]

For DE work, it is ok as the competition gets closer to use a stance the is closer to your competition stance. With gear, withour gear it doesn’t matter. What matters later in training is specificity and transfer to sport. What matters early in training is developing weaknesses. Everyone sucks at box squats when they are done correctly. Doing the same squat, with the same height, with the same stance, year round, is just shitty programming.

You can do whatever you want for ME work as long as it is working on something you are bad at. So a close stance, raw, low box squat would be great for lower back and quad strength (i.e. the start of a deadlift) while a wide, raw low box squat would be much more benenficial to the hips and hamstrings (more mimicing the abbduction/global extension required for squatting).

Again, if your raw box squat is the same as or more than your raw free squat, you are doing something wrong.[/quote]

That or maybe theyre scared of max weight…

442

I was thinking for speed pulls to do conventional for a 3 week wave at 50%,55%,60%, then the next 3 weeks i will do it in sumo. While i am doing conventional I will do sumo rack pulls for 6-8 reps for assistance and vice versa. I will be doing them for mainly to keep my hips being worked every week plus to gain size because I am still skinny. Will this work?

443

Sup yall. Just did ME lower and maxed out in box squats. My free squat max is 110kg and I reached 105 (85 free weight and 20kg chains) in box squats. My stance box squat stance isn’t very wide, cause the squat rack is fucking narrow and there’s no way in hell I could do 10 steps back with 90% of 1rm on my back. Is the free squat-box squat ratio fine ? The box was maybe half an inch above paralel.

Also, STB, could you critisize my ME lower body workout ?
Did 6 lifts at above 90% (2x80+20, 1x80+20, 1x83+20, 1x85+20, 1x80+20) in the box squat
3 sets of GMs
3 sets of hyperextensions
2 sets of pull-throughs
4 sets of abs
Thanks in advance.

444

[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:

[quote]simonsky96 wrote:

[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:

[quote]michael_xyz wrote:
It was definitely parallel.

The only thing I can think of is form. But like I said, I’ve read that if you’re a raw lifter it’s better to do box squats similar to your free squat - so without pushing your hips WAAAAAAY back like Westside do. Even so, I would have thought breaking up the movement and relaxing would lose some of that stretch reflex so should be weaker anyway. I wasn’t rocking or anything either. So maybe that explains some kind of strength and weakness I possess if it’s the case for me?[/quote]

It’s definitely NOT more beneficial for raw squatting. Squatting wide and sitting back harder will make your raw squat go up. Squatting narrow and doing a free squat with a box under you completely defeats the purpose of box squatting. No one likes boax squatting this way because its really really hard… which should tell you something.[/quote]

If you are DE day also serves as a “practice” for the competition lifts, why can’t a form similar to your free squat be used?

Also, I’ve seen the old westside DVD’s and louie lists close stance box squatting even as an ME movement(though I think it’s done raw). What would be the cons doing “not wide” box squat?[/quote]

For DE work, it is ok as the competition gets closer to use a stance the is closer to your competition stance. With gear, withour gear it doesn’t matter. What matters later in training is specificity and transfer to sport. What matters early in training is developing weaknesses. Everyone sucks at box squats when they are done correctly. Doing the same squat, with the same height, with the same stance, year round, is just shitty programming.

You can do whatever you want for ME work as long as it is working on something you are bad at. So a close stance, raw, low box squat would be great for lower back and quad strength (i.e. the start of a deadlift) while a wide, raw low box squat would be much more benenficial to the hips and hamstrings (more mimicing the abbduction/global extension required for squatting).

Again, if your raw box squat is the same as or more than your raw free squat, you are doing something wrong.[/quote]

Fuck I can’t tell if my free squat is more or not because I’ve gained 15 lbs since I got taken out of wrestling. In that time I didn’t free or box squat. So last time I free squatted the best I’d every gotten was 215x2 and like 175x10 I think, I’d have to look back. I just yesterday hit a 260x3 SSB Box Squat onto 12" w/ hands on the rack. And I gained 15lbs, not sure how much was fat certainly doesn’t look like a ton of it.

So do you think both my free and box squat went up or I’m box squatting wrong?

445

[quote]Vladamir wrote:
I was thinking for speed pulls to do conventional for a 3 week wave at 50%,55%,60%, then the next 3 weeks i will do it in sumo. While i am doing conventional I will do sumo rack pulls for 6-8 reps for assistance and vice versa. I will be doing them for mainly to keep my hips being worked every week plus to gain size because I am still skinny. Will this work? [/quote]

Try it out, if you get bigger and stronger in 6 months, then it worked. Make sure to eat your face off if you are trying to get bigger.

446

[quote]LoveSquatting wrote:
Sup yall. Just did ME lower and maxed out in box squats. My free squat max is 110kg and I reached 105 (85 free weight and 20kg chains) in box squats. My stance box squat stance isn’t very wide, cause the squat rack is fucking narrow and there’s no way in hell I could do 10 steps back with 90% of 1rm on my back. Is the free squat-box squat ratio fine ? The box was maybe half an inch above paralel.

Also, STB, could you critisize my ME lower body workout ?
Did 6 lifts at above 90% (2x80+20, 1x80+20, 1x83+20, 1x85+20, 1x80+20) in the box squat
3 sets of GMs
3 sets of hyperextensions
2 sets of pull-throughs
4 sets of abs
Thanks in advance.[/quote]

I would worry about your box squat ratio when working to box higher than parallel. You will still get stronger training on a box that height but it will be very hard to get a correlation going with your free squat.

Yout training looks solid. I would suggest trying to keep weights above 90% to 3-4 attempts only. If you can do 6 and still hit prs and not feel like shit all the time, then go for it.

447

[quote]PlainPat wrote:

[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:

[quote]simonsky96 wrote:

[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:

[quote]michael_xyz wrote:
It was definitely parallel.

The only thing I can think of is form. But like I said, I’ve read that if you’re a raw lifter it’s better to do box squats similar to your free squat - so without pushing your hips WAAAAAAY back like Westside do. Even so, I would have thought breaking up the movement and relaxing would lose some of that stretch reflex so should be weaker anyway. I wasn’t rocking or anything either. So maybe that explains some kind of strength and weakness I possess if it’s the case for me?[/quote]

It’s definitely NOT more beneficial for raw squatting. Squatting wide and sitting back harder will make your raw squat go up. Squatting narrow and doing a free squat with a box under you completely defeats the purpose of box squatting. No one likes boax squatting this way because its really really hard… which should tell you something.[/quote]

If you are DE day also serves as a “practice” for the competition lifts, why can’t a form similar to your free squat be used?

Also, I’ve seen the old westside DVD’s and louie lists close stance box squatting even as an ME movement(though I think it’s done raw). What would be the cons doing “not wide” box squat?[/quote]

For DE work, it is ok as the competition gets closer to use a stance the is closer to your competition stance. With gear, withour gear it doesn’t matter. What matters later in training is specificity and transfer to sport. What matters early in training is developing weaknesses. Everyone sucks at box squats when they are done correctly. Doing the same squat, with the same height, with the same stance, year round, is just shitty programming.

You can do whatever you want for ME work as long as it is working on something you are bad at. So a close stance, raw, low box squat would be great for lower back and quad strength (i.e. the start of a deadlift) while a wide, raw low box squat would be much more benenficial to the hips and hamstrings (more mimicing the abbduction/global extension required for squatting).

Again, if your raw box squat is the same as or more than your raw free squat, you are doing something wrong.[/quote]

Fuck I can’t tell if my free squat is more or not because I’ve gained 15 lbs since I got taken out of wrestling. In that time I didn’t free or box squat. So last time I free squatted the best I’d every gotten was 215x2 and like 175x10 I think, I’d have to look back. I just yesterday hit a 260x3 SSB Box Squat onto 12" w/ hands on the rack. And I gained 15lbs, not sure how much was fat certainly doesn’t look like a ton of it.

So do you think both my free and box squat went up or I’m box squatting wrong?[/quote]

Don’t be that guy. The hands on the rack with the SSB guy.

You got a 60lb PR with a very difficult bar and that is frusterating to you? I wouldnt worry about it. Keep smashing weights at whatever your body wants you to weigh. Weight classes are stupid anyway.

448

is it alright to do powercleans after my DE squats and deadlifts? like work up to a 3 rep max on powercleans after I squat and dl on DE day?

449

[quote]XArena wrote:
is it alright to do powercleans after my DE squats and deadlifts? like work up to a 3 rep max on powercleans after I squat and dl on DE day?[/quote]

What is your reasoning for doing that?

450

[quote]frankjl wrote:

[quote]XArena wrote:
is it alright to do powercleans after my DE squats and deadlifts? like work up to a 3 rep max on powercleans after I squat and dl on DE day?[/quote]

What is your reasoning for doing that?[/quote]

It’s just an exercise I enjoy doing, and one of my goals is a 225 powerclean by July.

451

[quote]XArena wrote:

[quote]frankjl wrote:

[quote]XArena wrote:
is it alright to do powercleans after my DE squats and deadlifts? like work up to a 3 rep max on powercleans after I squat and dl on DE day?[/quote]

What is your reasoning for doing that?[/quote]

It’s just an exercise I enjoy doing, and one of my goals is a 225 powerclean by July. [/quote]

Dont’t do it after squats and pulls. Do them immediately aftr your warm-up. I almost always do some sort of explosive plyometric exercise before the main lift of the day. Cleans are a nice change from all the pounding of hard and heavy jumping. They are very low stress as well. Hitting a max and then doing your workout shouldnt be a problem.

452

[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:

[quote]XArena wrote:

[quote]frankjl wrote:

[quote]XArena wrote:
is it alright to do powercleans after my DE squats and deadlifts? like work up to a 3 rep max on powercleans after I squat and dl on DE day?[/quote]

What is your reasoning for doing that?[/quote]

It’s just an exercise I enjoy doing, and one of my goals is a 225 powerclean by July. [/quote]

Dont’t do it after squats and pulls. Do them immediately aftr your warm-up. I almost always do some sort of explosive plyometric exercise before the main lift of the day. Cleans are a nice change from all the pounding of hard and heavy jumping. They are very low stress as well. Hitting a max and then doing your workout shouldnt be a problem.

[/quote]

Alright, thanks STB!

453

[quote]MaxCooper wrote:

[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:

[quote]MaxCooper wrote:

Hi guys, ive just taped myself on my first week of an accumulation phase on DE squats and noticed (among other things) that my back is rounded on squats.

ive put the video in the post the problem is there on both reps but most noticable on the second, what can i do to fix this with my assistance work? Is it normally a strength factor in my lower back or could it also be a hamstring tightness

for the Accumulation phase, when you say little accumulating resistance is this 0 to a very small amount or the 25% reccommended for Speed strength?
and finally when would a person use a strength-speed wave?
Cheers[/quote]

  1. Make sure you warm up your hips and hamstrings
  2. Flex your lats harder
  3. Widen your stance if you can
  4. Push your knees out harder

It’s a technique and positioning issue, not a strength issue.

I would suggest zero tension or chains. Thats a good rule to have though, if you do want to use it, keep it under 25%

Use the Strength-Speed wave sometime later in training, like the last 2-3 weeks before you go into the transformation block.

Personally, I like to do a three week cycle, deload, do a regular 3 week speed strength cycle, then go into my Transformation Block (which is only 2 weeks). This is just what works best for me though, you’ll have to mess around with the timing to see what works best for you (this may take a couple competitions to dial it in).[/quote]

thanks for the help[/quote]
Hey Max, what make of bar is that? We had one very simmilar (weird barends & odd collars) and always called it the Russian bar (not sure why though). I’d be interested as I’m a bit of a geek that way.

454

[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:

[quote]LoveSquatting wrote:
Sup yall. Just did ME lower and maxed out in box squats. My free squat max is 110kg and I reached 105 (85 free weight and 20kg chains) in box squats. My stance box squat stance isn’t very wide, cause the squat rack is fucking narrow and there’s no way in hell I could do 10 steps back with 90% of 1rm on my back. Is the free squat-box squat ratio fine ? The box was maybe half an inch above paralel.

Also, STB, could you critisize my ME lower body workout ?
Did 6 lifts at above 90% (2x80+20, 1x80+20, 1x83+20, 1x85+20, 1x80+20) in the box squat
3 sets of GMs
3 sets of hyperextensions
2 sets of pull-throughs
4 sets of abs
Thanks in advance.[/quote]

I would worry about your box squat ratio when working to box higher than parallel. You will still get stronger training on a box that height but it will be very hard to get a correlation going with your free squat.

Yout training looks solid. I would suggest trying to keep weights above 90% to 3-4 attempts only. If you can do 6 and still hit prs and not feel like shit all the time, then go for it.[/quote]

I was thinking of changing box height every week, cause my box is not really a box, it’s rather 4 45s and some sort of mini box that short people use to reach the pull up bar. 4 45s and the mini box are about an inch above parallel. I was thinking of using 4 plates, 3 plates, 5 plates for three weeks and the fourth week deadlifting.
In the westside book of methods I saw Louie mention that the attempts above 90% should be 3-5, and in some article written by some russian coach I read they should be 5-7, so I figured the truth must be in the middle so I keep em 4-7, depending on how I feel. It’s my 2nd week now and I feel too hardcore to lower the attempts :slight_smile: Let’s see how it goes the first month and I might reduce them. STB, you rock.

455

[quote]LoveSquatting wrote:

[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:

[quote]LoveSquatting wrote:
Sup yall. Just did ME lower and maxed out in box squats. My free squat max is 110kg and I reached 105 (85 free weight and 20kg chains) in box squats. My stance box squat stance isn’t very wide, cause the squat rack is fucking narrow and there’s no way in hell I could do 10 steps back with 90% of 1rm on my back. Is the free squat-box squat ratio fine ? The box was maybe half an inch above paralel.

Also, STB, could you critisize my ME lower body workout ?
Did 6 lifts at above 90% (2x80+20, 1x80+20, 1x83+20, 1x85+20, 1x80+20) in the box squat
3 sets of GMs
3 sets of hyperextensions
2 sets of pull-throughs
4 sets of abs
Thanks in advance.[/quote]

I would worry about your box squat ratio when working to box higher than parallel. You will still get stronger training on a box that height but it will be very hard to get a correlation going with your free squat.

Yout training looks solid. I would suggest trying to keep weights above 90% to 3-4 attempts only. If you can do 6 and still hit prs and not feel like shit all the time, then go for it.[/quote]

I was thinking of changing box height every week, cause my box is not really a box, it’s rather 4 45s and some sort of mini box that short people use to reach the pull up bar. 4 45s and the mini box are about an inch above parallel. I was thinking of using 4 plates, 3 plates, 5 plates for three weeks and the fourth week deadlifting.
In the westside book of methods I saw Louie mention that the attempts above 90% should be 3-5, and in some article written by some russian coach I read they should be 5-7, so I figured the truth must be in the middle so I keep em 4-7, depending on how I feel. It’s my 2nd week now and I feel too hardcore to lower the attempts :slight_smile: Let’s see how it goes the first month and I might reduce them. STB, you rock.
[/quote]

Good, you are now thinking in the right direction. haha.

Mess around with your attempts over 90% and see what you can handle. Personally, anymore than 4 attmepts for a couple weeks and I feel like a plane crashed on me.

456

That statemenet automatically leads to my next question. Do you count, for example, 3x500, 3x500, 3x500 as 3 attempts or 9 attempts ? I’m currently counting that as 9 attempts/lifts o.o

457

[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:

[quote]XArena wrote:

[quote]frankjl wrote:

[quote]XArena wrote:
is it alright to do powercleans after my DE squats and deadlifts? like work up to a 3 rep max on powercleans after I squat and dl on DE day?[/quote]

What is your reasoning for doing that?[/quote]

It’s just an exercise I enjoy doing, and one of my goals is a 225 powerclean by July. [/quote]

Dont’t do it after squats and pulls. Do them immediately aftr your warm-up. I almost always do some sort of explosive plyometric exercise before the main lift of the day. Cleans are a nice change from all the pounding of hard and heavy jumping. They are very low stress as well. Hitting a max and then doing your workout shouldnt be a problem.

[/quote]

I reckon the same applies to power and hang snatches? My shoulders always feel better when I have them in somewhere.

458

When you’re in the accumulation phase, would it be better to choose on big movement (ex RDL) and do 10x10(GVT) for that movement after the ME or DE movement? I imagine that you could do just one movement for 10x10 that work a big group of muscles instead of doing 3-4 sets of different exercises.

I’ve read that it can improve on conditioning because you are only taking 60 seconds of rest between sets, and in the accumulation phase you’re supposed to work on conditioning and hypertrophy etc

459

Work on conditioning/work capacity during your DE work, i.e. 25x3 or 25x2 - for time. Use your accessory stuff to fix weaknesses, promote hypertrophy, etc. If your conditioning still sucks doing that for DE, start adding in sled pulling/prowler pushing/farmers/odd implement carries/etc. etc.

460

[quote]XArena wrote:
When you’re in the accumulation phase, would it be better to choose on big movement (ex RDL) and do 10x10(GVT) for that movement after the ME or DE movement? I imagine that you could do just one movement for 10x10 that work a big group of muscles instead of doing 3-4 sets of different exercises.

I’ve read that it can improve on conditioning because you are only taking 60 seconds of rest between sets, and in the accumulation phase you’re supposed to work on conditioning and hypertrophy etc[/quote]

Yeah but by doing that you wouldn’t work all the things you suck at, only one…