The Westside Method Thread

Training Powerlifting
461

[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:

[quote]Volstagg wrote:
I am getting ready to start a new wave of DE squats and deads. I squat in the low 500’s and deadlift in the high 500’s. I will be wearing a suit with straps down for all sets.
squats:
Wk 1 50% 2x12
Wk 2 55% 2x12
Wk 3 60% 2x10

deads:
Wk 1 50% 1x10
Wk 2 55% 1x10
Wk 3 60% 1x10

Wk 4 I will work up to an opener, then deload for a week, and compete Feb 12 in Tokyo.

I just finished up with the same percentages and light bands. I want to use chains at 60lbs per side, is this too much? If so, what should I go with? Thanks.[/quote]

Looks solid. I would suggest throwing another chain on if you have them available. Personally, I’m not a huge fan of hitting openers, or even the competition lifts, in trining. Your Dynamic effort plan looks really good though.[/quote]

This was awesome, I used 80 lbs of chain per side. Everything moved fast and I’m feeling real confident I will PR at the competition. Thanks STB for the advice.
I have the a question for DE upper. My max raw bench is 365, I’ve hit I just finished up with a wave of DE upper, using a fat bar:

Wk 1 50% + 60 lbs of chain per side
Wk 2 55% + 60 lbs of chain per side
Wk 3 60% + 60 lbs of chain per side
Wk 4 deload with dumbell RE work

I am going to be doing all ME (Sat) work in a shirt (sp) from here on out. I compete in 30 days. How would you set up your DE (Tue) training for the last month prior to competing? Thanks.

462

[quote]LoveSquatting wrote:
That statemenet automatically leads to my next question. Do you count, for example, 3x500, 3x500, 3x500 as 3 attempts or 9 attempts ? I’m currently counting that as 9 attempts/lifts o.o[/quote]

If you are going for a 3rm, count each set as one attempt. Even though its 3 reps, its still ‘x’ percent of your max

463

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:

[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:

[quote]XArena wrote:

[quote]frankjl wrote:

[quote]XArena wrote:
is it alright to do powercleans after my DE squats and deadlifts? like work up to a 3 rep max on powercleans after I squat and dl on DE day?[/quote]

What is your reasoning for doing that?[/quote]

It’s just an exercise I enjoy doing, and one of my goals is a 225 powerclean by July. [/quote]

Dont’t do it after squats and pulls. Do them immediately aftr your warm-up. I almost always do some sort of explosive plyometric exercise before the main lift of the day. Cleans are a nice change from all the pounding of hard and heavy jumping. They are very low stress as well. Hitting a max and then doing your workout shouldnt be a problem.

[/quote]

I reckon the same applies to power and hang snatches? My shoulders always feel better when I have them in somewhere.[/quote]

Yep. You want that kind of work to be done first because it has to be max speed (you don’t want to be fatigued or else you’ll go slower) and they are very technical movements.

464

[quote]XArena wrote:
When you’re in the accumulation phase, would it be better to choose on big movement (ex RDL) and do 10x10(GVT) for that movement after the ME or DE movement? I imagine that you could do just one movement for 10x10 that work a big group of muscles instead of doing 3-4 sets of different exercises.

I’ve read that it can improve on conditioning because you are only taking 60 seconds of rest between sets, and in the accumulation phase you’re supposed to work on conditioning and hypertrophy etc[/quote]

As long as there is a clear distinction between volume and intensity between each block, you can do whatever you want for assistance work. Even with 10x10, I would still suggest hitting some abs, grip, and hamstring work before your training session is over.

465

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:
Work on conditioning/work capacity during your DE work, i.e. 25x3 or 25x2 - for time. Use your accessory stuff to fix weaknesses, promote hypertrophy, etc. If your conditioning still sucks doing that for DE, start adding in sled pulling/prowler pushing/farmers/odd implement carries/etc. etc.[/quote]

This is good advice as well. There are about a trillion ways to skin a cat. Even when you find methods that make you stronger, those methods are probably only going to work for a couple months, at most, then you need to start doing something else.

466

[quote]Volstagg wrote:

[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:

[quote]Volstagg wrote:
I am getting ready to start a new wave of DE squats and deads. I squat in the low 500’s and deadlift in the high 500’s. I will be wearing a suit with straps down for all sets.
squats:
Wk 1 50% 2x12
Wk 2 55% 2x12
Wk 3 60% 2x10

deads:
Wk 1 50% 1x10
Wk 2 55% 1x10
Wk 3 60% 1x10

Wk 4 I will work up to an opener, then deload for a week, and compete Feb 12 in Tokyo.

I just finished up with the same percentages and light bands. I want to use chains at 60lbs per side, is this too much? If so, what should I go with? Thanks.[/quote]

Looks solid. I would suggest throwing another chain on if you have them available. Personally, I’m not a huge fan of hitting openers, or even the competition lifts, in trining. Your Dynamic effort plan looks really good though.[/quote]

This was awesome, I used 80 lbs of chain per side. Everything moved fast and I’m feeling real confident I will PR at the competition. Thanks STB for the advice.
I have the a question for DE upper. My max raw bench is 365, I’ve hit I just finished up with a wave of DE upper, using a fat bar:

Wk 1 50% + 60 lbs of chain per side
Wk 2 55% + 60 lbs of chain per side
Wk 3 60% + 60 lbs of chain per side
Wk 4 deload with dumbell RE work

I am going to be doing all ME (Sat) work in a shirt (sp) from here on out. I compete in 30 days. How would you set up your DE (Tue) training for the last month prior to competing? Thanks.[/quote]

Everyone is different in terms of recovery capabilities so this is by no means a perfect plan for peaking for a meet. What I do looks something like this:

Week 4: Normal Speed Strength work
Week 3: Normal Speed Strength work
Week 2: Drop the bands and chains- 50% for 10x3- still do heavy assistance work
Week 1: Meet Week- Drop heavy assistance work on tuesday, run a full mock meet on wednesday with 30% for 6-8 singles on each lift, light assistanc work. Thursday- Light full body assistance work. Friday- Mobility. Saturday- Wreck shit.

467

Thanks again. I am looking forward to wrecking shit. This will be my first meet over here, besides bench compititions on the Marine base. Hell, my first sanctioned meet anywhere with no-shit judges. I have to pay them quite a bit to watch me lift, so I better get it right. I am looking forward to seeing some crazy shit from some of these Japanese lifters.

468

Ive done alot of reading on Westside training, but after going through this entire thread more than a few times, its clear to me that I havent done near enough. I compete next weekend and after that, Im looking forward to applying some of the things Ive learned from this thread to my training. I think it will only make me faster and stronger. A big THANKS to everyone who has contributed and lets keep this thread alive.

469

[quote]Boffin wrote:

[quote]MaxCooper wrote:

[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:

[quote]MaxCooper wrote:

Hi guys, ive just taped myself on my first week of an accumulation phase on DE squats and noticed (among other things) that my back is rounded on squats.

ive put the video in the post the problem is there on both reps but most noticable on the second, what can i do to fix this with my assistance work? Is it normally a strength factor in my lower back or could it also be a hamstring tightness

for the Accumulation phase, when you say little accumulating resistance is this 0 to a very small amount or the 25% reccommended for Speed strength?
and finally when would a person use a strength-speed wave?
Cheers[/quote]

  1. Make sure you warm up your hips and hamstrings
  2. Flex your lats harder
  3. Widen your stance if you can
  4. Push your knees out harder

It’s a technique and positioning issue, not a strength issue.

I would suggest zero tension or chains. Thats a good rule to have though, if you do want to use it, keep it under 25%

Use the Strength-Speed wave sometime later in training, like the last 2-3 weeks before you go into the transformation block.

Personally, I like to do a three week cycle, deload, do a regular 3 week speed strength cycle, then go into my Transformation Block (which is only 2 weeks). This is just what works best for me though, you’ll have to mess around with the timing to see what works best for you (this may take a couple competitions to dial it in).[/quote]

thanks for the help[/quote]
Hey Max, what make of bar is that? We had one very simmilar (weird barends & odd collars) and always called it the Russian bar (not sure why though). I’d be interested as I’m a bit of a geek that way.[/quote]

I dont know mate, just a decent bar, think its an olympic lifting bar but i really dont know, its in Olympic Sports Gym in Manchester if you ever end up there

470

Sup yall,
Just did DE bench - MOV00034 - YouTube that’s my 3rd set of the narrow grip (actually that’s my ME grip). Is it fast enough ? It’s my 2nd week with about 55% of 1rm (50kg on the bar, max is 90kg).
Also did about 12 sets of low intensity tris work and about 10 sets of low intensity upperback work. Is that a good amount of volume ? Thanks in advance.
EDIT: Also, is my technique decent ? Anything I should change ? Thanks in advance.

471

[quote]LoveSquatting wrote:
Sup yall,
Just did DE bench - MOV00034 - YouTube that’s my 3rd set of the narrow grip (actually that’s my ME grip). Is it fast enough ? It’s my 2nd week with about 55% of 1rm (50kg on the bar, max is 90kg).
Also did about 12 sets of low intensity tris work and about 10 sets of low intensity upperback work. Is that a good amount of volume ? Thanks in advance.
EDIT: Also, is my technique decent ? Anything I should change ? Thanks in advance.[/quote]

2 things I see:

-Try to get more of your bodyweight up on the top of your traps/back of your neck. When you are getting set-up drive hard through your heels and push your self up onto your traps. You’ve got some wasteful movement when you are moving the bar (your body is wiggling around) so getting set-up tighter will fix that.

-You didn’t lock your third rep out and your shoulders got very loose at the top. After you press your third one, let the bar settle before you put it back into the rack. This will teach you how to bench fast while still staying tight.

Other than that, speed looks good. Keep it up!

472

Thanks! Looking forward to my next DE bench. Gonna put a DE squat tomorrow, if I don’t forget. STB, thanks for everything you doing man, don’t let this thread die, or the person who ruins it DIES.

473

i have been reading this from the start and i dont remember this question yet, when is westside good to do? and i mean do you need much if any experience to be able to do it.

i will use me as an example. most my entire life i was an endurance athlete but still lifted to get that edge in competition. so i have around 15 years of lifting experience. then i got a desk job, got married, had a kid, etc., bla, bla.

after about 4 years of sitting on my ass i started lifting again which just shy of a year ago. in september i started training out of a private gym with strongman and powerlifting competitors. they have already taken all my lifts higher then anything i have ever done. even adding 125lbs to my dead so far from my past PR.

one of the guys has taken me under his wing and is helping me with a program to prep for my next meet in july. he has me only doing speed work on the deadlift using Coan. i did that last year with a huge improvement and it did speed up my pulls dramatically.

i keep asking him about a ME and separate DE day. he keeps telling me i am not ready. that i need to learn to use my muscles first. that i just need to get stronger and the only thing that needs speed work is my dead and even then i dont need to do it on a separate day.

so when is too early to use westside?

474

[quote]asooneyeonig wrote:

so when is too early to use westside? [/quote]

I kinda have the same question, although I know I’ve seen multiple people advocate westside even for beginners.

My plan right now is to keep doing what I’m doing as long as it works (breaking some kind of rep PR every week) and studying up. For now.

475

I feel, and I could be wrong, that anyone can benefit from this program. Its all mathamtically based, so whether you bench 100lbs or 1000lbs, geared or raw, you can gain from it. Id stear clear of bands and chains for a spell in the begining, but even Dave Tate wrote band and chain cycles for people with less than a years training experience for his Bench Press Manual.

You get out of the program what you put into it. Are you really straining on ME days? Are you moving that weight as fast as you possibly can on DE days? Are you doing your assistance moves, your extra workouts? If not, maybe Westside isnt for you

476

I e-mailed Louie Simmons about it and he said anyone can do westside whether you never benched before or hold records. But I think anyone who is going to start out needs to study and read the articles on the web before starting it.

477

I came across an article on louie called “Westside Rules” in the Oct? 2007 issue of Flex mag and really started to put it to use starting Halloween of 2010. I ran it verbatim for 1 year and made solid gains without injury.
About 70# per lift.

I have since used it for some of my clients and they too are finding success with it…Louie had written an article about using the system for beginners to elites, stating why start off someone wrong when you can teach them proper technique and programming from the get-go. Good luck and thanks once again for this thread STB !

478

I’ll try and add to some of those beginner comments, if I can. Some of the percentages should be different. Louie has been lowering DE %s constantly as his athletes have been getting stronger and more efficient.

With that said, I think some beginners could move up some on the percentages, like DE day. Not too high, but if it seems like my clients are not getting gassed after the DE exercise I bump up the weight 5% or so, depending. They just aren’t efficient yet and might need a little more stimulus.

I do have 1 question related to DE and ME. Could anyone touch up on some differences between the 2 with exercises execution?
I think louie said something about keeping DE box squats at or 1 in below parallel. He said to make the ME box squat from 3-4in below, though. Are there any other distinctions between the DE and ME like this one that come to mind?

479

[quote]asooneyeonig wrote:
i have been reading this from the start and i dont remember this question yet, when is westside good to do? and i mean do you need much if any experience to be able to do it.

i will use me as an example. most my entire life i was an endurance athlete but still lifted to get that edge in competition. so i have around 15 years of lifting experience. then i got a desk job, got married, had a kid, etc., bla, bla.

after about 4 years of sitting on my ass i started lifting again which just shy of a year ago. in september i started training out of a private gym with strongman and powerlifting competitors. they have already taken all my lifts higher then anything i have ever done. even adding 125lbs to my dead so far from my past PR.

one of the guys has taken me under his wing and is helping me with a program to prep for my next meet in july. he has me only doing speed work on the deadlift using Coan. i did that last year with a huge improvement and it did speed up my pulls dramatically.

i keep asking him about a ME and separate DE day. he keeps telling me i am not ready. that i need to learn to use my muscles first. that i just need to get stronger and the only thing that needs speed work is my dead and even then i dont need to do it on a separate day.

so when is too early to use westside? [/quote]

It’s never too early. The programming and exercise selection will be a little different and there needs to be a huge emphasis on GPP early on in training. You also need to be smart about yout training. Its very easy to find one of the assinine squat everyday programs on the internet, plug in your numbers and get after it. It is much harder to train optimally, expending the least amount of time and energy to achieve the maximial training effect.

480

[quote]Chicksan wrote:
I feel, and I could be wrong, that anyone can benefit from this program. Its all mathamtically based, so whether you bench 100lbs or 1000lbs, geared or raw, you can gain from it. Id stear clear of bands and chains for a spell in the begining, but even Dave Tate wrote band and chain cycles for people with less than a years training experience for his Bench Press Manual.

You get out of the program what you put into it. Are you really straining on ME days? Are you moving that weight as fast as you possibly can on DE days? Are you doing your assistance moves, your extra workouts? If not, maybe Westside isnt for you[/quote]

Awesome.