The Westside Method Thread II

Training Powerlifting
61

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:

[quote]Chicksan wrote:
Work and real life has kindof gotten in the way these past few weeks and is making getting to the gym 4-5 times a week rather difficult. Its really hit or miss on what days I can get there, how much energy Ill have, will I have my daughters with me, stuff like that.

If you were only able to get in two good lifts a week, would doing your speed work, then working up to a heavy double or single, then do your assistance work be enough to get by for 4-6 weeks? Work is blowing up, plus im getting married in 3 weeks, so time and cash is limited. Thanks for the input[/quote]

I’d combo the days.

ME work
DE work
Asst

One for upper, one for lower. Ideal? Nope. Going to help minimize losses? Yup. I’ve done it before when work/life gets a bit hectic with relatively positive results.[/quote]

Why ME work first?

62

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:

[quote]Chicksan wrote:
Work and real life has kindof gotten in the way these past few weeks and is making getting to the gym 4-5 times a week rather difficult. Its really hit or miss on what days I can get there, how much energy Ill have, will I have my daughters with me, stuff like that.

If you were only able to get in two good lifts a week, would doing your speed work, then working up to a heavy double or single, then do your assistance work be enough to get by for 4-6 weeks? Work is blowing up, plus im getting married in 3 weeks, so time and cash is limited. Thanks for the input[/quote]

I’d combo the days.

ME work
DE work
Asst

One for upper, one for lower. Ideal? Nope. Going to help minimize losses? Yup. I’ve done it before when work/life gets a bit hectic with relatively positive results.[/quote]

Why ME work first?[/quote]

Tried doing DE work first and found that I was simply too tired to make decent ME work and I was having a lot of technical break down. When I moved ME first I was able to maintain the same technical proficiency in both ME and DE work. I did work at a lower % for the DE work compared to when I placed DE prior so as to keep the rate of force development and bar speed high.

63

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:

[quote]Chicksan wrote:
Work and real life has kindof gotten in the way these past few weeks and is making getting to the gym 4-5 times a week rather difficult. Its really hit or miss on what days I can get there, how much energy Ill have, will I have my daughters with me, stuff like that.

If you were only able to get in two good lifts a week, would doing your speed work, then working up to a heavy double or single, then do your assistance work be enough to get by for 4-6 weeks? Work is blowing up, plus im getting married in 3 weeks, so time and cash is limited. Thanks for the input[/quote]

I’d combo the days.

ME work
DE work
Asst

One for upper, one for lower. Ideal? Nope. Going to help minimize losses? Yup. I’ve done it before when work/life gets a bit hectic with relatively positive results.[/quote]

Why ME work first?[/quote]

Tried doing DE work first and found that I was simply too tired to make decent ME work and I was having a lot of technical break down. When I moved ME first I was able to maintain the same technical proficiency in both ME and DE work. I did work at a lower % for the DE work compared to when I placed DE prior so as to keep the rate of force development and bar speed high.[/quote]

That sounds like damn good advice, thank you. As long as I can make it 2 days, thats exactly what Ill do until things slow down

64

I have a shoulder prehab question. Should I do the prehab stuff before or after an upper body workout? I usually do rotator work with ten and fifteen lb dumbells.

65

[quote]S.Fisher_47 wrote:
I have a shoulder prehab question. Should I do the prehab stuff before or after an upper body workout? I usually do rotator work with ten and fifteen lb dumbells.[/quote]

I do both. Before the workout, I don’t let the muscles fatigue any I just get them warm. And after, that’s when I’ll actually work the muscle some.

One of my favorite warmups is what I call “mini band wall climbers”. I double a mini band, put it around my wrist and move my hands every which direction on a wall while maintaining at least a little tension on the band the whole time.

66

I am noticing within my 3 week waves, mainly on max effort bench day, the second week of these waves feel extra heavy. I have noticed this in the last couple of 3 week waves I have done. Basically have just been working up to a max effort on a different exercise each week, nothing special. Any thoughts on the possibility of why? Could it just be wrong exercise selection, order or intensity? I am still thinking I need to stop being a bitch about it, but its been constantly happening…

67

[quote]asooneyeonig wrote:

[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:
Everyone is different. Everything I suggest is simply a guideline to figure out what works best for you and your training.[/quote]

the biggest problem i am having is find those lift variations that will directly/indirectly help my main 3 lifts. even more so on the upper body.

this brought me to another thought. how many alternate exercises are good to have? i assume newer lifters having 1-3 would be fine. and as you advance through the years those may even change and having upwards of 4-5 would work better.

[/quote]

nobody threw in on this , so I’ll speak up . my current cycle went thru 5 ME variations for upper and lower each . I ended up repeating a couple towards the intensification block . next cycle will see 6 each…just enough to allow for weekly rotation thru 3 weeks of accumulation and 3 weeks of intensification…no repeats .

and I would consider my lifts to fall in the “new lifter” category .

try some pin presses for ME upper . frikkin’ rocks . talk about doing something ya suck at…very humbling .

68

[quote]marlboroman wrote:

[quote]asooneyeonig wrote:

[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:
Everyone is different. Everything I suggest is simply a guideline to figure out what works best for you and your training.[/quote]

the biggest problem i am having is find those lift variations that will directly/indirectly help my main 3 lifts. even more so on the upper body.

this brought me to another thought. how many alternate exercises are good to have? i assume newer lifters having 1-3 would be fine. and as you advance through the years those may even change and having upwards of 4-5 would work better.

[/quote]

nobody threw in on this , so I’ll speak up . my current cycle went thru 5 ME variations for upper and lower each . I ended up repeating a couple towards the intensification block . next cycle will see 6 each…just enough to allow for weekly rotation thru 3 weeks of accumulation and 3 weeks of intensification…no repeats .

and I would consider my lifts to fall in the “new lifter” category .

try some pin presses for ME upper . frikkin’ rocks . talk about doing something ya suck at…very humbling .[/quote]

That is pretty much the best answer you can give for that question. Experiment with exercises and only do the ones you are really really bad at.

69

Yo STB nice reactive strength article. I was wondering should we do those jumps before our lower body dynamic effort day and max effort? or just ME?

70

ALso when it comes to back work I believe my back is holding me back with my bench. I would usually do Kroc rows on ME day and lat pulldowns or chins on DE day. Can I do BORs on ME day, kroc rows on speed day then chins throughout the week in extra workouts

71

@STB or anyone who has experience with adding in non-powerlifting shit.

Question 1) I find my hamstrings are my weakest link. Is doing GM and dead variations enough variation to use them within 2-weeks of eachother? If not, what squat variations should I use? I was planning on adding in wide stance ME box squats, and zercher squat/dead since my round back lifting sucks. My current cycle kinda goes however I feel when I go in, but looks something like this:

Conventional pin good morning
Sumo 3" deficit axle deadlift
Sumo good morning
Conv. 3" deficit axle deadlift
Conv. good morning
Etc., until I decide to go back and break a record on one of the movements.

Question 2) I’m going to start training strongman events regularly. How do I incorporate those into my workouts during accumulation, intensification, transformation? Events that need to be trained: atlas stones, farmers walk, yoke. I use keg/bar carries, sprints, and tire flips as conditioning.

72
  1. Yes absolutely.

Personally I find that my hamstrings work a bit better with higher rep ME work or just accessory work. I try to make as much of my ME work squat related as possible.

  1. I’d set aside an event day - possibly sub out a DE lower day (if you’re good on speed). Choose 3 events to practice each time you do it then switch the next week.
73

[quote]Vladamir wrote:
ALso when it comes to back work I believe my back is holding me back with my bench. I would usually do Kroc rows on ME day and lat pulldowns or chins on DE day. Can I do BORs on ME day, kroc rows on speed day then chins throughout the week in extra workouts [/quote]

For a while, I did a basic BB style workout for my back because I felt it needed to some much work. Now, Ill do 2 rows on upper DE days and Ill do chins and pulldowns on Lower DE days. Rows are usually in the 4-8 rep range unless they are crock rows. Pulldowns and chins are usually higher rep range. Grips and variations are always changing from week to week, nothing is ever two weeks in a row.

Dows that make sense or did I just ramble for 5 minutes?

74

[quote]louiek wrote:
@STB or anyone who has experience with adding in non-powerlifting shit.

Question 1) I find my hamstrings are my weakest link. Is doing GM and dead variations enough variation to use them within 2-weeks of eachother? If not, what squat variations should I use? I was planning on adding in wide stance ME box squats, and zercher squat/dead since my round back lifting sucks. My current cycle kinda goes however I feel when I go in, but looks something like this:

Conventional pin good morning
Sumo 3" deficit axle deadlift
Sumo good morning
Conv. 3" deficit axle deadlift
Conv. good morning
Etc., until I decide to go back and break a record on one of the movements.

Question 2) I’m going to start training strongman events regularly. How do I incorporate those into my workouts during accumulation, intensification, transformation? Events that need to be trained: atlas stones, farmers walk, yoke. I use keg/bar carries, sprints, and tire flips as conditioning.[/quote]

  1. Yes and add in the zerchers if your back is a weak link.

  2. You have a couple of options depending on how often you can train. But, just using the same principals that have already been discussed in this thread and the last one:

Accumulation Block: All of your event training will be longer distances, lighter weights, and with limited assistive gear

Intensification: Shorter distances, heavier weights, less total volume, use gear

Transformation: Moderate weights at competition distance for speed.

You can add the events in pretty much however you want. I am only training for PL right now. Any event training I do is strictly for conditioning and only on off days. Adding in an even or medley after you get done, say, a DE lower body day could work well too. You will probably have to cut out some volume in your main workouts if you are going balls to the walls with the strongman training.

If you are planning on competing in strongman. I would suggest cycling training like this:

Week 1:
Day 1: Dynamic Lower
Day 2: Dynamic Upper
Day 3: Events

Week 2:
Day 1: ME Lower
Day 2: ME Upper
Day 3: Events

Repeat forever. I know this is very basic and not perfect but it is what I would do just to make the long term programming a little easier.

75

Alright finished my first cycle (3 weeks acc, 3 weeks int, 1 week deload, test). You told me in the last thread to post here how the testing goes so here it is :

-Squats : 155kg (30kg PR). Very happy with that, form was pretty solid, didn’t shift the weight forward like I did for box squats 3 weeks ago. Now I know I have to fix my box squat form though.
-Bench : 105kg (10kg PR). A bit disappointed with it because I floor pressed this weight 3 weeks ago and from what I’ve read my bench should be stronger. On the other hand, proportionnally, the progress seems normal so I don’t worry about it, I’m aware the bench progresses the slowest. I probably didn’t stay tight enough (especially lats) and didn’t use enough leg drive. Also a problem I have is bar path, the bar rarely touches the same spot, will come with practice I guess. Technique wise, the bench is definitely the lift that needs the most work for me.
-Deadlift : 170kg (30kg PR, 175 didn’t move at all). Great lift, right before the pull I noticed my right shin was bleeding a bit for the first time ever, I couldn’t help to smile haha. Starting to become a man. Grip strength would have been an issue for 175 so I’ll have to work on that as well. Will incorporate jumps and sprints next cycle, and do overall more volume.

So that’s a total 70Kg PR (154 lbs.) in 7 weeks! Note that these are “noob gains”, I didn’t use a belt on my old maxes (didn’t have one), and I have improved on technique a lot eventhough it’s still far from perfect.

So, thanks for this thread, your log, your blogs and your youtube channel, they help a ton! Will record myself next time I test as more experienced lifters probably would notice flaws in my technique that I’m not aware of.

EDIT : Also I gained 7kgs, and I was fasting “lean gains” style (16hours fast, 8 hours feed), training around noon. Hadn’t heard about carb back loading until you talked about it in your log, will denifitely experiment with it in the near future.

76

[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:
If you are planning on competing in strongman. I would suggest cycling training like this:

Week 1:
Day 1: Dynamic Lower
Day 2: Dynamic Upper
Day 3: Events

Week 2:
Day 1: ME Lower
Day 2: ME Upper
Day 3: Events

Repeat forever. I know this is very basic and not perfect but it is what I would do just to make the long term programming a little easier.[/quote]

many of my training partners are strongman competitors so i throw in a day with them once a while even though my main focus is powerlifting. due to work restrictions and work capacity and recovery abilities 3 days a week works good for me right now. i just push out the 4 day westside template to 3 days a week. and every other week i push another workout back a day to do event training.

it looks kind of like this:
sunday - ME lower
tues - ME upper
thurs - DE lower
sunday - event day
tues - DE upper
thurs - ME lower
sunday - ME upper
tues - DE lower
thurs - DE upper
sunday - event day
tues - ME lower
thurs - ME upper
sunday - DE lower
tues - DE upper
thurs - ME lower
sunday - event day
tues - ME upper

and on and on like that. after 8 weeks of that my squat went up 20lbs and my dead went up 30 and most of my strongman stuff went up too, like log press, stones and yoke walk.

i like the change of the usual and adding in some fun. that is what i see as my event day. fun day with my friends and doing something different. especially now that several of them are all about USAWA lifts.

77

[quote]Kraky wrote:
Alright finished my first cycle (3 weeks acc, 3 weeks int, 1 week deload, test). You told me in the last thread to post here how the testing goes so here it is :

-Squats : 155kg (30kg PR). Very happy with that, form was pretty solid, didn’t shift the weight forward like I did for box squats 3 weeks ago. Now I know I have to fix my box squat form though.
-Bench : 105kg (10kg PR). A bit disappointed with it because I floor pressed this weight 3 weeks ago and from what I’ve read my bench should be stronger. On the other hand, proportionnally, the progress seems normal so I don’t worry about it, I’m aware the bench progresses the slowest. I probably didn’t stay tight enough (especially lats) and didn’t use enough leg drive. Also a problem I have is bar path, the bar rarely touches the same spot, will come with practice I guess. Technique wise, the bench is definitely the lift that needs the most work for me.
-Deadlift : 170kg (30kg PR, 175 didn’t move at all). Great lift, right before the pull I noticed my right shin was bleeding a bit for the first time ever, I couldn’t help to smile haha. Starting to become a man. Grip strength would have been an issue for 175 so I’ll have to work on that as well. Will incorporate jumps and sprints next cycle, and do overall more volume.

So that’s a total 70Kg PR (154 lbs.) in 7 weeks! Note that these are “noob gains”, I didn’t use a belt on my old maxes (didn’t have one), and I have improved on technique a lot eventhough it’s still far from perfect.

So, thanks for this thread, your log, your blogs and your youtube channel, they help a ton! Will record myself next time I test as more experienced lifters probably would notice flaws in my technique that I’m not aware of.

EDIT : Also I gained 7kgs, and I was fasting “lean gains” style (16hours fast, 8 hours feed), training around noon. Hadn’t heard about carb back loading until you talked about it in your log, will denifitely experiment with it in the near future.[/quote]

great progress dude .

so you didnt run any type of transformation phase other than a one week deload ?

I just finished the deload , and I gotta say that Im chompin’ hard at the bit to max . so thanks for the post !

78

[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:

[quote]louiek wrote:
@STB or anyone who has experience with adding in non-powerlifting shit.

Question 1) I find my hamstrings are my weakest link. Is doing GM and dead variations enough variation to use them within 2-weeks of eachother? If not, what squat variations should I use? I was planning on adding in wide stance ME box squats, and zercher squat/dead since my round back lifting sucks. My current cycle kinda goes however I feel when I go in, but looks something like this:

Conventional pin good morning
Sumo 3" deficit axle deadlift
Sumo good morning
Conv. 3" deficit axle deadlift
Conv. good morning
Etc., until I decide to go back and break a record on one of the movements.

Question 2) I’m going to start training strongman events regularly. How do I incorporate those into my workouts during accumulation, intensification, transformation? Events that need to be trained: atlas stones, farmers walk, yoke. I use keg/bar carries, sprints, and tire flips as conditioning.[/quote]

  1. Yes and add in the zerchers if your back is a weak link.

  2. You have a couple of options depending on how often you can train. But, just using the same principals that have already been discussed in this thread and the last one:

Accumulation Block: All of your event training will be longer distances, lighter weights, and with limited assistive gear

Intensification: Shorter distances, heavier weights, less total volume, use gear

Transformation: Moderate weights at competition distance for speed.

You can add the events in pretty much however you want. I am only training for PL right now. Any event training I do is strictly for conditioning and only on off days. Adding in an even or medley after you get done, say, a DE lower body day could work well too. You will probably have to cut out some volume in your main workouts if you are going balls to the walls with the strongman training.

If you are planning on competing in strongman. I would suggest cycling training like this:

Week 1:
Day 1: Dynamic Lower
Day 2: Dynamic Upper
Day 3: Events

Week 2:
Day 1: ME Lower
Day 2: ME Upper
Day 3: Events

Repeat forever. I know this is very basic and not perfect but it is what I would do just to make the long term programming a little easier.[/quote]

Not sure if back is my “weak link,” though it may be next in line. My hams still get cramped up when I put heavy weight on them. But my round back lifting needs work so I’ll definitely add them in.

I’m not a fan of using cycled out weeks. I’d much rather get it all in in 1 week. And as far as I can tell, my work capacity supports it, so I’d like to just try adding in events like you mentioned, as heavy work after my DE, and RE after my ME.

Thanks!

79

[quote]marlboroman wrote:

[quote]Kraky wrote:
Alright finished my first cycle (3 weeks acc, 3 weeks int, 1 week deload, test). You told me in the last thread to post here how the testing goes so here it is :

-Squats : 155kg (30kg PR). Very happy with that, form was pretty solid, didn’t shift the weight forward like I did for box squats 3 weeks ago. Now I know I have to fix my box squat form though.
-Bench : 105kg (10kg PR). A bit disappointed with it because I floor pressed this weight 3 weeks ago and from what I’ve read my bench should be stronger. On the other hand, proportionnally, the progress seems normal so I don’t worry about it, I’m aware the bench progresses the slowest. I probably didn’t stay tight enough (especially lats) and didn’t use enough leg drive. Also a problem I have is bar path, the bar rarely touches the same spot, will come with practice I guess. Technique wise, the bench is definitely the lift that needs the most work for me.
-Deadlift : 170kg (30kg PR, 175 didn’t move at all). Great lift, right before the pull I noticed my right shin was bleeding a bit for the first time ever, I couldn’t help to smile haha. Starting to become a man. Grip strength would have been an issue for 175 so I’ll have to work on that as well. Will incorporate jumps and sprints next cycle, and do overall more volume.

So that’s a total 70Kg PR (154 lbs.) in 7 weeks! Note that these are “noob gains”, I didn’t use a belt on my old maxes (didn’t have one), and I have improved on technique a lot eventhough it’s still far from perfect.

So, thanks for this thread, your log, your blogs and your youtube channel, they help a ton! Will record myself next time I test as more experienced lifters probably would notice flaws in my technique that I’m not aware of.

EDIT : Also I gained 7kgs, and I was fasting “lean gains” style (16hours fast, 8 hours feed), training around noon. Hadn’t heard about carb back loading until you talked about it in your log, will denifitely experiment with it in the near future.[/quote]

great progress dude .

so you didnt run any type of transformation phase other than a one week deload ?

I just finished the deload , and I gotta say that Im chompin’ hard at the bit to max . so thanks for the post ![/quote]

STB : "You don’t need to do a Trans. Block because you don’t want to peak before you test in the gym. At no point in your competetive career do you EVER want your gym max to be more than your competition max.

Does that help?"

Just quoting him instead of trying to explain it myself and doing nothing more than paraphrasing :stuck_out_tongue: That was page 44 in the last thread. Glad to see my post motivates you a bit!

80

More questions.

  1. Everyone talks about working up to a heavy triple/double on their DE days if they feel good. Does this mean working up on straight deadlift as well as squat? In the same workout? Only one or the other? Do you ever go heavy on straight deadlifts? If you do, is it for singles, or a heavy triple? Only on non-comp stance deadlifts? Might be a very vague question but it’s something I wonder about since sometimes I feel like going heavy on my squats/deads, but don’t really know the protocols for doing so.

  2. A deadlift max is too taxing to pull every week. Why is it that? Shouldn’t a deficit deadlift max be just as stressful? If the exertion is the same, and it’s such a movement with the same knee angle using the same muscle, why is it that the deadlift will kill you, but pulling deadlift variations won’t? Or a good morning. It uses very similar form, so what is it about a straight deadlift max that really fucks up your progress?

  3. Somewhat connected to question 2. Deadlift maxes are too taxing to pull every week, while squats are not. Since I don’t squat and use my squat to strengthen my overall strongman capabilities, would it be okay to use competition style raw powerlifting squats for a max? I personally decided that it probably didn’t matter, physically/neurologically, if I squatted raw for my ME work, but the box squats just develop lifts better than a raw squat; therefore, use box squats. Is this right or there something I’m missing?

This system is obviously designed for powerlifters, and I’m cluttering it up with questions about a totally different sport, I realize that. But these are just some things I wonder about while trying to adapt my training. Thanks again to everyone for all their help.