[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
For the ME work, do ya’ll work up to a technical max or a grind the crap out of with form breaking down some max?[/quote]
I guess it would be a technical max for me. I don’t want my form going to shit and run the risk of getting hurt. Hope this helps
For clarification, the method being discussed here is Block Periodization, correct?
I can’t find any information on Accumulation, Intensification, etc blocks in Westside Barbell Book of Methods, which leads me to believe that the Westside Method is different from the Conjugate method, though they are similar in some aspects.
asp.elitefts.net/qa/default.asp?qid=173617
Jeremy Frey:
[i]Westside doesn’t include accumulation/intensification, etc. That is more Block Periodization training methodology. Within Westside, it not wrong to keep rotating ME lifts and reach a 1-3 rep max. SHOULD you cycle intensity within Westside and how it is laid out? The intensity is already somewhat varied depending upon whether you work up to 1 or 3 rep max.
Should you continue a Westside template or change where you are cycling intensity, volume, and training movements? That really is subjective and a personal choice. Don’t confuse block with Westside. There is a lot of information out there and it can get somewhat confusing.[/i]
I started doing Defranco’s version (WS4SB v3) as I’m not a competitive powerlifter; my goal is to become a strong mofo in general. I’m basically using the powerlifts as indicator exercises.
I replaced Defranco’s upper RE day with DE bench work.
What are your experiences with using conjugate vs block periodization? From what I gathered, the conjugate method is basically an extensive intensification block. Would I be wrong in assuming this? I only started reading more in-depth about these methods, so forgive my NOOBiness (I’ve only read through threads 1 + 2 once).
[quote]cmchan wrote:
For clarification, the method being discussed here is Block Periodization, correct?
I can’t find any information on Accumulation, Intensification, etc blocks in Westside Barbell Book of Methods, which leads me to believe that the Westside Method is different from the Conjugate method, though they are similar in some aspects.
http://asp.elitefts.net/qa/default.asp?qid=173617
Jeremy Frey:
[i]Westside doesn’t include accumulation/intensification, etc. That is more Block Periodization training methodology. Within Westside, it not wrong to keep rotating ME lifts and reach a 1-3 rep max. SHOULD you cycle intensity within Westside and how it is laid out? The intensity is already somewhat varied depending upon whether you work up to 1 or 3 rep max.
Should you continue a Westside template or change where you are cycling intensity, volume, and training movements? That really is subjective and a personal choice. Don’t confuse block with Westside. There is a lot of information out there and it can get somewhat confusing.[/i]
I started doing Defranco’s version (WS4SB v3) as I’m not a competitive powerlifter; my goal is to become a strong mofo in general. I’m basically using the powerlifts as indicator exercises.
I replaced Defranco’s upper RE day with DE bench work.
What are your experiences with using conjugate vs block periodization? From what I gathered, the conjugate method is basically an extensive intensification block. Would I be wrong in assuming this? I only started reading more in-depth about these methods, so forgive my NOOBiness (I’ve only read through threads 1 + 2 once).[/quote]
Yes. Your assumption is wrong. Here is an article written by Louie outlining the yearly training plan. It is not block periodization. It’s modeled after bulgarian training systems:
[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
For the ME work, do ya’ll work up to a technical max or a grind the crap out of with form breaking down some max?[/quote]
A daily max. The whole basis of max efforts is assuming that your preparedness will not be 100% at all times. All that matters on this day is moving the heaviest weight you are capable of. Obviously, the closer you get to a meet, the less you want to fail and the more PRs you want to break. This is why a seperation from training blocks is important to plan out. Something as easy as only 3rms in your accumulation block and only 1rms in your intensification block will make sure you are moving the heaviest weights closer to a meet.
For a previous user, you mentioned that the slingshot should be used as another ME variation.
As a raw lifter:
[quote]cmchan wrote:
For a previous user, you mentioned that the slingshot should be used as another ME variation.
As a raw lifter:
Can it also be used as an assistance movement? to overload the triceps.
Immediately after ME Bench Variation, can I throw on the slingshot and reach “slingshot PR”?
Should the slingshot be saved for the intensification only? or can it also be used during the Accumulation block as well?
Should the slingshot be used for DE benching?[/quote]
Yes.
Only do one ME movement per ME session. Every once in a while, for some overload work, its fine to throw on some reverse bands or the slingshot after a max but don’t make a habit out of it.
If it helps your competition bench, use it whenever and as much as you want
Only if you have an injury.
I just want to make sure I understand before I start on this program.
This is what I gathered from the entire 2 threads:
As a non-competitive lifter, I would do something like:
4 weeks accumulation, 2 weeks intensification, 1 week deload, and repeat.
or
5 weeks accumulation, 3 weeks intensification 1 week deload and repeat.
During Accumulation, I go for 3-5RM for ME movements,
and in Intensification, I repeat the same movements, but go for a 1RM.
For DE:
Accumulation:
DE bench: 20x3 sets with light bands for speed bench @ 40-50%, 30 secs between sets.
DE lower: jump training (maximum jumps),
followed by 20x2 sets of box speed squats @ 40-50% with light bands, 30 secs between sets,
followed by 20 singles of speed pulls @ 45-55% with mini bands, 30 secs between sets
ME Lower: perform light-moderate jumps before ME work
The goal here should be to beat records: time, total volume or both.
Intensification:
DE bench: 8x3 @ 50-60% with heavier bands (45 sec rest)
De lower: jump training (maximum jumps),
followed by 10x2 @ 50-60% speed box squat with heavier bands (45-60 sec rest),
followed by 8-10 singles of speed pulls at @ 45-55% with heavier mini bands (30 sec rest).
ME Lower: perform light-moderate jumps before ME work
This is all followed by assistance movements that target my weakness, using RE method during Accumulation, and going for 6RM during Intensification. Or, do timed sets with a movement targeting weakness (during accumulation phase). Avoid barbell movements for accumulation phases’s assistance work, unless doing RDLs.
Is this correct?
Should I remove the bands for the DE work during the accumulation phase?
For DE upper and speed pulls, I was thinking of using mini bands for accumulation, and using monster minis or even light bands during intensification. I’m still not sure which bands to use yet for DE box squats.
As for deloading after the itensification phase, would it be okay to just take 1 week off completely from training before going back to accumulation phase? I did this a lot when I was doing 5/3/1, and it provided me with a great mental break from lifting. I don’t know how this would affect my proceeding cycle in the Westside Method.
Thanks!
[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:
[quote]cmchan wrote:
For a previous user, you mentioned that the slingshot should be used as another ME variation.
As a raw lifter:
Can it also be used as an assistance movement? to overload the triceps.
Immediately after ME Bench Variation, can I throw on the slingshot and reach “slingshot PR”?
Should the slingshot be saved for the intensification only? or can it also be used during the Accumulation block as well?
Should the slingshot be used for DE benching?[/quote]
Yes.
Only do one ME movement per ME session. Every once in a while, for some overload work, its fine to throw on some reverse bands or the slingshot after a max but don’t make a habit out of it.
If it helps your competition bench, use it whenever and as much as you want
Only if you have an injury.[/quote]
thanks! 
How high rep should the assistance for your accumulation be? This is what an example would be for a DE bench day
DE bench with percentage/rest that I planned on using, rack lockouts, 10-8 for three sets and one minute rest, followed by rep maxes of a certain type of row at selected weight, (185, 205, 225, only using larger plates) then a pull up variation for very high reps for a total of 40-60 reps in four sets, then a upper back exercises (high pull or normally just a shrug variation) for high reps 15-25 for shrugs, and high rep curls/tricep extensions. The DE work’s percentage would be waved 60, 65, 70, then repeat the cycle with a shorter rest period.
For DE squat it would be similar plans for DE, followed by a high rep squat variation for three sets, and some type of posterior chain exercise (snatch grip rack pulls/deadlifts is what I am rotating currently) for five sets of 10 then some core work. Similar examples for ME days.
During the accumulation phase, when working up to a 5RM during ME, for example, do you do sets of 5 in each set?
like
5x135
5x185
5x225
5x275
5x315
5x365
5x405(PR)
or do you work up using singles, and then judging by feeling, go for a 5RM?
like:
5x135
5x185
3x225
2x275
1x315
1x365
5x405 (PR)
If my deadlift is weak off the floor, would it be wise to do deficit speed pulls on DE with bands during the intensification phase? if so, how many inches of deficit is recommended, and how would I adjust the percentage?
[quote]cmchan wrote:
During the accumulation phase, when working up to a 5RM during ME, for example, do you do sets of 5 in each set?
like
5x135
5x185
5x225
5x275
5x315
5x365
5x405(PR)
or do you work up using singles, and then judging by feeling, go for a 5RM?
like:
5x135
5x185
3x225
2x275
1x315
1x365
5x405 (PR)[/quote]
i usually work up in 5’s or 3’s depending on what I’m doing, i just like doing the extra work
What is the recommended split if I wanted to train on weekdays only?
I was thinking something like this:
Monday: DE Lower
Tuesday: ME Upper
Thursday: ME Lower
Friday: DE Upper
or
Monday: ME Upper
Tuesday: DE Lower
Thursday: DE Upper
Friday: ME Lower
I’m wondering whether Joe Defranco uses these phases in his WS4SB (Westside for Skinny Bastards) program. There is no mention of it in his articles. From what I see, his entire program is based on the intensification phase, and in some cases, is a combo of accumulation/intensification; throughout the program, the athletes go for a 3-5 RM, but can also choose to go for a 1RM in ME lifts. Assistance work varies, and can be done using DBs, BB’s, KBs, etc, which reminds me of the accumulation phase of the Westside Method.
Volume and intensity seems to stay consistent year-round on this program, in the sense that there are no blocks/phases with different intensities/volume. They seem to be in the intensification phase year-round.
Can somebody clarify? I’m currently doing version 3 of WS4SB ( Westside for Skinny Bastards, Part III - Official Website of Joe DeFranco & DeFranco’s Gym! ).
I assume this is because he is training athletes, and not powerlifters, and the GPP/conditioning work that would be done during the accumulation phase, is done during the athletes’ sports training instead.
What are the best conjugate method training books ya’ll have read? I’ve read through The Book of Methods and Jim Wendler’s The Max Effort Method each a few times.
[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
What are the best conjugate method training books ya’ll have read? I’ve read through The Book of Methods and Jim Wendler’s The Max Effort Method each a few times. [/quote]
Those two are probably the best around.
[quote]Reed wrote:
[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
What are the best conjugate method training books ya’ll have read? I’ve read through The Book of Methods and Jim Wendler’s The Max Effort Method each a few times. [/quote]
Those two are probably the best around.[/quote]
So aside from actually talking to Louie and training at Westside, I guess that makes these Westside threads here at T-Nation the other best sources.
I sure wish Louie was the writer that Wendler is. He seems like he was really scatter brained when he wrote TBOM. Don’t get me wrong, there’s a ton of information in there, but you really gotta dig.
[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
I sure wish Louie was the writer that Wendler is. He seems like he was really scatter brained when he wrote TBOM. Don’t get me wrong, there’s a ton of information in there, but you really gotta dig. [/quote]
Try talking to him in real life. It is bat shit insane the way his brain works.
[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:
[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
I sure wish Louie was the writer that Wendler is. He seems like he was really scatter brained when he wrote TBOM. Don’t get me wrong, there’s a ton of information in there, but you really gotta dig. [/quote]
Try talking to him in real life. It is bat shit insane the way his brain works.[/quote]
That reminds me of something that I think is relevant to the thread.
About a week ago, I had the opportunity to speak to a real live 800+ DLer in person. He’s also spoken to Louie on the phone. I know he’s legit because I saw him pull close to 700 with quite a bit in the tank while coming back from a back injury.
He said he used a modified Westside split. He said he almost never failed on ME lifts. He rarely went for a 1RM on exercises and usually went for a 2-3 rep almost to full max. Sometimes he would even go as high as 6 or 7.
He alternated between doing DE work and repetition work for the main lifts or very close variants. He like GMs for rep work but not so much for ME work.
Something else he told me is that he did very close variants of the powerlifts for ME days. He usually included the powerlifts themselves as ME variants about once a month. I forgot to pick his brain about why, but he changed the ME movement every week for lower and stuck with the same one for 2-3 weeks for upper body.