It seems in the US they are in for money. I see it with vaping which isn’t safe, but compared to combustible tobacco, it is very mild (outside of the US, studies put it at about 5 percent of the harm). To me, we should promote it as something smokers should switch to, but that isn’t happening, lots of fear mongering). I think money and ignorance are the drivers. Sure there are unknowns, but it have been around since 07. We have had about 20 deaths associated with it, but compared to the 500,000 deaths annually to combustible tobacco, it seems pretty benign.
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Get this… vaping is ILLIGAL in Australia and they’re trying to associate massive fines and jail terms associated with importation of vape liquid. Despite this the market is enormous, with just about every kid on my floor owning one of these vape pens; presumably as behind the illicit status hides an allure.
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The fear mongering and push to ban flavors just doesn’t make sense. They seem to be pretending that only underaged people want a blue raspberry flavor (yet, they don’t see any issue with blue raspberry vodka). To me, this product has the potential to save hundreds of thousands of lives per year. Research indicates that it is the number one thing that gets people to stop smoking combustible tobacco, and even more quit nicotine all together. Yet it seems they are trying to sow confusion. Making it unclear on the risks of each. It works too. I have heard many smokers doubt that vaping is safer, when the risk of consuming the same amount of nicotine through a vape vs a cig is like the difference between smoking 1 cig vs 20 cigs for harm.
My aunt and uncle are heavy smokers. I would guess 2 packs a day. I don’t think they will ever give up nicotine. My hope is to get them to try a vape.
The societal hypocrisy regarding how the alcohol industry is regulated vs the tobacco industry (in Aus at the very least) astounds me. There are some discrepancies between the two, I’d make the argument blue raspberry vodka still tastes rancid whereas a sixth grade kid can pick up a blueberry vape and enjoy it.
A more apt comparison would be vodka cruisers. Sweet drinks that taste almost identical to traditional soda, it’s fairly obvious this product has been and still is marketed towards teenagers. It’s the most common underage drink you’ll see teenage girls drinking over here.
Vape production needs to adhere towards strict regulatory standards, something of which isn’t happening within Aus. I have a few qualms about vaping, however in my mind the benefit/risk assessment vs combustible cigarettes blow any concerns I have out of the water.
I believe Australia will try go down a route of making tobacco a prescription only item whilst simultaneously criminalising vapes. This method will (in my opinion) backfire and serve to further clog up our courts, as those caught will face penalties. The direction by which our society is treading in is a VERY paternalistic one. I’m looking into leaving for good down the line, just need to be financially stable…
I think the issue here is there is plenty of adults that they are marketing to as well. I like those lemonade seltzer drinks. Taste just like strawberry lemonade (or whatever flavor you buy). I don’t think just because it is appealing to teens, that it is warranted to ban it all together.
The carbon monoxide concentration in their blood must be off the charts! Do they have heart disease, emphysema, COPD etc?
In case you hadn’t noticed, this is a bodybuilding forum.
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Hard seltzer drinks aren’t the same as these…
I don’t advocate for banning vodka cruisers. I do however advocate for cutting down on alcohol advertising on cable tv when shows meant for children are airing.
Aside from that, my agenda would stem from implicit personal bias; so I’d stipulate it wouldn’t be appropriate for me to call the shots. I find youth drinking culture to be one of the most obnoxious things ever. Particularly when a conversation goes on and on and on about the type of cheap wine that got you smashed last night…
I suppose this differs from the USA, wherein the culture exists and is JUST as obnoxious… But it’s kept on the down low until college as drinking at the age of say… fifteen generally isn’t accepted over there.
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None of those, but my uncle did have throat cancer. They about 60 now. I am hoping that I can discuss the vape with them. I believe that if I could convince them to switch, that the expected return would be 5 years each to their lives, and not as much sickness. I think the vape is a good tool to stop smoking as it feels like smoking (satisfies the habit portion of smoking) , gives a nicotine hit (satisfies the addiction side) like a cig.
Sure, they would be better off doing neither, but that isn’t happening IMO.
This is my position on the matter.
Only 100 calories. Less impact to the gut than that IPA (which I also love).
This is another aspect that irritates me… The empty calories… I’ve noted drinking beer/staying relatively lean doesn’t mix at all
It helped me but that was over 10 years ago when they were relatively new. The nicotine concentrations in the newer ones are absolutely bonkers. I briefly re-addicted myself to “just vaping” two years ago and found that my withdrawals were considerably worse than plain old Camel lights.
It also doesn’t help that you can do it discreetly and without smelling like an ashtray literally anywhere. At work, in the restroom, in your car, at the bar, wherever you are.
Taken as a whole, you can actually end up consuming far more nicotine than if your nicotine consumption was constrained by the modern non-smoking world. Sure, I could light up a Camel in my office and tell everyone who complained to fuck off, but I’d probably get fired at some point. It’s not like the good old days anymore, when the whole country was a flavor-filled smoking section of freedom except for three small booths over in the corner.
One qualm. There are kids who go through one non-refillable pod per day. That’s roughly as much nicotine as twenty to forty cigarettes depending on the strength of the pod. It also appears as if the withdrawals are far worse when associated with use like this.
As vaping is illicit here, young adults and adolescents alike aren’t always able to procure more after they run out. What happens when they run out? Some turn to cigarettes, now we’re back at square one. I doubt this would be an issue in the USA as your government isn’t retarded enough to make vapes illegal.
Should be noted it’s only illigal for someone to sell tobacco products to a minor… It’s not illigal for a minor to use them.
I believe we still have flavoured tobacco.
Actually I just looked it up… We do have flavoured rolling tobacco available for purchase (menthol, vanilla, blackberry, raspberry… oooooo coconut)
One can buy lower concentrations or even 0 nicotine concentrations too. I am not opposed to the strong stuff, because when a smoker switches to vape, it seems just as good or better than their old habit. Research indicates that nicotine is low on the list of harmful substances in cigs. Hopefully over time people reduce their nicotine.
I still think even if nicotine doubles, that one is way better off health wise compared to if they still smoked.
I would tell someone switching to keep their habits the same if they can. Meaning if they only smoked outdoors, to only vape outdoors. If they have an after dinner smoke, to have the after dinner vape, but not to be puffing on the thing all night on the couch (same goes for at work, go outside during your normal smoke breaks to vape, don’t puff the thing all day).
The push to ban vaping is coming from state governments who receive funds annually from big tobacco, based on legal settlements from years ago. If the tobacco companies go bankrupt, then the state governments will no longer get their payoffs. It’s a perverse incentive. They want you to keep smoking cigarettes, rather than the obviously less harmful vapes, so they can keep that revenue stream.
I wish I could find the article, but don’t have the time at the moment.
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Only if using nicotine though yeah?
Seen plenty of people use them here in Adelaide too.
And the lolly water… vodka cruisers, seltzers, yep basically flavoured soft drink so easy entry for those under 18 as it’s hard to detect any alcohol in there at all.
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@anna_5588, as an autistic individual, can you relate to a joke like this. I love these jokes, they remind me of how I used to think (and sometimes still do)
“Why is 6 afraid of 7?”
“It’s not. Numbers aren’t sentient and are therefore incapable of feeling fear.”
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Therein lies the problem. Republicans aren’t the problem, the republican politicians are. Most republican individuals I’ve spoken too are perfectly reasonable, very few people outright deny climate change, want the planet to burn or believe a child ought to be subjected to a strip search/arrested or locked up because he had one pill on him designated for personal use.
I’d also like to add, not all democrats are “woke”. A large portion of them are, but the more centrist/conservative leaning democrats tend to dismiss or reject the “far out there” ideologies.
I don’t like this either. The only time I’ve thought “this is okay” within regards to social media censorship was when twitter was putting FACT checks above Trump when he was tweeting conspiracy theories (like QANON). Other than that, I’m not for banning accounts or deleting posts because something an individual has said is offensive…
I’m going to be casting my primary votes for independent parties in the forthcoming federal election here. Probably liberal democrats (centre right libertarian party), HEMP party (protest vote/cannabis legalisation) or the reason party (arguably centre left libertarian party).
This is a byproduct of both sides, I’ll add more to this in my war on drugs thread and tag you.
I don’t mind the prospect of allowing more refugees in provided a vetting process is in place alongside some semblance of cultural integration as to make cultural acclimatisation easier for the refugee upon arrival.
I think even the rationale/narrative behind cannabis legalisation within the democratic party is misguided. They’re playing the race card, which was relevant back when the substance was criminalise to discriminate against Mexican’s and African American’s and perhaps current era disproportionate arrests for possession may have something to do with racial profiling… or it could be due to higher police presence in crime heavy neighbourhoods (where I’d argue the majority of arrests are occurring).
I’d rather see cannabis and arguably any substance less addictive/physically harmful than alcohol/tobacco legalised for a myriad of reasons, but race isn’t one of them. The hit/blow to cartels is my prime rationale, these guys are involved in some nefarious shit like human trafficking, assassinations, arms dealing etc. They’re responsible for so much death and destruction in South America, Mexico etc and this would be a fantastic way to reduce revenue within these syndicates thus reducing their power/grip on various locations, Some operate in countries wherein the penalty for use/manufacture or distribution is death. If that isn’t a deterrent, I don’t think anything is.
Police intercept a TINY fraction of product before it makes it to the streets (seriously, there are studies on this), and arresting our way out of the problem doesn’t seem to work. I’d rather a regulated market be apparent as opposed to the stories you hear of kids unknowingly handling fentanyl and dying, pure substance with exact dosage specifications = lower chance of overdose. The revenue incurred through sales (enormous) can be used to fund public education campaigns as to demonise say… cocaine like you would cigarettes as well as set up more proficient treatment facilities. I highly doubt many non users are going to start picking up hard drug use just because it’s legal, our cultural paradigm dictates such a hobby is unacceptable and people typically follow community guidelines.
Current data regarding drug law liberalisation worldwide backs the notion legalisation/decriminalisation equates to a slight downturn in youth consumption, slight uptick in older adult consumption. Youth consumption is the biggest concern associated with legalisation. Under any given framework, a substance should never be advertised and sold as a healthy pastime like booze is. Drinking culture, at least in Aus is abhorrent. Getting plastered 3-4x wk is genuinely considered acceptable by many, many aren’t aware consuming forty standard drinks per week is equitable to/more toxic that consuming a multitude of illicit substances. I have a coworker who drinks around 500-700ml of hard liquor every night (sometimes more) like clockwork but has never tried anything illicit. Under our societal constructs no one says a thing. The drinking affects his/her demeanour, this individual is unreasonably irritable and all he/she talks about is alcohol and getting drunk. He/She isn’t aware he/she has a problem, because alcoholism isn’t really talked about or acknowledged here.
Just because something is legal doesn’t equate to something being safe. Cigarettes and trans fats are illegal, though consumption of either should be and is discouraged. Making alcohol culturally engrained with just about every activity the way it is today IMO was a big mistake. Now we appear to be repeating this again with the framework by which America is legalising cannabis under, albeit I don’t believe the negative effects will be QUITE as extensive as the substance is considerably less destructive (even when abused) comparative to alcohol.
There is a good deal of public misconception and stigma surrounding drug use (good for the stigma, bad regarding ignorance/misconception), I don’t believe this will change simply due to legalisation.
Heroin maintenance therapy for lost causes/safe injection sites with routine screening works to reduce death rates/drug related crime. Crime can be mediated through an addict being unable to acquire enough product to maintain withdrawal, if someone SERIOUSLY can’t quit, methadone, buprenorphine or in the Netherlands (extreme cases) heroin maintenance eliminates withdrawal and a junkie can live a normal life. Routine screening ensures they aren’t “topping up” on the side.
The war on (many) substance deemed less harmful than alcohol or tobacco appears to be a war on perceived morality. “BuT lOoK aT tHoSe DeGeNeRaTeS!” “sips sixth beer of the night and takes a drag from cigarette”. My response is “but why? Why isn’t getting drunk three times per week considered degenerate behaviour? Taking a set dose of GHB or getting drunk is virtually interchangeable, albeit the one doesn’t last as long, doesn’t give the user a hangover the next day and only one has a sensationalised media narrative”. GHB is referred to as a date rape drug, but booze is used for this purpose far more often.
Legalisation may also pave the way for users/addicts to be more open and honest with their healthcare providers. Less worry about criminal prosecution may equate to more publicly seeking out treatment. I’m not pro use, though I don’t think it’d be a bad thing if the public were educated as to what various substances actually are and what they do. With the knowledge gained one now knows how to provide aid to an individual who is in a bad way as opposed to handling the situation badly resulting in someone getting hurt or needlessly dying. We have public education on alcohol poisoning/how to interact with a hostile drunk, yet very few know what to do when someone is having a bad trip. Having knowledge on how to react may very well save lives.
It should be noted, things would be better if people just didn’t take drugs. It’s really not that hard to just not take this shit (as @brickhead has stated earlier on here), but I suppose drug use is frequently a symptom of a larger underlying problem. People have their demons and some use drink or alternatives to try drown sorrows… but sorrows float…
Anyway, as per my rationale here, race doesn’t factor in. Using the race card as your only argument isn’t going to draw in conservatives. Imagine if I said “lets legalise heroin, brand it and sell it at supermarkets because arresting people for it is associated with racism”. WHAT? WHAAAT???
The reason these kind of laws irk me are due to the damage they ironically and unintentionally impose coupled with the sheer hypocrisy present with them. Reminds me of how Australia has criminalised vaping nicotine, yet cigarettes (the far more harmful alternative) are totally fine… It’s a BS double standard that for whatever reason criminalises the safer alternative. I frequently see the consequences associated with our toxic drinking culture coupled with our lack of insight/inadvertently harmful laws encompassing illicit substances because my particular demographic is the demographic where this crap is rifle.
Young adults shouldn’t behave this way… but they do… and our approach to this conundrum is leading to heightened rates of addiction, death with a very large portion of profits lining the pockets of terrible, terrible people.
Should note, my stance to many comes across as advocating for rampant drug use and the destruction of lives/our youth demographics future. I don’t see it this way, I see legalisation under my proposed framework as a means to reduce youth usage, cripple criminal syndicates whilst simultaneously providing a safe route for those who still wish to use. If along the way alcohol fell out of favour for something less toxic/destructive when abused (like it is… Rampantly by high schoolers and college students alike) then so be it.
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Also @twojarslave you might be interested to hear what’s been happening over the Isreali/Palestine conflict overseas.
Here we had free Palestine rallies en masse without much in the way of police presence. My brother went to a pro-Isreal (albeit not specifically anti two state solution) rally. Police on horseback, armed guards everywhere. Counter-protestors apparently came in droves looking for a fight, chanting “free Palestine” whilst police on horseback and in riot gear pushed them back.
It’s interesting as to how the one side wasn’t attacked during their protest, but pro-Isreal protestors apparently don’t deserve freedom of speech? We didn’t attack them for their protest, but we create a rally so we deserve to be beaten up?
This shit went down at Montreal with a pro Isreal rally once again no Jews attacked anyone during the MANY pro Palestine rallies in Montreal.
Surfaced footage in LA has popped up of a bunch of protestors attacking an unwitting, defenceless Jewish family at a resteraunt. The protestors are screaming “Alu Akbar” whilst they beat on these poor people running to their vehicles trying to get away.
I don’t understand how people can justify being such (excuse my language) cunts. WHERE in the quran does it state such behaviour is acceptable? If there is a hell, I hope a special place is reserved for people like this (people who form mobs to assault defenceless, peaceful protestors)
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