Civic minded people don’t want or accept violent drunks roaming about their streets. Visit a super zip or solid middle class town with well behaved people and show me how many drunk hooligans roam about.
Once again, refrain from making comments about my character. My interest in drugs is purely from that of a political perspective. I’m not a heavy drug user…
I wasn’t talking about you.
Fair enough… and we can agree to disagree. I feel tension mounting within this argument and I should say I’m not annoyed with you nor has this argument in any way shape or form altered my opinion of you. I hope the feeling is mutual
It is mutual.
That being said it’s very interesting to hear differing opinions and ideologies within this particular realm of political conflict. I harbour some very strong opinions regarding immigration I’m sure I’ll be attacked for (not by you per se, but by many).
Regarding harder drug use, the clinics etc… it’s a very tough one, I’m not sure what the right answer is/what to do. Mandatory rehab doesn’t work, neither does prison… and according to some (such as you and Chris Ottawa) rates of violence are high around the areas (I’ll admit I only went around there once during the day, and I didn’t like what I saw… nothing sketchy, but the scene made me uncomfortable)
I don’t know what the right answer is… but I do know prison isn’t right… For numerous reasons some people just want to get high. I’ve heard of stories wherein people berate paramedics for reviving them with narcan “you’ve ruined my high”… They were DYING, they would have DIED had they not been revived… at times I think “is there really a point here”.
They have undercover methadone clinics around here, one down the road from me in a strip mall in a pharmacy. There is a big pharmacy across the street and this little shitty one in the strip mall, I only ever saw some dirty looking people and junkies going in there and was wondering what was going on until someone told me they had a clinic inside. There are a couple clinics that openly advertise as such, but of course people in the neighborhood don’t want them around.
But that’s illegal black market stuff right? I’m not talking about TRT, I just remember you saying you were on Dbol.
Don’t they lock you up and charge you for being drunk in public still?
That is the question. But until recently, opiates weren’t a big thing. Before it was mostly crack, and the city was giving out free crack pipes. There was no safe crack smoking site, just in certain areas (around that shelter and a couple others) the cops turned a blind eye.
Yes, editing the rest of the response as I believe it was highly incriminating, detailed (regarding usage) etc.
Depends where you live, they’ve legalised this behaviour in my state last year on account of just how common it is (go to a football game… or a bar… or any club teens frequent (combination of drugs and booze here… and at the FB games)… or a music festival (more drugs than just about any other environment). I had to drive home from the last music festival I attended, so I was sober… I was called a fucking pussy by randoms because I wouldn’t smoke the marijauna being passed around (had to drive home)
The only tension that can arise is from recollection of drug users making my job difficult and unpleasant in the past and having to share public spaces with them and my safety at risk.
This reasonably shapes my thoughts.
My recollection arises from the friend I’ve lost due to drug use. We were inseparable for many years… then he transformed into a useless, selfish, shell of his former self… Did some things that were unforgivable, almost got me arrested… had I been arrested within this scenario a criminal record would’ve been certain… was like taking care of a child…
Then there’s the overdoses I’ve seen (booze, contaminated MDMA) and the behavioural alteration I’ve seen from those on high dose opiates, cocaine and/or benzodiazepines + booze… and just booze in itself (the worst contender is ALWAYS alcohol)
Despite having numerous negative experiences I don’t judge all that harshly. Probably because I’ve been that drunken idiot before pertaining to alcohol (though I’ve never had my demeanour altered to an extent that I’ve turned into the worlds biggest dickhead)…
Neither do I considering that some users turned to drugs to escape from their miserable circumstances, hopelessness and depression. For those I have nothing but sympathy. This doesn’t mean I think all drug users and poor people are the salt of the earth.
I think the real unthought of element here is WHY people turn to drugs. Those who are happy, even within the realms of experimentation don’t tend (not saying always) to get hooked. Those who are inherently unhappy with life, are looking for an escape. These people tend to be more prone to getting hooked and/or trying harder substances that no sane person would ever try (meth, heroin, crack) etc
I believe these substances tend to be abused as a tool to overcome emotional pain/prior trauma. The dangerous element is that they WORK, acutely… Until money has run out, you’re sober now but have created a potential laundry list of problems whilst under the influence… now you’ve got no money, the initial pain still exists, new problems and a drug addiction.
Perhaps it’s not as simple as this… However I can’t see why any SANE, happy, educated person would take heroin, crack etc… perhaps I’m just immature, perhaps there’s something more that I’m not seeing. I tend to have sympathy not for the consequence/suffering brought non by addiction itself, but for the element of “what did these people go through that brought them here”
Perhaps you’re not seeing that there are people who are simply pathological, reckless trouble makers in this world, who are and would be threats to others besides their drug use and that irresponsible drug use and vices are part of who they are generally.
I’m going to call it a night because it’s very late here. I do acknowledge this, but I don’t think it makes up the majority of these addicts. How am I to know which was the delinquent vs the person who was extensively raped by his/her father for many years, picked on in school and raised in a broken home? I just don’t, thus I give out a net level of sympathy for all suffering within the throes of addiction. I don’t merely dictate addiction to refer to drugs either
- eating
- gambling
- Compulsive disorders/desires… the intrusive thought subtype of OCD comes to mind, not an addiction per se, but not controllable and can be crippling
I have an equatable net level of sympathy for all depending on the level of severity/level of interaction it has regarding one’s ability to live out a normal life. Food addiction, despite the joke of “just put down the fork and start exercising” is no joke… All of these addictions act upon dopamine in particular (typically)… Dopaminergic dysregulation can induce profound behavioural/habitual alteration.
Even regular tasks such as shopping/spending money can become an addiction (and a rather crippling one if you’re not very rich)
There is really only one compelling argument that aided in the legalization movement in the US.
That is Money. Politicians like money. You can’t talk harm reduction and comparative analysis and you’ll get yawns and nexted until the cows come home.
If you want to get through to politicians you have to speak the language–money. Tax dollars. Business opportunity (licensing fees) and the thousand other ways that politicians generate graft.
All the other stuff like medical use, harm reduction blah blah blah is for the people to generate consensus and help themselves feel better. The actual decision making is done by a few people who stand to gain the most.
There’s the formula. Run with it.
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I understand the sensitive nature of that topic, it just seems that your stance on illegal weed sales is a bit hypocritical in light of the other issue.
That’s stupid. Maybe they aren’t super strict with enforcement over here, but if you are causing a scene and the cops are around you might get locked up.
True, but it’s a bad choice, life isn’t going well so you engage in even more self-destructive behavior. Things go from bad to worse.
I just lived downtown around too many junkies to have much sympathy for them. Some people feel bad about stepping on a bug, but if you lived in a place full of cockroaches you might start to see things differently. Same idea. Weed and moderate alcohol consumption are no big deal, but the other stuff is a problem in most cases. Since I also mentioned steroids, that is a different issue and I definitely think they should be regulated in some way because you can fuck yourself up if you don’t know what you are doing, quite a few high school kids get into that and suffer the consequences.
In most cases because people around them are doing it. I have been to parties where someone pulled out a bag of coke and everyone sniffed some except me, and they were like “what’ wrong, why are you scared?” A lot of regular middle class white “kids” (around 18-25 years old) got into coke a while back, not all got hooked on it but it was a common thing.
Also some people mix weed with crack and act like it’s not the same thing, but obviously that can lead to just smoking straight crack. I knew a guy who got into that, and one time he had no weed and was rolling cigarettes with crack, I guess he was too proud to put it in a pipe. Soon enough he did though.
I knew another guy who had a “job” of sorts that had him around a lot of scandalous type of women and he started doing coke with them. I guess he got hooked, but then one day he couldn’t get and powder, only crack, so he said fuck it and smoked a couple rocks, spent years in and out of jail and smoking crack when he was out. I think he’s in jail right now.
None of these people were traumatised or suffering or anything like that, they just started using drugs because it seemed like fun and fucked up their lives.
That’s correct. And as said, many drug addicts were careless, reckless, and impulsive people to begin with. That’s who they are. I have the experience of working in lousy towns and healthcare for a long time to know this. Many people do dumb things because they are unintelligent and impulsive. That’s it. I don’t think upstanding, responsible people and their children should have their safety and overall well-being infringed upon because of this!
@unreal24278 took it that I was attacking his character. I wasn’t. But he then said he might be immature. I think this is the case judging from his posts. He said if a job had supposedly silly rules he’d follow them because he’d be grateful to be paid yet he shows no such gratefulness to Western society for providing him with enough freedom to engage in various luxuries (bodybuilding and message board posting included) and social causes when much of the world has a hand-to-mouth existence because weed use is punished. Yes, perhaps it’s silly that weed use is punishable but alcohol isn’t. That’s besides the point I made, Which is not moot. Certainly obscene real estate prices in Australia and North America can infringe on ones self actualization, wealth, and family formation, but like, not sorry, A man isn’t oppressed because he can’t enjoy himself in any way he pleases.
Our ancestors must be laughing in their graves considering the amount of toil and hardship they went through just to live while we fret over our choice of fun.
@unreal24278 as you said, I think there are things you don’t see. You talk to men over double your age with homes, professions and children. Likely none of them give a rat’s ass about whether methadone patients are non-violent or not. What they will care about is if one opens up in their towns! Nor do they want violent drunks roaming about either, so to say ordinary civic minded people tolerate unbridled alcohol abuse is incorrect despite it being legal. You talk about societal issues through your lens. Uh, what about the rest of us?
This is not an attack on you. You’re free to criticize me in a peaceful manner too by the way. I’m not perfect.
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This is a good point against the “just legalize them” approach.
My neighbors are pretty hard core drug addicts/alcoholic. They’re scripted up so that they can get their favorites from a pharmacy, but also like to spice things up with some coke or heroin now and then. And you can always tell because that’s when the police and ambulance start showing up, whether it’s from the numerous od’s or straight up fist fights over drugs, it’s not good.
They lost the woman’s kids years ago when CYS showed up for a spot check later in the afternoon and the woman was absolutely smashed on a combination of substances. I came home from work to that. Getting out of the car with my at the time 3 year old son to hear what sounded like raccoons fighting and the county lady dragging the crying kids to her vehicle. Then the lights and sirens because there was an assault on an agent of the court…
And on and on.
Point being that a lot of people think that drug use occurs the way that they use, like a couple tokes here and there, at a concert or what ever. They don’t see the human tragedy that unfolds day after day until, and often after people die. I mention after because there is also a strong generational element to drug and alcohol consumption and abuse.
But hey, the neighbors-they’re just partying, if you ask them. And they are Totally trying to get their kids back. They have a thing next month… (for the past 4-5 years). Yeah.
And since they know a little bit of my history everything is “… as soon as we get clean…”.
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Exactly! Good post!
They’re very strict, but there is an insane amount of lenience regarding alcohol and alcohol only. Though we do have designated alcohol free zones, if you’re caught drinking within these zones you’ll cop quite a large penalty. If you’re caught bringing you’re own booze into a music festival you’ll cop a large fine… In Sydney, and Sydney only they took a very strict approach regarding alcohol/laws, it killed nightlife within the city entirely (look up the lockout laws)… just know Sydney isn’t representative of Australia, they’ve always been the strictest of the strict… the nanny capitol of a nanny state etc. The consequence that was induced upon the economy within Sydney, the reputation the city garnered etc was extensive, so much so that these laws were actually revoked this year.
Not exactly, I’ll link the literature but the gateway theory has been largely disproven. The reason some users of weed are more likely to turn to harder drugs is due to the fact that if you’re buying weed, you’ll typically be exposed to harder drugs through illicit black market dealers… somewhat another argument for legalisation. Cannabis itself doesn’t make people suddenly want to smoke crack, it’s environmental.
I don’t know about this. I’ve been around people using things that I’m not comfortable using and/or don’t want to use. I’ve been offered cocaine more times than I can count. As I’d specified in my prior message about the joint and the concert… If I don’t want to do something I’m not going to budge, this stems true even if I’m not sober. Perhaps this is an exception to the rule
Not sorry? With the continually rising real estate prices the middle/lower socioeconomic demographic will no longer afford to live here… the median home value in Philadelphia is 210,000… not 970,000… it’s simply no longer practical nor affordable to live within Australia besides perhaps if I were to go very rural. Even then, I live in a somewhat rural area (Farmland) and the value of our property comparative to when we brought it has increased exponentially.
It depends what we’re talking about… Immature in general, perhaps not. I’m autistic and with said autism the way I think and convey my varying ideologies differs from that of my peers. There are certain aspects wherein my level of maturity is light years ahead of my peers, other aspects (socially for instance) I’m quite a few years behind. Within my post I was referring to maturity on the basis of life experience. I base much of my opinion within science and MY anecdotal experiences, yet sometimes I forget that my basis of anecdote doesn’t compare to say someone who has been alive for 2-3x longer than I.
As I’ve stated, just because certain issues exist with near torn and/or countries under the rule or authoritarian regimes doesn’t mean that less pressing issues should be accepted. I do think it’s a moot point
I’ve talked to numerous men you’re age regarding this particular issue. Some see it within a similar vein to that of yourself, others are on board with my ideology. A member within my family for instance, despite being conservative is for the legalisation of “all drugs”, a stance I disagree with. His opinion stems from
- government revenue
- prison sentences not working
- a harm reductionist approach
The problem is drinking is a huge part engrained within Australian culture. Sometimes these drunks roaming the streets at night after a football game etc ARE the adults!
I’m well aware of the consequence that can stem from drug addiction. I’ve seen the consequence that can stem from heroin addiction in particular. I’m not for the legalisation of hard drugs. I’m for the taxation and regulation of softer substances such as marijuana, psilocybin, LSD, perhaps even MDMA, within a fixed dosage pure MDMA appears to be rather safe if used occasionally. I’m merely for decriminalisation regarding harder substances. If 6.2% of the Aussie populace has used ice and about 2% have used recently… should we lock up between 2-6% of the populace? No, it’s not something we can afford to do. Police ought to be going after the big fish, and even. then the supply will always be present… but instead here (actually in my state it’s a bit better… but in many states) they appear to be going after users. Wasting resources/tax payers money to book that one guy with a few grams of weed, half a gram of coke etc
I certainly don’t agree with the legalisation/normalisatin of ICE, but I know this pandemic… this plague on society is sweeping our nation, I wouldn’t be surprised if the statistics of use are even higher than this given the rapid rate at which usage has been increasing. So what do we do? How do we curb use. In NSW they’ve tried VERY heavy policing, indiscriminately targeting those who like to smoke a joint and those who use meth alike… this approach hasn’t worked, ice usage within NSW is at a record high