You sure about that?
That’s correct. But I also wouldn’t care if my few drinks per week was taken away from me. Totally wouldn’t care.
I don’t do this… if its a joint… and I don’t have to drive/have any upcoming responsibilities sure… but if it’s crack, something I’ve drawn a hard line with due to the inherent proarrythmiac effect/risk of sudden cardiac death upon use, the highly addictive. potential fo the drug etc… you couldn’t convince me unless I had a gun to my head.
Yes
http://www.emcdda.europa.eu/countries/drug-reports/2019/netherlands_en
In the Netherlands 22.5 percent of men reported using cannabis within the past year
Compare this with France (still illigal)
http://www.emcdda.europa.eu/countries/drug-reports/2019/france_en
29.1% of men have used within the past year
Drug use is dependent on environmental factors/culture. You’ll find the statistics regarding Australia/cannabis use are about the same comparative to the Netherlands given we have a very high rate of cannabis consumption per capita. The government lags behind public opinion harboured by the youth/middle aged adults. Recent use of any illicit drug amongst men in Aus is about 20%, said statistic being higher amongst younger men. (for those aged 14+ over 50% have used illicit drugs within their lifetime)
Alright, yet a society in which we lock up anyone consuming any type of recreational substance (say smoking a joint once per month equatable with those railing lines of coke, smoking meth etc daily) is inherently flawed. Profound issues come into play here. Those abusing methamphetamine frequently, going on binges etc are prone to stimulant psychosis, delusions… dopaminergic neurotoxicity over time induces significant cognitive deterioration. These people can legitimately be dangerous to generalised society. It’s not fair to lump those two together
Drug use is a detriment upon our society, however there’s different degrees of said use. I’m not going to compare PCP to caffeine
EDIT: If we refer to recreational drug use, caffeine falls within that list, its more habit forming than we give it credit for. Inherent normalisation has created a generation of adults who drink 5-8 cups of coffee daily despite the “safe” limit of caffeine intake being around 400mg per day… we’re talking about locking up a good 90% of the adult populace
That’s an interesting thought experiment. I’ll kick it around a little and come back to it later.
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I think anything beyond weed and alcohol is likely to be a problem. Some people think shroom and acid are not so bad, but some people go crazy from that stuff, acid can cause flashbacks, and doing too much of either can mess your brain up. I knew a few people back in high school that messed themselves up and were just totally spaced out all the time, a couple guys were only doing shrooms and never acid as far as I was aware. And yes, getting drunk to the point of causing a public nuisance is a problem too.
As far as hard drugs, outside of medical applications there is just too much potential for abuse, addiction, and overdoses. Harm reduction has some value, but unless the government is going to provide high quality coke, meth, heroin, etc. then there is always a high risk of harm because people don’t know what they are actually taking. Those sorts of drugs are not appealing to me at all, but unfortunately they are to other people and no amount of “education” is likely to change that. So what can you do? Either just accept things as they are or give ridiculously harsh punishments, like Duterte or the Saudis.
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I don’t mean that the whole society is just laying around smoking weed all day, but there are definitely groups of such people here and there.
That’s a fucking lot of coffee.
I think alcohol is a problem, look at the statistics relating to the amount off destruction incurred.
Look at this article, statistics regarding drug use and hospitalisation rates were created.
Furthermore drug harm scales created via statistical analysis frequently find magic mushrooms to be the least harmful substance available.
There is no evidence to my knowledge that suggests psychedelics can induce chronic psychosis within adults not predisposed to psychiatric ailment.
If I’m looking at the physical ailment a drug can induce, both acute and chronic we’ve got booze
ACUTE
- pancreatitis (potentially lethal)
- cardiac arrythimia, myocardial infarction (even in those unpredisposed… young men)
- hepatotoxicity/liver failure
- renal failure
- impaired coordination
- cognitive impairment
- injuries
- vomiting
- coma
- euphoria
- disinhibition
- psychosis
and more
Chronic
- fatty liver disease
- dilated cardiomyopathy
- kidney disease
- damage to esophoagal lining
- Wernicke Korsakoff syndrome (neurodegenerative disease)
- brain damage has been clinically shown to be evident even after occasional binge drinking. I’d stipulate the majority of the adult populace has some degree of booze induced brain damage
and more
Find me the same level of risk to be induced via acute or chronic shroom intake… a drug one can theoretically only take once every couple of weeks. The worst consequences I’ve EVER seen stemming from drug use (injuries, overdoses, bad decisions etc) have been alcohol related… and I’ve been around cocaine, opiates, benzodiazepines, MDMA etc
I get irritated when people think “well booze is okay”… because it’s one of the inherently more harmful substance we have available at our disposal. Furthermore a culture of binge drinking exists within Aus that’s just fucking awful… The argument “you can just have one drink”… you can also “just have half a gram of shrooms”, or a few drags from a marijuana cigarette.
Do you know what the actual prevalence of HPPD/flashbacks are? It’s about akin to saying “you shouldn’t binge drink because you can acquire pancreatitis”… it’s not significant enough to keep a substance unregulated, prohibited etc. As a matter of fact LSD was legal for a good 15 years
The estimate for HPPD is roughly 1 in 50,000 for those that FREQUENTLY and CHRONICALLY abuse hallucinogenic drugs
And yes, anecdotally I know of someone with an underlying predisposition who took LSD once, was never the same again. Just as I know of quite a few that become violent and entirely disinhibited after a few drinks (literally like 3-4 drinks), yet for them… drinking is still legal, and they still do it despite antisocial behaviour coming to fruition every single time they drink
I don’t think it was chronic psychosis, these guys just got all weird and spaced out. I knew few guys who started doing shrooms almost every day, they were getting them real cheap, and after a while it’s like their personalities changed and they just became weird. Of course very few people would want to take shrooms daily, and it’s not addictive either as far as I am aware.
Maybe you have a point with alcohol. I don’t think that heavy drinking is good at all, but a few drinks now and then is no big deal. Of course not everyone will limit themselves to just a few drinks.
I don’t do this… if its a joint… and I don’t have to drive/have any upcoming responsibilities sure… but if it’s crack, something I’ve drawn a hard line with due to the inherent proarrythmiac effect/risk of sudden cardiac death upon use, the highly addictive nature of the drug etc… you couldn’t convince me unless I had a gun to my head.
“significant tolerance is known to occur with repeated use of psilocybin, the development of physical dependence does not occur”… by significant tolerance, it’s straight after the first use. Unless these people had the money to be taking 100g/day after a week or so, a psychedelic experience wouldn’t be garnered. Takes about two weeks after first use to be able to “trip” adequately from the same dosages again. Given shrooms in Australia cost about 75-100$/trip, it’s not feasible… Priced adequately when regulated I see no reason why it’d be heavily abused, nor do I think many would be using as I can personally attest the recreational value isn’t particularly up there with say… alcohol. Within public environments besides a micro dosage (in which case impairment is minimal) it’d be quite overwhelming. Should be noted I used these legally in Amsterdam… if I’d used illicitly in Aus I wouldn’t say as I don’t feel like further incriminating myself
Yes, I know of one who had complete ego death, forgot who he was etc… the effect was acute, didn’t last very long… I wasn’t with him at the time though because I legitimately had nothing to do with the drug use present during this adverse reaction, though I’ve seen bad trips… numerous bad trips, typically occurring within those predisposed to psychiatric disorder and/or those dropping high dosages of acid in crowded, erratic environments… absolute stupidity. I only feel its necessary to exclaim I’ve seen this before as I’d otherwise get the rebuttal “but you have no idea how terrible the reactions can be”
I’m not condoning drug use, nor am I stating it’s safe… it isn’t, inherent risks are always present, the same can be said with prescription medications. I merely believe compared to booze the harms aren’t as extensive for many substances, that a harm reductionist approach should be taken, current regulations in place are disproportionate… especially for those substances of a softer nature.
Esp in Aus, the binge drinking culture is horrific here. Though a new study
Indicates there is NO level of drinking that doesn’t deleteriously effect health. Ethanol is a poison, and quite a potent one at that. Meta Analysis have limitations, however I’m inclined to believe ethanol in particular is highly poisonous to the body. I don’t judge those who drink, I drink on occasion, I’ll even get drunk on very special occasions…
But most weeks I average zero standard drinks
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There are groups of that here too… Living in a state wherein cannabis possession is still a crime more serious than a misdemeanour, the level of stoners present within this community is astounding. With the per capita usage already so high, I don’t think rates of usage will increase post legalisation. The ACT legalised cannabis this year, we will see what the statistics indicate down the line. I know if you’re caught once, you can get away with a diversion… but if it’s over a few grams (you might still get the diversion)… but you’re going to court.
Go to Nimbin NSW, the town is crawling with stoners/hippies… I’ve heard similar stories regarding Byron Bay… though with Nimbin the cops have recently decided to get involved… somehow with police involvement/sniffer dogs and whatnot dealers turned to meth, methamphetamine has now ravaged the town (those interviewed stated it was easier to transport without getting caught)… what was a peaceful hippy haven for many decades has now been destroyed upon the basis of police interference. Initially there was a “truce” of sorts… but the police eventually found it necessary to bust these pot smokers minding their own business. Under the Berejiklian government, Nimbin now has the luxury of having a fairly heavy police presence. Road blocks set up to randomly drug test drivers, trying to pin them on smoking a joint days ago etc… this still hasn’t stopped the town from having a reputation for cannabis. A festival is held every year wherein supposedly cannabis is openly sold… arrests are made, but few and far in-between (riots would probably occur if they were made en masse given the nature of the yearly festival)
In Canada data indicates a generalised trend of increased usage has occurred since legalisation, but the trends were typically nonsignificant, like 1-5% increments. With usage amongst females if I recall correctly not budging at all.
I know about Nimbin because every true Australian knows about Nimbin… it’s an urban legend of sorts… a rumour of an Amsterdam in Australia… but unlike most of which are steeped in bullshit, this one stems true
For the drug-allowing community I thought punishment for murder was implied.
Oh, I thought we were stating no punishment could be made relating to drug use.
If Caffeine is included (which it should be, it’s the worlds most widely used, unregulated psychoactive drug that has the ability to induce dependence) then the majority of adults are getting locked away.
I’ve stated why I don’t think this would be a good idea, aside from the ethical concerns… Lumping together those who drink coffee/very occasionally smoke cannabis and/or drink the occasional beer with hardened crackheads seems like a recipe for disaster. Though this kind of societal experiment has been present within Portugul… and it appears to work
Granted this isn’t legalisation, it’s decriminalisation/harm minimisation.
One can disagree with the notion of drug use being decriminalised/legalised or harm minimisation strategies being implemented on the basis of personal anecdote/experience… but literature generally indicates a harm reductionist approach to be the most effective
For drug use or lack thereof, yes. They do drink coffee though.
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In the farcical community, only coffee will be allowed. It will be considered a food item. Only drug allowed.
But why, it’s addictive, habit forming and does have some degree of detriment (staining of teeth for one) within those who use it. It’s hypocritical to allow coffee but bar substances considerably less addictive
Not hypocritical at all. People can fashion their nations or communities in anyway they want. Eg: Saudi Arabia. Coffee allowed. Everything else, no.
I don’t believe tobacco is illegal in Saudi Arabia either
Honestly… I get the feeling a rebellion would eventually be mounted upon those who heavily abuse hard drugs due to the societal detriment they bring with them. This is a community composed of those who HIGHLY value recreational drug use, thus the community would be disproportionately composed of those who are hardened drug addicts (perhaps 20% of the entire community will be crackheads/meth addicts etc)… I get the feeling they’d be wiped out, this experiment was trialed within Christiana Freetown, initially heroin etc was sold OTC, but due to the level of detriment associated with heroin addiction it was later altered to pot, hashish and according to who you ask… shrooms
Only those who preached the values conveyed within the experimental hippy haven resided within the town. Aside from recent police interference, the toleration of soft drugs appeared to be a relative success.